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Don't look too hard and it could be a D15 Brake Third ....


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Here's the roofwork......

 

Starting point:

31467922467_5ceb06f797_z.jpg

 

Reinforced from below [before clerestory section razor-sawed out]:

31467922887_b65846a3ba_z.jpg

 

Clerestory removed and gap packed out from above with 2mm card:

44590529020_354fcf5905_z.jpg

 

.010 plastic sheet overlayed and endlessly scraped/sanded back with primer sprayed in between to check progress:

44590528820_8970971c79_z.jpg

 

Near final finished state with one or two very small areas of dressing still to attend to:

31467922967_4c120e1e47_z.jpg

 

It's near to impossible to completely remove all signs of the overlay and I wouldn't want to do too many of these but the finished product has a nice profile and fits perfectly. Once sprayed matt black it'll be fine.

 

Tony

 

That's a very neat job, Tony! Better than mine.

 

Dana

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....and finished, just awaiting a couple of sprays of matt black. The gas lamp tops are scavenged and cut-down Ratio LNWR ones and the ventilators are slightly cut-down from the same source [an old roof saved in the bits box]. This has been a satisfying job, not something which I'd care to repeat too often [as I've said] but one which provides an achievable solution to the problem of finding a neatly fitting roof which will hold its own shape without under-bracing. I'd recommend it too, taking my usual view that if I can do it, anyone can! But that said, had Dana not lit the fuse, I'd probably not have bothered.

 

32626774918_53a8529f43_z.jpg

 

Tony

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Hi Tony......... they come supplied flat and you cut them to length and width and form the profile to your needs, looking at the profile it would appear you would only have to form both edges, should be okay, as I said I have used them before and use them at all times now as a matter of choice......sorry I have not replied before as I was away in the Emerald Isle for holidays.......Dave.....

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  • 4 weeks later...

Apologies Dave - I missed your post [above]. I found them extremely difficult to cut lengthways and probably would need to make sort of jig if I was to proceed with them again.

 

The roof has been put to use at last. More shameless plagiary from RosiesBoss, This time, and given the inherent shortcomings with the Triang Clerestory body, a fair old bash at an ex-Cambrian Composite coach. I will tone the wheels down in due course. The bogies are MJT side frames on MJT coach compensation units. It is astonishingly - even annoyingly - free-running, it just won't keep still for photographs and found some depressions in the club's test track that nobody knew were there!

 

45957689625_5325559c13_c.jpg

 

I'll add, too, that a couple of coats of 'Klear' on SEFinecast flush glazing results in a far more glass-like effect.

 

Tony

Edited by Prometheus
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Thanks Tony. I have a set of the same bogies that I was going to put under an old Mainline Siphon and was going to use the same L shaped trick with the older screw on type coupling. I noticed the NEM pocket they do for their rigid bogies on their site the other day, so have also been contemplating how they could be adapted.

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Apologies Dave - I missed your post [above]. I found them extremely difficult to cut lengthways and probably would need to make sort of jig if I was to proceed with them again.

 

The roof has been put to use at last. More shameless plagiary from RosiesBoss, This time, and given the inherent shortcomings with the Triang Clerestory body, a fair old bash at an ex-Cambrian Composite coach. I will tone the wheels down in due course. The bogies are MJT side frames on MJT coach compensation units. It is astonishingly - even annoyingly - free-running, it just won't keep still for photographs and found some depressions in the club's test track that nobody knew were there!

 

45957689625_5325559c13_c.jpg

 

I'll add, too, that a couple of coats of 'Klear' on SEFinecast flush glazing results in a far more glass-like effect.

 

Tony

 

Some years ago I came across some reasonable representations of Cambrian coaches which used Ratio Midland coaches. When I say reasonable, painted in Cambrian green they looked OK if you weren't too bothered about the details. Think they were based on the Midland suburban kits. Painted in choc/cream they'd probably look OK as well.

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  • 10 months later...

I have long since had a soft spot for the old Triang clerestories, no doubt due to my first train set being a very secondhand Lord of the isles set back around 1976. Somewhere I saw an M&SWJR brake 3rd made from a Triang brake 3rd, does anyone know about that one? If so, is there anything on the net re the conversion process? I have recently cut up two damaged brake coaches as per the articles on the GWR modelling site to make a 4 wheel brake and a scale (ish) length C22 all third. Whilst some purists may be sniffy about them, they are crisply moulded and provide options for those of us who like to be creative and cannot afford etched kits to make early and obscure stock. Perhaps I should have chosen a different career path to impoverished artist as I have expensive hobbies such as model railways, vintage motorcycles, girlfriend etc. (I know she won't read this! ;)

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3 hours ago, wagonman said:

 

The All Third is by far the more successful model as the MSWJR coaches were MR designs – even the ones built new (with electric lights – so the Ratio kits are a much better starting point. Really need better bogies though.

 

Which Ratio kits do you have in mind? I don't know about MSWJR carriages built new to Midland designs but the ones obtained second hand were Clayton arc roof carriages of the 1880s - the GWR style panelling of the Triang clerestories or Ratio 4-wheelers. The Ratio Midland suburban carriages have Bain's 20th century style of panelling with a noticeably deeper waist panel.

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20 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Which Ratio kits do you have in mind? I don't know about MSWJR carriages built new to Midland designs but the ones obtained second hand were Clayton arc roof carriages of the 1880s - the GWR style panelling of the Triang clerestories or Ratio 4-wheelers. The Ratio Midland suburban carriages have Bain's 20th century style of panelling with a noticeably deeper waist panel.

 

I had assumed we were talking 'impressionism' here. The Ratio kits  give a better likeness, depth of waist panel notwithstanding, than anything exGWR. The end step arrangement, the general proportions, and the grab handles for starters. 

 

If you want accurate models I'd suggest Bill Bedford's etches...

 

 

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Thanks for the information everyone. The MSWJR coach looks like it needs a fair bit of hacking to achieve. Well, seeing as I have a few otherwise useless bits lying around and I have your input, I better get on with it! This is reminding me of when I had a frame, gearbox and rear wheel for a 1946 350cc BSA and a mate said"I've got a front wheel, forks and a petrol tank. All you need is an XB31 engine and a few small parts..." Two years later I had four of the dammed bikes.

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There are of course etched brass kits available e.g. 51L/Wizard for the Midland carriages sold to the M&SWJR in 1909 to 1920 - 43 ft thirds D490 and third brakes D502. I don't think there is a kit for the 40 ft composite brakes D528.

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I've had a good look at the photographs, worked out a sketch plan and taken a razor saw to one and a half old clerestory bodies that would otherwise be just junk. Nothing to lose really, other than a few hours and a few more marbles. It's coming along slowly. Ratio LNWR bogies have been sourced, assembled with a modicum of "task appropriate profanity" and fitted with metal wheels out of the junk box. I have also butchered the original clerestory roof as per the pictures on here and its not too painful! Everything now needs filling flatting, painting and probably a good deal more profanity. I'll try getting a picture of it loosely assembled.

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The all third has cut and shut Hornby clerestory bogies from Peter's Spares on ebay. The V5 is as per the GWR modelling article and the brake third is left over bits from building the MSWJ brake, running on the whitemetal bogies it came with. A hell of a lot of detail work to do yet and I do have another scruffy clerestory in LNER livery that might just become that D15. Once all that is done I should have more than enough passenger stock for my layout. AND if I go past them flat out on the BSA whilst Miss R.R.Hood takes a photo of them from her pillion perch, using the phone she's dropped a dozen times, nobody will notice the bodging or inaccuracy...

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8 hours ago, MrWolf said:

"task appropriate profanity"

 

Phrase filed away for future use - thanks!

 

It sounds as if you have both old Triang bodies in choc & cream and Hornby 1980s/90s bodies in faux LNER teak. I've found the latter much pleasanter to work with - the plastic cuts more easily and is less brittle.

 

I did once try making an 8-compartment clerestory third - C10-like (though I believe it's the wrong width) - but owing to a miscount at the cutting stage, I ended up with a freelance 7-compartment third...

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The C10 was the first attempt, followed by the 4 wheel V5. I started off with a Triang GWR brake and a Hornby Midland liveried brake, neither of which had bogies or glazing (thereby saving room in the bin) You're right through, the later bodies are of a different plastic compound. The other two are nailed together out of another original Triang and an LNER teak brake that had been painted in GW colours. The old Triang coach material has a kind of skin, under which the plastic is similar in appearance to Bakelite. I have found that the easiest way to join the parts with solvent since the removal of all the er, interesting chemicals from it such as Trichloroethylene is to cement plasticard reinforcements behind the joints. Crude, but necessary. As for the profanity, that phrase is down to the behavior of my other half, who claims to swear only when it is really needed. This of course is complete rubbish but because of her thoroughly "Jolly hockeysticks!" accent any such angry outburst at bicycles, cars and mostly computers causes uncontrolled juvenile amusement among my friends. As for the 7 compartment, the man who has never made a mistake, has never made anything. I just ripped out several compartment dividers as I had fitted them one window too far forwards. :/

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