3D Printing in 2mm Scale

[Jan W]

Would it be possible to print window frames and doors for buildings etc?

I'm scratchbuilding a station building and railway pub and of course I also have to make the windows and doors.

There are possibly better options for windows like etching, laser cutting or even a craft robot but if a Photon printer can also be used for it that would open lots of other possibilities like coach roofs, loco parts, etc. 

I have had some of my own designs (platform edging, foundation and walls of another station building) printed by Shapeways already but that's quite expensive.

 

The reason for asking this is that I always see a relatively large base for the prints and I was wondering if such a base with supports could also hold a delicate window frame.

 

Jan

[Chris Higgs]

17 hours ago, Jan W said:

Would it be possible to print window frames and doors for buildings etc?

I'm scratchbuilding a station building and railway pub and of course I also have to make the windows and doors.

There are possibly better options for windows like etching, laser cutting or even a craft robot but if a Photon printer can also be used for it that would open lots of other possibilities like coach roofs, loco parts, etc. 

I have had some of my own designs (platform edging, foundation and walls of another station building) printed by Shapeways already but that's quite expensive.

 

The reason for asking this is that I always see a relatively large base for the prints and I was wondering if such a base with supports could also hold a delicate window frame.

 

Jan

 

Surely windows will be too fragile in use, even if you can print them? I have a children's dolls house ruined by plastic paned windows which broke all over the place, meaning it ended up looking like a derelict ruin. 

 

A case of needing  "right material, right place" (to misquote a well-known gardening program)

 

Chris

Edited June 13, 2020 by Chris Higgs

[Caley Jim]

I agree with Chris.  Etched windows are by far the most robust, though they can also be cut on a silhouette cutter or laser in thin card.

 

My method is to etch them in three layers (5 in the case of sash windows) with a slot to slip in the glazing after painting.

 

See 4th photo down in this post.

 

Jim

[Jan W]

6 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

A case of needing  "right material, right place" 

 

Thanks Chris and Jim!

 

I didn't think of the brittleness of the resin but something in the back of my head kept telling me that it would be difficult to remove the printed frames from the support without breaking them.

I'll look into the possibilities of laser cutting in card:

https://snijlab.nl/en/m/196/resinboard-0-5mm

 

Jan

[TomE]

I’m doing some test prints of Julia’s excellent 18000 Gas Turbine CAD, and this is the first attempt at the cab. I made things a bit difficult for myself around the windows with some sloppy support placement but otherwise it’s come out nicely. Some adjustment to the orientation is needed to try and reduce the layer artefacts. 

 

The steps came out particularly nicely. 

Tom. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by TomE

[TomE]

Reoriented the print slightly and was more careful with the supports around the windows for the 2nd attempt:

 

 

A few print artefacts but nothing that wouldn’t sand out or be lost under a layer or two of paint. 
 

The main body is the next task! 
 

I think Julia has done a cracking job on the CAD for this, captures the look of it perfectly! 
 

Tom. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by TomE

[MikeTrice]

That is looking pretty good. I do like the concept of adding a sacrificial edge that can be cut off the moulding.

[TomE]

Just now, MikeTrice said:

That is looking pretty good. I do like the concept of adding a sacrificial edge that can be cut off the moulding.

 

I'm totally sold on the idea! The fewer supports that you need to attach to the actual model the better in my book, plus they help keep edges level and stop warping whilst it cures fully. 

 

Tom. 

[millerhillboy]

The steps and the details around about the buffer beam area are quite remarkable really. As you say a coat of paint on that and it'll be more or less perfect.

 

Great work folks.

[bécasse]

I reckon that I would be very pleased with that if it were in 4mm scale, for 2FS it is almost incredible.

[bill-lobb]

Can I ask a question? I am just coming to the end of the bottle of green resin that came with my Photon. What sort of resin does anyone prefer for their models? Does anyone have experience of Weistek ABS like resin?

[TomE]

 

On 17/06/2020 at 14:39, bill-lobb said:

Can I ask a question? I am just coming to the end of the bottle of green resin that came with my Photon. What sort of resin does anyone prefer for their models? Does anyone have experience of Weistek ABS like resin?

 

 

I’ve been using Phrozen ABS like grey exclusively of late. I find it good for detail and very easy to work with post cure. 
 

I’ve reprinted the 18000 cab as the original CAD was exported in mm instead of cm and had been up scaled in Chitubox, which it doesn’t seem to be very good at! The re-exported model has printed with the flat surfaces around the cab front and on the roof, so the end result is much better. 
 

Time to move into the main body! 

 

Tom. 

Edited June 18, 2020 by TomE

[bill-lobb]

18 hours ago, TomE said:

 

 

 

I’ve been using Phrozen ABS like grey exclusively of late. I find it good for detail and very easy to work with post cure. 
 

I’ve reprinted the 18000 cab as the original CAD was exported in mm instead of cm and had been up scaled in Chitubox, which it doesn’t seem to be very good at! The re-exported model has printed with the flat surfaces around the cab front and on the roof, so the end result is much better. 
 

Time to move into the main body! 

 

Tom. 

 

Thank you for that. The detail certainly looks very good. Do you know a UK supplier? At the moment I don't seem to be able to find one.

Now I am torn between doing the sensible thing and following proven experience  or following my contrary side and trying something new.

 

Bill

[TomE]

2 hours ago, bill-lobb said:

 

Thank you for that. The detail certainly looks very good. Do you know a UK supplier? At the moment I don't seem to be able to find one.

Now I am torn between doing the sensible thing and following proven experience  or following my contrary side and trying something new.

 

Bill

 

Hi Bill. 

 

I haven't found a UK supplier unfortunately, I use FEP Shop who are based in the Netherlands. Never had a problem with any of the orders I've placed though and delivery is usually within 2-3 days. 

 

Tom. 

[njee20]

On 13/06/2020 at 18:55, Jan W said:

I didn't think of the brittleness of the resin but something in the back of my head kept telling me that it would be difficult to remove the printed frames from the support without breaking them.

I'll look into the possibilities of laser cutting in card:

https://snijlab.nl/en/m/196/resinboard-0-5mm

I’ve printed n gauge windows flat to the build plate before. Worked fine. Down to about 0.2mm prints well. I’d suggest trying to do them with supports would be messy.

That cab is absolutely superb Tom, really impressive.
 

For resin I use standard Anycubic or Elegoo, which are both very good for me. Grey by default, it smells less than the translucent green. I want something a big more flexible I must say. Siraya and Monocure get good feedback, but both hard to get (or just really expensive) over here. 

[Atso]

I've been working on a further two C1 Atlantics recently. This were printed at 20 microns layer thickness with 8 seconds exposure and are now in the advanced painting and lining stage.

 

 

Off the printer this morning is the test print for an ex-GNR Class A tender to go with the J6 body I designed a few years back.

 

 

 

I've got a couple of bits to modify to make it a better fit on the modified Farish tender drive unit.

 

 

[kingrail]

Hi

I am new to the world of 3D printing and would be grateful for any advice.

 

I have enjoyed playing around with Tinkercad and now have a great looking replica of a 2mm scale station.

It’s a complex design and about 25cmx15cmx20cm 

shapeways have quoted £600 !

 

what is my best option?

Can anyone else recommend a printing service or maybe even better to buy my own machine?

I thought Shapeways would be better quality but maybe not after seeing the detailed items on this thread.

 

kind regards

[Nigelcliffe]

1 hour ago, kingrail said:

Hi

I am new to the world of 3D printing and would be grateful for any advice.

 

I have enjoyed playing around with Tinkercad and now have a great looking replica of a 2mm scale station.

It’s a complex design and about 25cmx15cmx20cm 

shapeways have quoted £600 !

 

what is my best option?

Can anyone else recommend a printing service or maybe even better to buy my own machine?

I thought Shapeways would be better quality but maybe not after seeing the detailed items on this thread.

 

kind regards

 

A building is probably not the best thing to print as a single 3D element.   As to why its £600 - you're paying for fine detail printer head to go around printing fresh air inside the empty box!

 

Break the model up into sub-parts and build from those.  Whether they're better done as flat panels on a laser cutter / silhouette cutter,  or as 3D print elements to glue together is another matter.    Most buildings seem to work well as layers cut on a flat cutter and the layers stuck together.  Sometimes adding details as 3D prints. 

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

 

[Ian Morgan]

When I created the station building for Freshwater, Shapeways charged about £95 to print it. After they changed their charging scheme, the price doubled. Their new scheme has three elements:

• amount of material used
• overall volume taken up
• handling (especially if multiple items)

So, for the first point, try to keep to minimum wall thickness for material, and restrict internal walls and floors to bare minimum.

For the second point, break down the model to separate pieces, and stack them inside each other.

For the last point, add 'sprues' to link all the separate items into a single one.

 

Hopefully I will not need to make another, as it was done in a single piece.

 

[kingrail]

Nigel/Ian

Many thanks

 

Although maybe slightly bigger I would say the design is no more complicated than Ian’s

 

But yes I think I will try and stack the layers and see if the price comes down.

 

Ian. Your station looks great and I think includes brickwork.

Was this part of the design and printed?

I was going to finish my brick areas with printed paper as I thought this level of detail would have been too small to print.

 

KR

Matt

[Caley Jim]

In my opinion, printed paper is preferable in 2MM scale as the relief between the face of the bricks and the beds and joints is minuscule in reality (around ¼inch, or 5mm) so embossed or moulded brickwork is just too course.

 

Jim

[Ian Morgan]

I did model all the bricks and tiles, mainly because there is a lot of decorative brickwork around the centre, eaves and gabels, and the plain brickwork was Flemish garden wall bond, not available ready made. The roof tiles were 5 rows of oblong tiles, then 5 rows of scalloped, and so on, again not available elsewhere.

 

The window frames are etched brass from Brassmasters, and the ridge tiles are from ScaleLink (now called ScaleLink  fretcetera?). Other than the poster boards, everything else was part of the 3D model, including the post box and clock, and gentlemens facilities.

 

 

[Chris Higgs]

On 13/07/2020 at 18:09, Caley Jim said:

In my opinion, printed paper is preferable in 2MM scale as the relief between the face of the bricks and the beds and joints is minuscule in reality (around ¼inch, or 5mm) so embossed or moulded brickwork is just too course.

 

Jim

 

That is unless you fill those gaps with some sort of powder (fake mortar). I have seen some mighty impressive results that way.

 

Chris

[CF MRC]

I’m ambivalent about using moulded plastic or printed paper brickwork.  The Slaters brick styrene works best if you virtually sand it away. We are lucky on CF to have our own brick making plate that produces the finest possible results. This sort of effect would be very difficult to achieve with paper. 

Tim

[Izzy]

I have found that I need to use brick papers with good, clean, high definition in 2mm to make them viewable. Otherwise it’s just mostly coloured mush. 
 

It’s a very long time since I worked as a medical & industrial technical photographer but IIRC the normal closest focus limits are around 20 lppm (lines pairs per mm) at NVD. So outside these parameters eyes need a bit of help getting clear definition or details get merged/averaged. A bit of contrast edging through non-flat surfaces helps in this regard. I just wish I had the skill and patience to emboss the mortar courses with a slight impression which would I think be beneficial.

 

The biggest issue I have encountered with some commercial brick papers is the ‘step & repeat’ nature of the brick sheets over a small area which for larger areas of brick mean patterning known as moire is easily produced and far too visible. I no longer use Scalescenes because of this. Although they are rather overscale Metcalfe are much better for this and also definition-wise . So I fully appreciate why some prefer embossed brick even if it’s too deep and over obvious since colouring can be more broader strokes to suit the scale and viewing distance that they are relative to.

 

It’s all nip & tuck isn’t it?
 

regards all

 

Izzy