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Richard Hall

The Stobs project

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With a rather significant WR anniversary fast approaching I really need to get off my fat behind and actually start building the layout I have been planning for ages. To cut a very long story short I've gone for Stobs in late spring 1961 (just before it lost its goods facilties), N gauge in a space 10' x 5' which I think is just about enough.  I'm planning a U-shaped "bent dogbone" with the scenic area around 8' x 2'6" (nice and deep) with storage loops at each end.  This means that my trains can go from one place to another and return some time later, rather than just going round in circles.

 

Stobs couldn't be much simpler as stations go - a single goods siding on the Down side and a trailing crossover opposite the signalbox of whose purpose I have no idea. The only uses I can think of are rescuing trains which have got into trouble on the climb out of Hawick, or releasing banking engines used to give heavy troop trains an initial shove out of Stobs Camp sidings. So I will model the crossover but non-working as I can't imagine ever needing to use it.  

 

The main problem is the usual WR one - no useful scenic breaks.  At the south end there is a deep cutting and lots of trees which should be enough to hide the entrance to the loops, but to the north of Barns Viaduct is a long embankment which is really unhelpful. I'll have to fudge it, with sharply rising ground to a typical WR sheep bridge providing the necessary scenic break, helped by a few more trees. I think it's doable but the first stage will be to knock up a quarter-scale model out of card and polystyrene and see how it looks.

 

This layout is going to be all about operation, presenting a representative selection of WR trains in a sequence which bears at least some resemblance to the working timetable.  I'll have eight loops to play with, the shortest of which will handle 10 coaches or 30 wagons with room to spare.  Keeping one loop free  I need to come up with seven classic WR formations.  Suggestions welcome, but my thinking at the moment is as follows:

 

1. Waverley / Leeds-Edinburgh express (8-9 coaches)

2. Edinburgh-Carlisle semi-fast (4-5 coaches and a varying number of vans)

3. Carlisle-Hawick stopper (2-3 coaches)

4. Class C fast freight (30 wagons inc fish and perishables vans)

5. Class E freight (30 wagons)

6. Carlisle-Hawick pick-up goods

7. The tricky one.  Parcels, or night sleeper?  If I make the two short trains share a single loop I could have both...

 

Locomotives - I gave some serious thought to the "death steam" era around 1965, but as DJM have shelved their Clayton for now I've gone for that short but glorious period when Pacifics and V2s were being cascaded down from ECML services and could turn up on pretty much any working.  There are a fair few gaps in the RTR offerings - K3, D49 and J36 are the obvious ones - but A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, V2, J39, Standard 4MT, diesel classes 26 and 40, and the odd Britannia and Black Five should cover most workings for now.

 

Does anyone have scale drawings for any of the station buildings?

 

Richard

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Locomotives - I gave some serious thought to the "death steam" era around 1965, but as DJM have shelved their Clayton for now I've gone for that short but glorious period when Pacifics and V2s were being cascaded down from ECML services and could turn up on pretty much any working.  There are a fair few gaps in the RTR offerings - K3, D49 and J36 are the obvious ones - but A1, A2, A3, A4, B1, V2, J39, Standard 4MT, diesel classes 26 and 40, and the odd Britannia and Black Five should cover most workings for now.

 

 

Standard 5, Standard 4 tank and Class 45 all made regular showings on the WR too, even more scope.

 

Cheers

Dave

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Standard 5, Standard 4 tank and Class 45 all made regular showings on the WR too, even more scope.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

 

 

 

I believe the Peaks didn't  really start appearing until 1962, so a bit out of period, but I'm happy to be corrected on that.  Looks like I might not have to model that crossover, I found a photo from 1961 and it had clearly been removed by then.  I spent a happy evening going through the 1953 WTT and trying to get a feel for traffic patterns. Also poring over photos of the station buildings and thinking about constructional methods. I think I need to be realistic about timeframe on this one: I've been planning it for more than thirty years, so I shouldn't be too worried if it takes me five years to build.

 

Richard

 

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Happily, of course, the building at Stobs still survives in private occupancy, as does the footbridge, albeit in a perilous state! 

 

Regarding Peaks on the WR, the following is taken from the excellent Derby Sulzers site, and it confirms that they are very much 'in period,' displacing the Pacifics to the fitted freights.
 
'The 1961 summer timetable saw a number of Peaks transferred including two - D91 & D101 sent to Carlisle (12B). This allowed them to make intermittent workings on the Leeds - Glasgow St Enoch services whilst on June 14th D91 was noted working two round trips of empty vans over the Waverley route - between Carlisle & Hawick, seen as a precursor to the use of the Peaks on the Edinburgh - Leeds workings...
 
By June 28th 1961 more Peaks were diagrammed over the Waverley route, D101 worked the down Waverley from Carlisle, returning with the 10.50pm sleeper, D29 working these on July 4th. On July 3rd D25 started to work the down sleeper from Leeds returning with the up Waverley.'

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Happily, of course, the building at Stobs still survives in private occupancy, as does the footbridge, albeit in a perilous state! 

 

Regarding Peaks on the WR, the following is taken from the excellent Derby Sulzers site, and it confirms that they are very much 'in period,' displacing the Pacifics to the fitted freights.
 
'The 1961 summer timetable saw a number of Peaks transferred including two - D91 & D101 sent to Carlisle (12B). This allowed them to make intermittent workings on the Leeds - Glasgow St Enoch services whilst on June 14th D91 was noted working two round trips of empty vans over the Waverley route - between Carlisle & Hawick, seen as a precursor to the use of the Peaks on the Edinburgh - Leeds workings...
 
By June 28th 1961 more Peaks were diagrammed over the Waverley route, D101 worked the down Waverley from Carlisle, returning with the 10.50pm sleeper, D29 working these on July 4th. On July 3rd D25 started to work the down sleeper from Leeds returning with the up Waverley.'

 

Peaks appeared in significant numbers from 28/6/61: Stobs lost its goods facilities on 3/7/61.  Seldom can any model railway have pinned itself down to such a short timeframe.

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Peaks appeared in significant numbers from 28/6/61: Stobs lost its goods facilities on 3/7/61.  Seldom can any model railway have pinned itself down to such a short timeframe.

 

Not even a full week!!!  

 

 

EDIT to add:  ...and I thought I was bad with 18 months!!!

Edited by 'CHARD

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Not even a full week!!!  

 

 

EDIT to add:  ...and I thought I was bad with 18 months!!!

 

My obsession is running riot. Have been looking at photos of the station house (which seems to have been the least photographed structure on the entire WR) and realised it is built on sloping ground.  Now wondering whether to build the entire layout on a 1 in 75 slope to get all the angles right.

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My obsession is running riot. Have been looking at photos of the station house (which seems to have been the least photographed structure on the entire WR) and realised it is built on sloping ground.  Now wondering whether to build the entire layout on a 1 in 75 slope to get all the angles right.

 

 

 

Make sure you get the correct gradient for your slope ... here's the gradient sign from Stobs, currently at my house.

 

 

med_gallery_7852_4499_51561.jpg

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Make sure you get the correct gradient for your slope ... here's the gradient sign from Stobs, currently at my house.

 

 

med_gallery_7852_4499_51561.jpg

 

 

Oooh, a gradient change midway, even better.  No problem with my planned open frame baseboards, but can I ask where exactly the sign used to be located?  I can't spot it on the few photos I have looked at. It occurs to me that I will have to model the gradient whether I like it or not, as the goods siding was on the level and the divergence in trackbed heights is very obvious. 

 

Richard

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..... can I ask where exactly the sign used to be located? 

 

 

I'm reliably informed that it stood just into the cutting off the south end of the up platform, around 30 yards south. Awaiting precise mileage. 

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Oooh, a gradient change midway, even better.  No problem with my planned open frame baseboards, but can I ask where exactly the sign used to be located?  I can't spot it on the few photos I have looked at. It occurs to me that I will have to model the gradient whether I like it or not, as the goods siding was on the level and the divergence in trackbed heights is very obvious. 

 

Richard

 

I'm reliably informed that it stood just into the cutting off the south end of the up platform, around 30 yards south. Awaiting precise mileage. 

 

So that's what the dialogue was about on FB earlier!!!   :angel:

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All the gradient profiles I have found show the gradient change starting to the north of Stobs station.  (Possibly the 1 in 250 bit was just Barnes Viaduct.)  But if the marker post was to the south that means that either the gradient profiles are wrong (possible if they are all taken from the same source) or the marker post was put in the wrong place.  I hadn't realised that the gradient past Stobs Camp stiffens to 1 in 50.  No wonder that section attracted photographers. 

 

My Christmas wish list:

 

  • Information on the makeup of the St Pancras sleeper trains circa 1961. Presumably some Mk1 sleepers in there, but what else?
  • Photos of the back of Stobs station buildings, especially showing the outbuildings.
  • Some good photos of the signalbox.
  • A good RTR model of a K3 (probably have to wait until Christmas 2035 for that one)
  • Ditto D49 or D34 (Christmas 2050)

Richard

Edited by Richard Hall

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My Christmas wish list:

  • Information on the makeup of the St Pancras sleeper trains circa 1961. Presumably some Mk1 sleepers in there, but what else?

 

Might be able to help with that one - I have an extract from the Sc.R. Carriage Marshalling booklet for June-Sept 1962, and that says:

 

BG / 3 SK (48S) / 2 CK (24F-18S) / SLF / SLSTP / BG - total 9 vehicles (numbers in brackets are the seating capacities) of BR Standard stock, ie Mk.1. The formation was essentially the same in both directions, though the Up working conveyed an extra SK on Mon/Fri/Sat and also one or 2 fish vans from Aberdeen to Leeds or Nottingham.

 

Similar info is in "Passenger Train Formations 1923-1983 : LMS-LM Region" by Clive S.Carter (Ian Allan 1987).

 

HTH.

 

Alasdair

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Might be able to help with that one - I have an extract from the Sc.R. Carriage Marshalling booklet for June-Sept 1962, and that says:

 

BG / 3 SK (48S) / 2 CK (24F-18S) / SLF / SLSTP / BG - total 9 vehicles (numbers in brackets are the seating capacities) of BR Standard stock, ie Mk.1. The formation was essentially the same in both directions, though the Up working conveyed an extra SK on Mon/Fri/Sat and also one or 2 fish vans from Aberdeen to Leeds or Nottingham.

 

Similar info is in "Passenger Train Formations 1923-1983 : LMS-LM Region" by Clive S.Carter (Ian Allan 1987).

 

HTH.

 

Alasdair

 

 

Thanks very much for that.  Fewer sleeping cars than I expected, to the point where a quick shuffle in the fiddle yard, swapping a restaurant car and TSO for the two sleepers and the second BG, would give me something close to the Waverley formation - close enough for N gauge anyway. 

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Thanks very much for that.  Fewer sleeping cars than I expected, to the point where a quick shuffle in the fiddle yard, swapping a restaurant car and TSO for the two sleepers and the second BG, would give me something close to the Waverley formation - close enough for N gauge anyway. 

 

I got "The Waverley" formation from the same sources, confirmed by a fair amount of poring over published pics -

see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/102152-wharfeside-a-lifetimes-project/?p=2333994

 

HTH

 

Alasdair

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I got "The Waverley" formation from the same sources, confirmed by a fair amount of poring over published pics -

see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/102152-wharfeside-a-lifetimes-project/?p=2333994

 

HTH

 

Alasdair

 

I think I'll ignore the difference between open and corridor seconds on the grounds of it being N gauge.  The restaurant car is more problematic - I don't see a Stanier twelve-wheeler on the horizon from any of the major manufacturers, so a Farish RU will have to suffice for now. Buying stock is still a little way off, I'm currently working out material requirements for the three baseboards and trying to come up with a design which is light, easy to put up and take down, and has some protection from being bashed about in transit. Barry Norman ply girder construction looks like the way forward.  I need to have a bit of a clearance sale of unwanted items to raise some funds, plywood seems to have become very expensive.

 

Richard

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I think I'll ignore the difference between open and corridor seconds on the grounds of it being N gauge.  The restaurant car is more problematic - I don't see a Stanier twelve-wheeler on the horizon from any of the major manufacturers, so a Farish RU will have to suffice for now. Buying stock is still a little way off, I'm currently working out material requirements for the three baseboards and trying to come up with a design which is light, easy to put up and take down, and has some protection from being bashed about in transit. Barry Norman ply girder construction looks like the way forward.  I need to have a bit of a clearance sale of unwanted items to raise some funds, plywood seems to have become very expensive.

 

Richard

 

The ex-LMS 12-wheeler in "The Waverley" was replaced circa 1962 with a BR Mk.1 RF to dia.17, so the BR Mk.1 RU would look like an acceptable substitute.

 

Good luck with the project - will be following it on here with interest.

 

Alasdair

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I have started working up some drawings for the various Stobs structures.  As I am now finding, there was a desperate lack of standardisation along the route.  Every single structure seems to have been unique to each station, and even the bricks at Stobs appear to be a non-standard size.  I started with the ticket office which had survived in remarkable condition, and for which I have found several good clear photos.  I worked out the dimensions by counting bricks, based on the common Victorian brick size of 9 x 41/2 inches, and ended up with a doorway about eight feet high.  So I redid the drawings on the assumption that the door was 6'6" or thereabouts and now have something which looks about right in proportions.  It's a lovely little building and the ticket window is a work of art. Hopefully I can do it justice.

 

I then started on the footbridge and quickly realised there is something odd about it.  It isn't symmetrical.  The centre span is skewed to one side (assuming the smoke deflectors are actually above the rail centrelines) and the Up side has taller vertical supports than the Down.  Presumably something to do with the cant of the trackbed as the whole station is on a curve.  I hadn't even thought about this aspect: my baseboard joinery just got a little more complicated. The basic framework was built from lengths of BH rail bolted together, so hopefully I will be able to solder something together which isn't too flimsy.  It really was a rickety looking structure even when the station was still open.

 

I have yet to find really good pictures of the signalbox or Down waiting room.  The upper part of the box looks to be much the same as Shankend but I can't tell what the base was made of - brick or timber? I have mined just about all the information I can get from the Stobs photos I can find on the Internet (Disused Stations, Canmore and Railscot, mainly), but if anyone knows of another source which I have missed I would be more than grateful.

 

Richard

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.......  I have yet to find really good pictures of the signalbox or Down waiting room.  The upper part of the box looks to be much the same as Shankend but I can't tell what the base was made of - brick or timber? I have mined just about all the information I can get from the Stobs photos I can find on the Internet (Disused Stations, Canmore and Railscot, mainly), but if anyone knows of another source which I have missed I would be more than grateful.

 

 

Please can you send me a message ... I've got something that *may* help you.

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Thanks very much indeed to Matt for your help with the signal box.  It is timber with a brick base, very small and bears no resemblance to anything else on the WR.  It doesn't seem to match up with any other North British 'boxes elsewhere that I have found either. The closest I can find is the much larger 'box at Lady Victoria Pit which dates I think from around 1895.  I'm guessing that the 'box at Stobs was added quite some time after the line was opened, and may have been bought in from one of the big contractors.  The problem is that I can't find anything similar from Saxby & Farmer, Railway Signal Co etc either. I'll do some more digging.

 

Richard

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Straws in the wind...

 

DSCN2386sm-L.jpg

 

Footbridge under way with the main span sides soldered up from code 40 bullhead rail using a resistance soldering unit.  Dimensioned up from photographs.

 

DSCN2388sm-L.jpg

 

Ticket office nearly complete, all card construction. Again dimensions taken from photographs and a bit of counting bricks, I'm happy with the proportions on the end with the door, but I have a feeling the sides are not quite long enough.  The porch should have had twelve panes of glass but ended up with eight so I have screwed up somewhere.  Still I think it just about captures the essence of the building but I'll have to do better for the station house.

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Straws in the wind...

 

DSCN2386sm-L.jpg

 

Footbridge under way with the main span sides soldered up from code 40 bullhead rail using a resistance soldering unit.  Dimensioned up from photographs.

 

DSCN2388sm-L.jpg

 

Ticket office nearly complete, all card construction. Again dimensions taken from photographs and a bit of counting bricks, I'm happy with the proportions on the end with the door, but I have a feeling the sides are not quite long enough.  The porch should have had twelve panes of glass but ended up with eight so I have screwed up somewhere.  Still I think it just about captures the essence of the building but I'll have to do better for the station house.

 

Yes, the size and proportions are working for me, it's the brickwork that's not convincing me yet.  Hold on there.....

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/s/stobs/stobs(rg9.1968)old14.jpg

 

The booking office brickwork was rough as ar$eholes, looks like the structure might have had relevance to the structures at Stobs Camp somehow.  It has that air of make-do impermanence - if that's a thing!

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I don't think the brickwork is rough as such but there's a lot of variation in colour.  I had a look at a few brick papers but couldn't find anything quite like it.  Might be worth experimenting with picking out individual bricks in slightly different tones if my eyesight is up to it. I still have a fair bit to do to finish the building, at this rate I might have something I can run trains on in time for the 60th anniversary of closure.

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I don't think the brickwork is rough as such but there's a lot of variation in colour.  I had a look at a few brick papers but couldn't find anything quite like it.  Might be worth experimenting with picking out individual bricks in slightly different tones if my eyesight is up to it. I still have a fair bit to do to finish the building, at this rate I might have something I can run trains on in time for the 60th anniversary of closure.

 

My eye was drawn to those lintels, reminded me of the USAF prefab style of architecture....

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An iconic WR structure starts to come together...

 

DSCN2393-L.jpg

 

This is somewhere the wrong side of "insanely fiddly".  All-soldered construction using code 40 BH rail, 0.7mm nickel wire for the handrails and 0.3mm phosphor bronze for the wires.  I have never attempted anything like this before and probably never will again. It's a little wonky in a couple of places, if I did another one I would put some thought into assembly jigs to keep it all square.  One staircase still to do, plus the gate for the private entrance to Stobs Castle, and lots of stair treads.  Most of the WR footbridges had open treads but Stobs looks to have been solid which I think will make the job a bit easier.

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