Signalist Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Following The Great Model Railway Challenge there have been a lot of people commenting on how nice the 350s looked on Walford Towers - and what were they! I tell people what they are and where I got them. At the time it was possible to buy 350/2 and 450 models in shops, but not 350/1 which were still available on a popular auction site brand new at a reasonable price. But move along six months and unless you want a 2-BIL which are still available brand new for a very reasonable price and a few recently introduced main line EMUs it is very hard to get hold of any EMUs new at all. Have manufacturers given up on making EMUs? Has the golden age ended? Or has there been an event that has resulted in panic buying! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted November 21, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2018 Just a case of having to buy them when they are released, nothing hangs around too long nowadays. If you don't get 'em at the time you have to wait until a second run or resort to second-hand sellers. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted November 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2018 Agree. It has always struck me as mad that 25kV OH Locos have been available for decades but without accompanying EMUs or (Since Tri-ang pulled theirs) UK based OH catenary gear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reevesthecat Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 The junctionbox.net still has a 350 (plain Livery) for £120 other than that I haven't seen any. To be fair they hung around for years then had some deep discounts (paid £79for one of mine) to clear remaining stocks although the 450 seems to have sold while in the main keeping its value. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted November 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2018 The 350 is what... 6 years old now? That there are any left suggests they weren’t all that popular! Shame, as they’re great models. I think the n gauge ones suffered for needing 3 decoders in a 4-car unit, but I understand the OO gauge one had through-connections. EMUs have the potential to be ideal for many modellers - you don’t need loops, or turntables or anything. You can run a ‘full length’ set in a modest space. But they’re just a bit utilitarian and dull in the main for many I suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted November 22, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2018 The 350 is what... 6 years old now? That there are any left suggests they weren’t all that popular! Shame, as they’re great models. I think the n gauge ones suffered for needing 3 decoders in a 4-car unit, but I understand the OO gauge one had through-connections. EMUs have the potential to be ideal for many modellers - you don’t need loops, or turntables or anything. You can run a ‘full length’ set in a modest space. But they’re just a bit utilitarian and dull in the main for many I suspect. Another snag is cost all at one hit if buying a unit. Example the 4TC, which is on my long-term wish list, you can't buy it a coach at a time like you can any other train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I understand the OO gauge one had through-connections. Yes, my pair each have 1 decoder which controls everything, including directional lighting. I always believed that the problem with AC EMUs is as just mentioned, their length. Most DMUs run as 2 or 3 car sets, so the most popular model is 2 cars. Most AC EMUs are 3 or 4 cars, which makes them expensive when compared to a (more glamorous) express loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrel Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I still dream of the day when someone announces a RTR class 303. That said I would probably go bankrupt within 24 hours of release as I want one in every livery they ever carried. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted November 22, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2018 I wondered about the expense, but then we're seeing lots of super expensive special editions which sell well, and whilst the cost is taken in one hit it's lower than (say) a loco and a rake of coaches or wagons plus a loco, particularly if you look at the modern scene. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Just a case of having to buy them when they are released... Rather think this applies with extra force to MU's of all types, especially given current production difficulties. Even in an easier situation a discrete loco or vehicle that needs 'a manufacturing slot', can be sent to retail immediately it is produced. Crudely, a four car MU requires four such slots to be coordinated to get the full set to retail. And one problem with one tool on one of the MU vehicles is the whole job hung up, The production manager really short of capacity will actively argue for the smaller jobs as economically most beneficial to the business because of reduced risks of this sort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Following The Great Model Railway Challenge there have been a lot of people commenting on how nice the 350s looked on Walford Towers - and what were they! I tell people what they are and where I got them. At the time it was possible to buy 350/2 and 450 models in shops, but not 350/1 which were still available on a popular auction site brand new at a reasonable price. But move along six months and unless you want a 2-BIL which are still available brand new for a very reasonable price and a few recently introduced main line EMUs it is very hard to get hold of any EMUs new at all. Have manufacturers given up on making EMUs? Has the golden age ended? Or has there been an event that has resulted in panic buying! AC Models of Eastleigh (no connection what so ever) have a 350/1 on E-Bay right now for £189.95 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Most of the older SR emu's, 2 Bil, 2 Hal, 4 Vep, 4 Cep, 2 Epb seem readily available on ebay, although I don't know how the modern types fare as they're out of my period. You can buy a new blue 2 Hal from Hattons for £62. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signalist Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 I would love a 4-TC and a Metropolitan electric to go along with the S-Stock, but we are looking at a 4-car unit where the coaches work out at over £70 each, along with a £64 loco. The S-stock is an 8-car set which is even worse for those short of space (they don't appear to have produced a 7-car S-stock yet which would not be much smaller). I guess that the lack of availability is just that we are in a period when manufacturers are doing something else with their scarce manufacturing capacity. Nice to know that there are still a few EMUs available. The price you have to pay when buying online has gone up a fair bit in six months though. With the cost of stock nowadays an extra £40 for a couple of decoders in the driving trailers of an N-gauge unit is becoming chicken feed! Probably not an easy job putting conductive couplings in N-gauge. No excuse not to fit conductive couplings in the S-stock though - that is unforgivable. Would be a good idea for manufacturers to make some of the 3-car EMUs for a change. 313/507 and 320 would be possible still leaving the door open for the 4-car 314/315/508 and 321/322. I think they have done most of the 2-car units seen in recent times. I thought that the 350/1 might be more of a hit being dual voltage, 313 would perhaps have a bit more appeal for the same reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PaulCheffus Posted November 23, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2018 With the cost of stock nowadays an extra £40 for a couple of decoders in the driving trailers of an N-gauge unit is becoming chicken feed! Probably not an easy job putting conductive couplings in N-gauge. Hi The N Gauge Pendolino by Rapido / Revolution Trains has conductive couplings so not impossible. Cheers Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 I thought that the 350/1 might be more of a hit being dual voltage, 313 would perhaps have a bit more appeal for the same reason. The problem with 350/1 is that it seldom (if ever?) uses third rail in normal scheduled operating circumstances, so sales for third rail users are pretty much under Rule 1, plus the 'because it looks nice' brigade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 The problem with 350/1 is that it seldom (if ever?) uses third rail in normal scheduled operating circumstances, so sales for third rail users are pretty much under Rule 1, plus the 'because it looks nice' brigade. When new, the 350/1 units regularly used to work through to Croydon, but I believe they stopped when Southern's 377s became available. The collector shoes themselves have now been removed although the beams were there last time I looked. It is not a part of the unit I often take notice of. That opens up another opportunity though; a 377/378 which have or do work on the MML & WCML as well as on 3rd rail south of the Thames have a reasonably wide sphere of operation. A few 319s run on the southern section of the WCML now. I understand that some of them have been transferred north too, so they are no longer restricted to Bedford-Brighton. Would be a good idea for manufacturers to make some of the 3-car EMUs for a change. 313/507 and 320 would be possible still leaving the door open for the 4-car 314/315/508 and 321/322. I think they have done most of the 2-car units seen in recent times. I thought that the 350/1 might be more of a hit being dual voltage, 313 would perhaps have a bit more appeal for the same reason. 314 is a 3 car unit, not a 4 car. Even better. 318 is also a 3 car version of a 317/2. I am sure there are other differences between the classes, like window arrangement but surely this can be catered for in the tooling design? It is one thing for modellers to speculate as to what will sell well, but another for manufacturers to be sure that they are a sound investment. And also because a model will make money, this does not mean it is the best thing to make. Would you choose to make something which makes a small return for investment (an EMU) or a larger, less risky return of investment (another steam loco). It will in most cases be the larger, less risky venture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) That opens up another opportunity though; a 377/378 which have or do work on the MML & WCML as well as on 3rd rail south of the Thames have a reasonably wide sphere of operation. A few 319s run on the southern section of the WCML now. I understand that some of them have been transferred north too, so they are no longer restricted to Bedford-Brighton. Of no interest to me currently, EMUs are evidently an untapped resource for future RTR as many have commented. And here, I reckon the right varieties are in your crosshairs. DC, AC and dual-voltage, Electrostars (357, 375, 377, 378, 379 and 387) are so widespread and prolific plus they work to Milton Keynes, run in 3, 4 and 5-car formations in a variety of liveries for half a dozen or more operators (see below) and will spend 33 years in the public eye, most probably. That must feature in any would-be manufacturer's business case. 357 Essex Thamesside (C2C) 375 South Eastern Trains 377 Southern/ Thameslink 378 London Overground 379 Anglia 387 Thameslink, GWR, Essex That's 7 isn't it? And onto the 319s - whilst at Thameslink they had several liveries, of varying attractiveness, but crucially including the popular NSE, and as they worked south of the river from the late eighties they can justifiably run alongside NSE diesels and slam door units. Their new use on Northern and imminent introduction as electro-diesels in various places will, I think, make them a very attractive proposition in model form. Edited November 23, 2018 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 I wonder if sometimes this is what holds the hobby back from younger modellers. Yes, steam looks nice, and has lots of moving parts, but I would have thought the younger generation aren't really interested in such locos, but want modern units to run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted November 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2018 357 Essex Thamesside (C2C) 375 South Eastern Trains 377 Southern/ Thameslink 378 London Overground 379 Anglia 387 Thameslink, GWR, Essex South-eastern has a number of 377s also, in addition to the above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signalist Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 We are seeing some quite nicely turned out EMUs nowadays too. The refurbed 321s are quite striking, and like the 350s make an attractive train that might work well in a train set which is where many start of course. I am just hoping that the (nearly) empty shelves is because they have all ended up in Christmas stockings! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottest Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Oh dear, I could so easily downgrade this, until now, useful thread to yet another wishlist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) Another snag is cost all at one hit if buying a unit. Example the 4TC, which is on my long-term wish list, you can't buy it a coach at a time like you can any other train. Trouble is, even though you can buy one coach at a time for loco-hauled trains, you still run the risk of whichever ones you leave 'til later/last selling out before you get to them. For most of us, something like a TC requires saving up for, ideally before release rather than after. I achieve that by setting a monthly modelling budget but resisting the temptation to buy nice but off-interest models when there's nothing I really want around. I set aside the unspent cash so there's usually a couple or three hundred available when a must-have turns up. John Edited November 24, 2018 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2018 We are seeing some quite nicely turned out EMUs nowadays too. The refurbed 321s are quite striking, and like the 350s make an attractive train that might work well in a train set which is where many start of course. I am just hoping that the (nearly) empty shelves is because they have all ended up in Christmas stockings! As others have said, if we don't "jump" when something we want is released, and it proves popular enough to sell-out quickly, we're stuck with either paying a premium price to get one via eBay or waiting for another batch to be made. The latter may take quite some time as the manufacturer will already have allocated their production slots, for at least a year ahead, to other products. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signaller69 Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 I still dream of the day when someone announces a RTR class 303. That said I would probably go bankrupt within 24 hours of release as I want one in every livery they ever carried. Having more or less finished my DC Kits one, I'm amazed no RTR manufacturer has announced one yet, as that is usually what happens when I build a kit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Budgie Posted November 24, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2018 And also because a model will make money, this does not mean it is the best thing to make. Would you choose to make something which makes a small return for investment (an EMU) or a larger, less risky return of investment (another steam loco). It will in most cases be the larger, less risky venture. Well Hornby made the class 800, a 5-car unit, with the cars longer than your average BR Mk.1, in two versions, and I assume it sells. They also made the Brighton Belle, another 5-car unit, although it is sold in two parts, in four different versions, so I assume they sell too. So why won't anyone make a 4-car Electrostar? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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