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Andy Y

Rapido announce Metro Cammell Weymann Fleetline Bus

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Our pleasure!

 

It was fun having the Fleetline in the hall, and it was a convenient place for us to have meetings. 

 

The designs are not finished yet, but we will be doing several fronts - early indicators, later indicators, and later indicators with no vents. We also intend to do other buses using the chassis and interior of the Fleetline but with new bodies. 

 

It will be a while before these come out. The buses don't actually make us much money - I am doing them because I love them. So we squeeze them in between other production runs. We want to get the Guys out before we properly announce the Fleetlines with all details and samples. 

 

-Jason

When I saw Fleetline I got very excited, but alas it’s a brummie one (good for brummies though) . I’m hoping from what you say Gareth that Scottish Bus Group Lowbridge “D” Type bodies would feature . Possibly more widespread geographically than a West Midlands one . It’s long been a gap in the market. I think there were a few similar NBC ones too

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But, and it is a big but, the operational opportunities are none.  Even if your idea of the ideal model railway is just having trains go around in circles you have a choice in trains to run - different engines, different rolling stock - which isn't part of the tram scene.  As for the common shunting layout...

 

 

Actually I've toyed with the idea of a layout based on the approached to St Paul's tram stop on the Midland Metro where it runs alongside the Jewellery Line through some fabulous GWR build brick lined cuttings, and not just because I worked on both projects.  You have a variety of units working the Jewellery Line over the years, some freight, some steam, even the more recent Chiltern loco hauled stuff, a confined space, an intensive service on both routes - it would make the perfect exhibition layout.  Even normally sniffy GWR kettleistas might be tempted to look if one of Tyseley's copper kettles put in an appearance.

 

So, if anyone fancies making either the Ansaldo "bag o' nails" T59 or the latest CAF Metro trams, I might just have a go.

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That model looks as though it's going to be absolutely superb, well done guys.

Way out of my area, but I could still be tempted. Perhaps it's time for a bus scrapyard or dealer diorama, then I can justify any bus on it...

Just a footnote, although LML rebadged these as Leyland Fleetlines once production moved from Coventry to Leyland they are still referred to as Daimler Fleetlines on the log books and (former) tax discs.

 

In fact if you look at the front axle bearing caps on this or any Fleetline, you'll see a 'D' Daimler scroll cast into it.

Edited by E3109

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Our pleasure!

 

It was fun having the Fleetline in the hall, and it was a convenient place for us to have meetings. 

 

The designs are not finished yet, but we will be doing several fronts - early indicators, later indicators, and later indicators with no vents. We also intend to do other buses using the chassis and interior of the Fleetline but with new bodies. 

 

It will be a while before these come out. The buses don't actually make us much money - I am doing them because I love them. So we squeeze them in between other production runs. We want to get the Guys out before we properly announce the Fleetlines with all details and samples. 

 

-Jason

absolutely fantastic news this is. me and my mate have been waiting for a model of this bus for years. and very happy you are doing the latter variants aswell as early, and possibly the similar Park Royal bodywork version to the MCW (?).

I just hope you do all 4 main liveries; origional WMPTE blue & cream, West Midlands Travel blue & cream (80's), west midlands travel grey and blue (approx 1988-1992), and then the final Red stripe version.

There are also many 2nd hand operators who bought these off WMT, some had large fleets such as Andrews of Sheffield, North Western, Merseyline.

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absolutely fantastic news this is. me and my mate have been waiting for a model of this bus for years. and very happy you are doing the latter variants aswell as early, and possibly the similar Park Royal bodywork version to the MCW (?).

I just hope you do all 4 main liveries; origional WMPTE blue & cream, West Midlands Travel blue & cream (80's), west midlands travel grey and blue (approx 1988-1992), and then the final Red stripe version.

There are also many 2nd hand operators who bought these off WMT, some had large fleets such as Andrews of Sheffield, North Western, Merseyline.

 

Pretty sure the only difference of significance between the Met Camm and Park Royal bodies was the little gutter strip over the emergency escape door at the offside down the back. I think the Park Royal gutter was close to the top of the door whereas the Met Cammell was higher. Very inconsequential I would say, but there may be other identifiers I have not seen.

 

Here is Met Cammell 6905 with the high arch over the emergency door, and a no vent front panel 

http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/Fleetlines/6905.html

Here is Ex WMPTE 4300 with the Park Royal rainstrip over the emergency door

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.wixstatic.com%2Fmedia%2F20a0e1_45a0018934e34c4eab32e5c31d1cab7c~mv2.jpg%2Fv1%2Ffill%2Fw_588%2Ch_385%2Cal_c%2Cq_80%2Cusm_0.66_1.00_0.01%2F20a0e1_45a0018934e34c4eab32e5c31d1cab7c~mv2.webp&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackprincebuses.co.uk%2Fdaimler-fleetline%3Flightbox%3DdataItem-jeeihiad1&docid=OcMPg8IpijF_WM&tbnid=iYlZViJG3R0uhM%3A&vet=1&w=588&h=385&bih=612&biw=1280&ved=2ahUKEwjJm4Kpm_PeAhUrLcAKHRvXB9o4ZBAzKFYwVnoECAEQVw&iact=c&ictx=1

 

 

While in this thread may as well as post some links for alternative liveries

Ex WMPTE 4265 with Black Prince

http://www.blackprincebuses.co.uk/daimler-fleetline?lightbox=dataItem-jeeihiad1

Ex WMPTE 4300 with Wilsons

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.wixstatic.com%2Fmedia%2F20a0e1_45a0018934e34c4eab32e5c31d1cab7c~mv2.jpg%2Fv1%2Ffill%2Fw_588%2Ch_385%2Cal_c%2Cq_80%2Cusm_0.66

Ex WMPTE 4556 with Kinches

https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwmbusphotos.com%2FNXWM%2Fgonebatches%2FFleetlines%2Ftwm4556rm27.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwmbusphotos.com%2FNXWM%2Fgonebatches%2FFleetlines%2F4556.html&docid=NCbWTmKVTTbMyM&tbnid=prTGTYFRdzeXnM%3A&vet=12ahUKEwin8YifoPPeAhULJcAKHfsaAQg4yAEQMygKMAp6BAgBEAs..i&w=991&h=676&itg=1&bih=612&biw=1280&q=WMPTE%20fleetline&ved=2ahUKEwin8YifoPPeAhULJcAKHfsaAQg4yAEQMygKMAp6BAgBEAs&iact=mrc&uact=8

Ex WMPTE 6448 with Midland Fox

http://midlandred.net/vehicles/photograph.php?operator=mre&type=fleetline&fleet=6448&image=1

Ex WMPTE 6482

http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/Fleetlines/6482.html

Ex WMPTE 6456 as a Little Devils party bus !!!!

http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/Fleetlines/6456.html

EX WMPTE 6414 with Stuarts

http://wmbusphotos.com/NXWM/gonebatches/Fleetlines/6414.html

Edited by Covkid
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Where then are all the models in this massive model tram market then?  Certainly haven't seen any discussed here on RMweb, haven't seen any model tram layouts discussed.

 

Bit of a chicken and egg situation. If there were more UK prototype r-t-r tram models available, I am sure that we would see more tram layouts (and tram lines on model railways). They are quite successful in mainland Europe where at least five manufacturers have done r-t-r trams of various eras and there have also been cheap plastic kits.

 

As to the economics of production, I am not sure what the demand for premium models would be. But go anywhere in Portugal and you will see less detailed tram models being sold in souvenir shops. Tram chassis were fairly standardised so it should not be too difficult to put them out at an attractive price.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell

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Sounds like the good old days.

 

When Tri-ang-Hornby were asked: Why don't you make more Southern locos?

Answer: Because nobody models the Southern.

 

Then asked: Why does nobody model the Southern ?

Answer: Because nobody makes anything to model it with.

 

Thank goodness that situation changed.

 

RB

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Great prototype, inspired choice from a good team, well done!  It's high time the 1970s 'Brummie Standards'  were recognised in model form to this high standard!!!

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Great prototype, inspired choice from a good team, well done!  It's high time the 1970s 'Brummie Standards'  were recognised in model form to this high standard!!!

But you're biased.... :yes:

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But you're biased.... :yes:

 

I was channelling Jim Smith-Wright mate!  :sungum:

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Great prototype, inspired choice from a good team, well done!  It's high time the 1970s 'Brummie Standards'  were recognised in model form to this high standard!!!

When EFE produced their version of the Selnec/GMT Northern Counties 'Standard' they didn't do a particularly good job, in my opinion the Dinky version is much better, apart from the toy wheels and the fact that it's dual door, which meant only 50 or so buses could be modelled.

The EFE version didn't differentiate between the earlier versions and the later light alloy types, dimensionally they're the same but vastly different in appearance. To make matters worse, the only version they do is an AN68 Atlantean yet they used the same casting to represent Fleetlines too.

Suffice to say, I didn't buy any. This WMPTE offering by Rapido looks absolutely superb, any chance you could do a GMT Standard too at some point fellas?

They will fly off the shelves I'm sure. And like the WMPTE buses many of them found second homes after GMT and deregulation, there were over 500 surplus GMT buses after deregulation and these were sold all over the country. A handful made it to Hong Kong too, like the DMSs before them.

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It’s interesting how Bus interests gravitate around the major conurbations, London, Manchester, Birmingham. But people seem to forget the National Bus Company (NBC) who operated all across England and Wales, it the fiftieth anniversary of the formation of the NBc next year). Plus the BET Federation and Tilling Group Companies before the NBC.

 

So would be nice to see some decent models not made from Mazak of:-

 

Bristol Lodekka (F series) / ECW

Bristol RELL series 2 (RELL3) / ECW

Bristol RESL series 2 (RESL8) / ECW

Bristol VRT Series 1 / 2 / 3 / ECW - and NBC Standard with 3000 series 3 built, just short of a thousand series 2 built

Leyland National Series 1 and Series 2, 10m & 11m variants. Single and dual door.

Leyland Olympian 9.5M / ECW lowheight 13’ 8” body - NBC Standard to replace the VRT, nearly a thousand built.

Leyland Leopard 11M / Plaxton Supreme III and IV bodies

Leyland Tiger 11 or 12 M / Plaxton Paramount 3200 bodies.

 

It would be nice if someone did plastic kits of these like Airfix kits. Suppose I can dream on lol.

Edited by richierich
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Another vote for the GMT standard. There were not the best vehicles to drive!

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I'd suggest as the next project that an 11m Mark 1 Leyland National in single and dual door would cover pretty much the whole country, and we do lack a decent model of one.  Apart from the very early dual door examples, which mainly seemed to come as 44 seat examples in a highly standardised format, and of course the difference in original versus later style heating pod, the single door Nashers really only differed in seating layouts, most NBC 11m buses having 49 seats with a luggage pen over the nearside wheel, and many PTE buses having 52 seats with a four seat bench over the nearside wheelarch.  Dual-purpose 11m Nationals for the NBC (mainly Crosville and Alder Valley) had different seating layouts, and the batch of DP Nationals for WMPTE were supplied seatless and had custom made (and very old fashioned) coach seating, so probably would be too much to expect them to be made with a detailed interior given the variety of interior models needed, but I would suggest a dual door 44 seat layout, and a single door 49 or 52 seat layout would cover a huge swathe of fleets across the country and post deregulation, more private liveries than you could imagine.

Most importantly, seeing as we're asking Jason to consider this as the next model, WMPTE was a big user right across the West Midlands including Birmingham.  My vote goes for the dual door NEC branded WMPTE buses which seemed to spend more time working other routes than around the NEC and were the only dual door Nashers in the WMPTE fleet.  Also, as planning permission for the NEC was granted in 1971, and work started in 1973, 2021 or 2023 would be suitable 50th anniversary dates to launch a model National with the launch model in NEC livery which gives time for the Daimler Fleetline to hit the market...just saying!

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Agree, a National would be a good choice, could be seen all over the country. Horrible vehicle to drive!

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Well technically next year is the fiftieth anniversary of the Leyland National. The first hand built prototypes started to be tested in 1969. Then it was known as a FRP7 project. Donald Stokes lived up to his reputation selling the project as an investment to the NBC. Leyland won the day and progressively killed off any competition such as the Bristol RE series 3, and the body builders, especially ECW, but all where under attack as Leyland wanted to sell integral buses.

 

Although really the NBC didn’t need the National. They had 50% ownership of Bristol Commercial Vehicles (BCV) who’s RE was the most successful first generation rear engine single decker of the period. ECW as the body builder, plus BMMO from Midland Red with their experience from buses like the D7 & 9, S23 /26 and CM6T motorway coach. There is a legend before NBC adopted the National, a Bristol RE with ECW body was run as an experiment with a BMMO engine.

 

The Leyland National is a touchy subject with many a bus depot engineer, who often think of them as Leyland Nasties! Indeed an expensive bus to run compared to a Bristol RE.

Edited by richierich

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Midland Red were developing plans for a rear engined high capacity standee single decker at one point, but the problems they were having recruiting staff for Central Works in an area with plenty of high paid car making jobs, and setting up of the PTE creating uncertainty for the future for the Birmingham and Black Country network, which was the profitable core of the company, led to the ending of bus building by BMMO in 1970.  Eventually of course the PTE bought out the West Midlands operations which killed the cash cow which supported the company.

Midland Red were obsessive about keeping weight to a minimum and having simple robust engineering, clearly a result of being an operator with a keen eye on keeping costs down.  Whether they would have survived as a bus builder any longer than they did is a moot point given that the political policies of the time regarding industry and the Nationalised corporations which would probably have seen it closed or assimilated into the British Leyland conglomerate in any case.

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Same goes for Tilling Group who kept Bus design in terms of Bristol’s rather simple and elegant. Although keeping the crash gearbox in the Lodekka until 1966 was maybe too simple?

 

ECW kept bus and coach bodies stylish, practical and elegant too.

 

Anyway this is going way off topical…

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Please be an East Lancs body like 6757!

 

But seriously, I'll be getting two just for nostalgia! They were being rapidly phased out of Coventry when I was a kid, but I still have very vivid memories of catching them to town! Far better experience than the Metro's that replaced them, although being a kid I didn't have the lack of room issues that others have stated  ;)

On the subject of Fleetlines, this post reminds me that 6th January 2019 will mark the 20th anniversary when First Manchester withdrew it's last GMT standard Northern Counties bodied Leyland Fleetline from service, It brought to an end 37 years operation of the type in the Greater Manchester area. I still very much miss them to this day, the Gardner engined version was always my favourite rear engined double decker of all time. I recall that the last West Midlands Fleetlines were withdrawn a little earlier in 1997.

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Agree, a National would be a good choice, could be seen all over the country. Horrible vehicle to drive!

I loved driving National’s, especially those without anti roll bars lol. Also had a habit of killing them as well .

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Wumpty fleetlines didn't just get to Birmingham you know....

 

 

post-13358-0-35279000-1543953046_thumb.jpg

 

Les

 

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