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KRModels announce a GT3 Model


micklner
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Please bare in mind that bits of this information is poor at best and sketchy at worst. Its not been easy to find said information, but we have worked with what we have got.

 

The interior cab lighting, this has been confirmed to be red. The GT3 when it was alive and kicking did have red cab lighting. 

 

Lighting while engine is moving backwards - The GT3 does have directional lighting (and this is now fixed on the 2nd run), but the GT3 never ran backwards. It never had that ability to do so, it only ever moved forwards. At the time, we had no data to confirm or deny that the GT3 had directional lighting, nor was it easy to find any such information at all. 

 

Lighting while engine is moving forward - The headcodes lights are meant to be white, obviously. The lights underneath the headcodes currently are white, while the lights on the tender buffer beam is red. We haven't found any information informing us otherwise. If any concrete documentation does come out confirming that they are in fact meant to be red, then we will happily correct our mistake. 

 

If you have any questions regarding the matter, feel free to ask them and i'll do my best so answer them. - Michael

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15 minutes ago, KR Models said:

Please bare in mind that bits of this information is poor at best and sketchy at worst. Its not been easy to find said information, but we have worked with what we have got.

 

The interior cab lighting, this has been confirmed to be red. The GT3 when it was alive and kicking did have red cab lighting. 

 

Lighting while engine is moving backwards - The GT3 does have directional lighting (and this is now fixed on the 2nd run), but the GT3 never ran backwards. It never had that ability to do so, it only ever moved forwards. At the time, we had no data to confirm or deny that the GT3 had directional lighting, nor was it easy to find any such information at all. 

 

Lighting while engine is moving forward - The headcodes lights are meant to be white, obviously. The lights underneath the headcodes currently are white, while the lights on the tender buffer beam is red. We haven't found any information informing us otherwise. If any concrete documentation does come out confirming that they are in fact meant to be red, then we will happily correct our mistake. 

 

If you have any questions regarding the matter, feel free to ask them and i'll do my best so answer them. - Michael

Thanks Michael for this update. Guess I will stick with the red cab lights and the white lights under the buffer beam if that is the best info to hand. You mention that the directional lights will be fixed on the second run. How will this be represented, even though the GT3 did not run backwards? It would also be useful if the tail lights could be switched off when coupled up to rolling stock. Will that be possible with DCC on the second run?  I very much appreciate what you are doing to deal with the small corrections on the second run. I have been so impressed with the model that I have ordered ANO but with having a first run already if there could be a set of instructions for upgrading to the same level as the second run that would be great.

David

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21 minutes ago, 96701 said:

Surely the loco must have been able to reverse, otherwise how would it be coupled to anything?

 

I think he said it never 'Ran' backwards. I took this to meen it never pulled a train backwards rather than reversing to couple up to a train to then 'Run' forwards. I could be wrong of course :rolleyes:

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28 minutes ago, Matt C said:

 

I think he said it never 'Ran' backwards. I took this to meen it never pulled a train backwards rather than reversing to couple up to a train to then 'Run' forwards. I could be wrong of course :rolleyes:

 

No - he said "..... it only ever moved forwards .....".

 

I would like to see any evidence or documentation to support this incredible statement!

 

John Isherwood.

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2 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

No - he said "..... it only ever moved forwards .....".

 

I would like to see any evidence or documentation to support this incredible statement!

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

Well John He said both. But I really can't be bothered with debating the nitty gritty, I can read it one way, you can read it another. I gave a possible explanation, you shot it down.  I really have better things to do than play ping pong this time of night

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So how did it exhibit a red light to the front if it didn't have a built in red light (or lights) on the front?   I see no sign of any lamp brackets on which to mount an oil tail lamp in order to give a red light at the front but I might have missed it.

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6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

So how did it exhibit a red light to the front if it didn't have a built in red light (or lights) on the front?   I see no sign of any lamp brackets on which to mount an oil tail lamp in order to give a red light at the front but I might have missed it.


but the GT3 never ran backwards. It never had that ability to do so, it only ever moved forwards - do keep up Mike!!  :rolleyes:

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7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

So how did it exhibit a red light to the front if it didn't have a built in red light (or lights) on the front?   I see no sign of any lamp brackets on which to mount an oil tail lamp in order to give a red light at the front but I might have missed it.

How about this scenario.

The GT3 did not 'run / operate at speed' in reverse but slow speed yard and coupling movements were clearly needed and this was done via the reversing gear (thanks No Decorum). For these small movements the lights may have been the same as for forward running? In which case the lights (front white and rear red) would remain ON. Is that better than no lights at all which would be the case as there are no 'directional' lights fitted.

This is why I asked the question earlier. How are the directional lights which have been fixed on the second run represesented (as there are no white lights on the rear and no red lights on the front?)

I have done a simple fix (for DCC) with the F20 button via function mapping which will keep lights the same for forward and reverse (only if selected). I also asked how to turn the rear reds off when coupled up as this would be the most useful fix. I expect this need a wiring change.

David

 

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7 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

ENGLISH ELECTRIC GT3 1961

 

That's a very nice engine standing next to it, shame the one on the train got in the way ;)   

 

2 hours ago, Not Captain Kernow said:


but the GT3 never ran backwards. It never had that ability to do so, it only ever moved forwards - do keep up Mike!!  :rolleyes:

Ah, thanks for that reminder - i really should believe every word I read :jester: 

However just to help the younger generation keep up it wouldn't need to run backwards in the event of having to comply with, for example,  Rule 180 - one of several which required a train to carry a red headlight (sort of like the ones on all the Pilot Scheme diesel electrics  although the Western did it a different way for their red lights on the hydraulics).  

And of course both 18000 and 18100 had a built-in red light at each end (and, just like the GWR diesel railcars) such lights were not permitted to substitute for a proper tail lamp).

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1 hour ago, Graham_Muz said:

ENGLISH ELECTRIC GT3 1961

 

 

Thank you - confirmation of what most of us already knew!

 

I have tried to give KRModels the benefit of the doubt, and have supplied them with photographic material to assist their researches, but when they repeatedly come out with this kind of inane statement is does beg the question as to whether they undertake even the most cursory checks before making wild claims.

 

Why not just admit to a 'c*ck-up' when it comes to the lighting of the first batch of GT3s, (amongst others), rather than make stupid statements which have been easily shown to be 'fake news'?

 

I'm afraid that these proclamations do them no favours whatsoever.

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Whilst talking lamp irons and lamps, the twin lamp irons on the rear appear to be missing, but also those rear marker lamps look a bit oversized and wrongly positioned (too high and too far in). Or is that just me on that one? (Photo borrowed from https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93125-building-a-better-gt3/page/5/&tab=comments#comment-2855983)

There's also a hole missing in the tender frame at the very rear, as shown in the attached and more clearly here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/39921992981

Edit: Clear photo of twin front lamp irons here: https://fft-keymodelworld.b-cdn.net/sites/keymodelworld/files/styles/article_body/public/inline-images/hm163_reality_pic 2_lr.jpg?itok=ouipiVQf

 

post-27-0-54321200-1505511868.jpg

Edited by 69843
Additional link of front lamp irons
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I must get lamp irons fitted when the new buffer beam arrives. Staples I understand are suitable. I can't see that I'll ever fit a lamp to either of them, though so maybe not.

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, 69843 said:

Whilst talking lamp irons and lamps, the twin lamp irons on the rear appear to be missing, but also those rear marker lamps look a bit oversized and wrongly positioned (too high and too far in). Or is that just me on that one? (Photo borrowed from https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93125-building-a-better-gt3/page/5/&tab=comments#comment-2855983)

There's also a hole missing in the tender frame at the very rear, as shown in the attached and more clearly here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/39921992981

Edit: Clear photo of twin front lamp irons here: https://fft-keymodelworld.b-cdn.net/sites/keymodelworld/files/styles/article_body/public/inline-images/hm163_reality_pic 2_lr.jpg?itok=ouipiVQf

 

 

Thanks for that and Interesting to see that, fortunately, it did at some time have the lamp irons which it should have had (they don't seem to show on some photos - maybe they blend into the background too well to show on a photo?).    It would have course obviously needed a lamp iron somewhere on the friot end in case it had to be hauled at any time tender first or even if it was running light tender first on a running line..

 

That linked photo might well have been taken at Marylebone so they could well have been provided fairly early in the loco's life.

Edited by The Stationmaster
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The login "Chris P Bacon" sounded amusing when I registered, How would I know everyone would call me "Chris" from then on. . . . .Dave

Are you sure your name's Dave, Rodney?

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Let's face it, it is pretty obvious that any loco has to go in both  directions. It is fundamental to railway operation.

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2 minutes ago, 96701 said:

Let's face it, it is pretty obvious that any loco has to go in both  directions. It is fundamental to railway operation.

may be the wording was grammatically misinterpreted, and subsequently used against common sense logic.

 

Going both ways yes, did it operate trains both ways, probably not... and particularly in the case of gt3 as prolonged reverse running wouldn't give the loco the airflow it needs.

 

However it does detract from the point... it had red tail lamps on the front for those situations (such as running LE from depot to station and vv)... so the model should have them in red ( not white). Whether they were ever used is a completely different point.. indeed the only LE images Ive seem it had a standard tail lamp placed on it.

 

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8 hours ago, adb968008 said:

may be the wording was grammatically misinterpreted, and subsequently used against common sense logic.

 

Going both ways yes, did it operate trains both ways, probably not... and particularly in the case of gt3 as prolonged reverse running wouldn't give the loco the airflow it needs.

 

However it does detract from the point... it had red tail lamps on the front for those situations (such as running LE from depot to station and vv)... so the model should have them in red ( not white). Whether they were ever used is a completely different point.. indeed the only LE images Ive seem it had a standard tail lamp placed on it.

 

This all seems so logical. Before I start with colour changes, rewiring and CV changes it would perhaps be great to come up with a plausible solution before snipping any wires.

a) Red instead of white lights on the front above the buffer beam, for short movements in reverse (even if not used in practice). Normally OFF, would come ON in REVERSE as part of directional lighting function.

b) Ability to turn tender tail lights off when running forwards (operational) and coupled up to stock

c) Assume a standard white oil lamp used on a lamp bracket on the tender when in reverse? Would this be done in practice? Could do with some advice on this one but in reality for the odd occasion when this is done on a layout we are hardly likely to take lamps on and off!

 

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5 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

 

c) Assume a standard white oil lamp used on a lamp bracket on the tender when in reverse? Would this be done in practice? Could do with some advice on this one but in reality for the odd occasion when this is done on a layout we are hardly likely to take lamps on and off!

 

Yes.

You have to zoom in, but it has a tail lamp on the left hand side

 

(Not my image /url link below)

gt3.jpg

 

On the model, the lights are on when forward and reverse (unlike the disc lights which are only on forwards).

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31 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Yes.

You have to zoom in, but it has a tail lamp on the left hand side

 

(Not my image /url link below)

gt3.jpg

 

On the model, the lights are on when forward and reverse (unlike the disc lights which are only on forwards).

Thanks for your help with this and the pic. Must get those lamp brackets on. They appear to be painted the same colour as the body so difficult to see sometimes.

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