3D Printing in 2mm Scale

[monkeysarefun]

duplicated post

Edited November 23, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, CF MRC said:

Nah, you haven’t gone over budget yet…

 

Tim

And you dont yet own 4 printers...

[Atso]

13 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

And you dont yet own 4 printers...

 

I've got three... 

[Atso]

Some bits and pieces that I've been working on recently to get a more rounded view of LNER 1930's passenger formations.

 

 

Ex-GNR Gresley 56'6" Full Brakes representing Dia. 286 (top) and 287. These seem to crop up quite regularly in the 1935 and 1937 copies of the Carriage Working Books I have (more so than the later LNER 61'6" versions) so I had to have some.

 

 

The printed Dia. 287 in the process of being 'teaked' using oil paints. There was another variation of this type with a different style of ducket and lower panel detail.

 

 

 

A set of Howlden carriages as converted by Gresley from six wheelers into an articulated triplet set.

 

 

The triplet set straight after post cleaning and curing. Some revisions to the underframe are needed to get these to print a little better. These will form part of the 10:50am King's Cross to Doncaster semi-fast. 

 

 

Finally the body for a Howlden Full Brake to Dia. 296. I mainly worked from a very good dead side on photo (scaled to 4mm scale) but also referred to known dimensions in various books I have. This one is still to be test printed. One of these will go along with the triplet set above, the fifth carriage listed is an ex-GNR Gresley 61'6" corridor Brake Composite which will certainly give the 10:50am a different look.

 

[drduncan]

What project will these be for?

Duncan

Edited November 25, 2021 by drduncan

[Sithlord75]

On 24/11/2021 at 20:00, Atso said:

 

I've got three... 

Me too - the third arrived yesterday and I spent a little time today sorting it out, first test worked so now doing an LMS D1708 40t hopper to see how that goes.

[Atso]

2 hours ago, drduncan said:

What project will these be for?

Duncan

 

Hi Duncan,

 

I assume your question was directed at me and apologies if not.

 

I'm modelling Hadley Wood from after the LNER's resignaling work in 1932 up to the outbreak of WW2 in N gauge. The aim is to provide a reasonably comprehensive representation of the variety of services that passed the station during this period, starting in 1932 and working forwards in time (both by hour and year).

[drduncan]

33 minutes ago, Atso said:

 

Hi Duncan,

 

I assume your question was directed at me and apologies if not.

 

I'm modelling Hadley Wood from after the LNER's resignaling work in 1932 up to the outbreak of WW2 in N gauge. The aim is to provide a reasonably comprehensive representation of the variety of services that passed the station during this period, starting in 1932 and working forwards in time (both by hour and year).

Steve,

 

Yes it was for you!  Sorry I should have made that clear.  Your project sounds fascinating...  I'm trying my hand at some LNER stuff using Fusion 360 to appease no 1 son who has an n gauge layout (to try to keep clear water between Daddy's 4mm stuff and his - its only partly working).  The triplet set looks very nice.  I'm currently drawing up some Greasley non corridor stock based on the drawings in the Tatlow book of historic LNER carriages, and I'd like to try the Howlden bogie stock next.  What depth/height do you use for the panelling? Also, how do you do the Gresley roof profile?

 

Thanks

 

Duncan

[Atso]

42 minutes ago, drduncan said:

Yes it was for you!  Sorry I should have made that clear.  Your project sounds fascinating...  I'm trying my hand at some LNER stuff using Fusion 360 to appease no 1 son who has an n gauge layout (to try to keep clear water between Daddy's 4mm stuff and his - its only partly working).  The triplet set looks very nice.  I'm currently drawing up some Greasley non corridor stock based on the drawings in the Tatlow book of historic LNER carriages, and I'd like to try the Howlden bogie stock next.  What depth/height do you use for the panelling? Also, how do you do the Gresley roof profile?

 

Thanks Duncan.

 

I've not used Fusion 360 myself, instead I use a program called Alibre Design. For beading and paneling, I tend to go with a depth of 0.15mm. Heights can vary so careful measurements from the drawings is required here. Nick Campling's Volume Two of Historic Carriages is really good and I've used that quite a bit to design stock including this:

 

 

I really must get around to designing the Brake Composite to go with it.

 

The Gresley domed roof is a real pain, isn't it. To do this, I draw out the profile of the dome at 1mm intervals and then use the 'Loft' function in Alibre to render the final shape. Hopefully the screen grab shows the idea (red outlines are the various drawings). It takes awhile!

 

 

Hope this helps.

[Sithlord75]

Your back catalogue must be much bigger than Shapeways suggests now Steve.  Any plans on uploading stuff there for those of us who'd be interested in some of the models you've done but don't want to spend the time duplicating them?  I'll be needing some GNR stock in 2022 (hopefully - more likely 2023 if we are being serious).

[A. Bastow]

2 hours ago, Atso said:

 

Thanks Duncan.

 

I've not used Fusion 360 myself, instead I use a program called Alibre Design. For beading and paneling, I tend to go with a depth of 0.15mm. Heights can vary so careful measurements from the drawings is required here. Nick Campling's Volume Two of Historic Carriages is really good and I've used that quite a bit to design stock including this:

 

 

I really must get around to designing the Brake Composite to go with it.

 

The Gresley domed roof is a real pain, isn't it. To do this, I draw out the profile of the dome at 1mm intervals and then use the 'Loft' function in Alibre to render the final shape. Hopefully the screen grab shows the idea (red outlines are the various drawings). It takes awhile!

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Hi Steve,

 

Does the loft function not provide the correct shape from say the starting plane all the way through to the end plane or does it not follow it right? Do you need to do it this way for it to have the right profile?

Some more insights as to where people start with these models would be great as I might be doing things back to front. 

With the LNWR full brake that I did, I decided that it was better to start with a general shell outline and sculpt into shape from there, but for the wagons that I have done I start by building the detail up from the start. Mainly the wagons are done differently to get the separation between the planks and the metal banding. 

Maybe I should do a wagon as a shell first and "carve" out the detail using different methods...

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by A. Bastow
Correction

[Atso]

1 hour ago, A. Bastow said:

 

Hi Steve,

 

Does the loft function not provide the correct shape from say the starting plane all the way through to the end plane or does it not follow it right? Do you need to do it this way for it to have the right profile?
 

 

 

The domed roof is a rather complex shape so the CAD needs to be told where profile needs to go. It's a bit like the frame on a ship or aircraft and the more references you can give the program, the better the shape becomes. To only give the loft function a reference for the start and end point will result in it creating a straight line from one to the other (hopefully that makes as much sense to those reading as it does in my head!).

 

For something that has no change throughout its length, a simple extrude function is fine though. That's how I design the bulk of my carriages and wagons and add detail once the basic shape is established.

[Atso]

Not the best light for a photo but the printed parts for my Howlden 45' BV are now done.

 

5 hours ago, Sithlord75 said:

Your back catalogue must be much bigger than Shapeways suggests now Steve.  Any plans on uploading stuff there for those of us who'd be interested in some of the models you've done but don't want to spend the time duplicating them?  I'll be needing some GNR stock in 2022 (hopefully - more likely 2023 if we are being serious).

 

Yes, the back catalogue is a bit bigger now but I've stopped putting new stuff on Shapeways as it was becoming too much hassle with all the regular changes they make.

 

 

 

[Sithlord75]

7 hours ago, Atso said:

Yes, the back catalogue is a bit bigger now but I've stopped putting new stuff on Shapeways as it was becoming too much hassle with all the regular changes they make.

Understandable but a shame.  Would you be willing to part with some of the stls for non-commercial private use?  (I ask because a Jerry Clifford shaped birdie told me you'd done the "Stanier" 0-4-4T of which 1901 was a Watford-St Albans regular).

[bradfordbuffer]

6 hours ago, Sithlord75 said:

Understandable but a shame.  Would you be willing to part with some of the stls for non-commercial private use?  (I ask because a Jerry Clifford shaped birdie told me you'd done the "Stanier" 0-4-4T of which 1901 was a Watford-St Albans regular).

Difficult subject!.....several listing on ebay for lineside items look very err similar to free stls on thingiverse....such a same as without free stls how would you take the steep learning curve for 3d printing...as you probably get as many failures as good prints...

Some people are such prats

3d printing is a rabbit hole such a fun part of hobby and developing all the time, unfortunately I've had to mothball mine till spring as took deliver of a English springer spaniel terrorist so all time diverted to her! I'll be back...but then curve starts again!

 

Hopefully I might have a bit of evening computer practice and learn to cad draw over the winter

[bradfordbuffer]

2 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Difficult subject!.....several listing on ebay for lineside items look very err similar to free stls on thingiverse....such a same as without free stls how would you take the steep learning curve for 3d printing...as you probably get as many failures as good prints...

Some people are such prats

3d printing is a rabbit hole such a fun part of hobby and developing all the time, unfortunately I've had to mothball mine till spring as took deliver of a English springer spaniel terrorist so all time diverted to her! I'll be back...but then curve starts again!

 

Hopefully I might have a bit of evening computer practice and learn to cad draw over the winter

As part of mothballing my 3d kit I had previously bought from ebay a distiller for removing resin sludge from IPA as I was never happy with filtering as is messy and takes forever and ipa still sticky, saw a YouTube vid from USA on a chap who had done it so took the plunge, 75 quid a bit steep but my little bro is getting into 3d printing so he will get use out of it...he is a ex retained fire fighter so dropped me a fire blanket to go with my extinguisher and just shook his his head and left...well it worked! No explosion so far and crystal clear IPA...its a smelly ...dangerous so a out side job! Sludge left at bottom of boiler easy removed

Any one wishing to try search YouTube for vid....it worked for me

 

If you purchase and try.....I hold no responsibility or liability

 

Sorry about photos as thay are screen shots of vid I took to show bro no explosion !!

[Sithlord75]

2 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Difficult subject!.....several listing on ebay for lineside items look very err similar to free stls on thingiverse....such a same as without free stls how would you take the steep learning curve for 3d printing...as you probably get as many failures as good prints...

Some people are such prats

3d printing is a rabbit hole such a fun part of hobby and developing all the time, unfortunately I've had to mothball mine till spring as took deliver of a English springer spaniel terrorist so all time diverted to her! I'll be back...but then curve starts again!

 

Hopefully I might have a bit of evening computer practice and learn to cad draw over the winter

 

Well I did it the other way around - learnt cad and eventually got my own printers much later.   The resin one was principally because I was sick of paying Shapeways postage (and everything else) and waiting the three weeks delivery to Australia.  I've currently got 39 wagon bodies which I own the IP for which I'm happy to share (being a trusting person) the majority is listed on the 2mm Small Suppliers CAD page.  I'm working on some Australian coaches too but I don't think there'd be much use for that.  My .stl gloat box (none of which has been put on ebay - and I am grateful to the other CAD designers for their trust and generosity) presently numbers 95 (I have about 10 more which I need to finish off - Christmas break perhaps).

 

I do agree that some people are prats about things - most aren't but it is a shame that a handful (relatively speaking) will look to make a quid off someone else's work.  In my case, I only draw what I want and having got what I want I don't really care if someone turns out to be less than honourable.

[A. Bastow]

With the printer sitting forlorn in the spare bedroom for a week, I have been reacquainting myself with Fusion 360 so I actually have something to print. A veritable cornucopia of L&Y wagons ensues (to Diagrams 1, 3, 62, 69 and 71) along with an experiment at mounting DG couplers on a 3d printed replacement to sit in the NEM pocket. 

The Dia. 3 has been in progress for many months but is now complete (I posted a picture of the first print last week). I know Masterclass Models has a Dia. 1 on the shapeways shop, (I do have a few) but I wanted to be able to produce them at will, hence why I redrew it. Both of these are intended to fit the LNWR 9' WB chassis from the 2mmSA shop. The Dias. 62, 69 and 71 are all intended to fit the 12' WB LYR chassis that the association does. 

 

The hole on the coupler replacement is to allow something like a split pin to be put in place through it and the DG, hopefully holding everything in place. 

 

Not bad for a week's hobbying! 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by A. Bastow

[Argos]

These wee gems landed during the week, they are Irish wagons designed and printed by KMCE over on the Irishrailwaymodeller forum.

 

He had designed them for 4mm scale but reduced them to 2mm and altered the design so the Association 13.7mm axles drop straight in, which after a quick play shows that with a bit of tweaking they do just that.

 

 

The quality is superb and I'm now defiantly sold on the idea of getting a printer, even if I means I have to re-learn CAD. Currently thinking of an Elegoo Mars but we'll see.

Edited November 27, 2021 by Argos

[njee20]

The Mars 2 is a great machine, currently hovering around £200. I wouldn’t bother with the extra for the Mars 3, which became available this week. 

[A. Bastow]

2 hours ago, njee20 said:

The Mars 2 is a great machine, currently hovering around £200. I wouldn’t bother with the extra for the Mars 3, which became available this week. 

 

I did pay the extra for the Mars 3. Very happy with it so far. Each to their own I suppose! 

I was musing on the topic of print orientation earlier today in regard to printing wagon bodies etc. If I orient the body with the roof away from the build plate allowing space for open supports inside the print then I shouldn't have a problem with vacuum formation should I? The model would effectively turn into a bucket with a few ml of resin that I can recover at the end of the print run.

 

Is this how everyone else does it, and are there reasons against doing it this way?

[njee20]

You’ll have the support marks on the roof to deal with, I’ve never actually tried printing upside down though! 
 

I find the optimal orientation varies by model, box wagons I rotate in two axes to mitigate the striations that eminate from the corners otherwise, most others I just angle in the Z by 20-40 degrees. There’s no right answer, basically I try and avoid presenting any flat surfaces to the build plate, as they’re liable to sag. 
 

Edited November 27, 2021 by njee20

[bradfordbuffer]

46 minutes ago, njee20 said:

You’ll have the support marks on the roof to deal with, I’ve never actually tried printing upside down though! 
 

I find the optimal orientation varies by model, box wagons I rotate in two axes to mitigate the striations that eminate from the corners otherwise, most others I just angle in the Z by 20-40 degrees. There’s no right answer, basically I try and avoid presenting any flat surfaces to the build plate, as they’re liable to sag. 
 

Oh nice ....are thay the naco Tilcon stone wagons? Did you draw yourself?

[njee20]

Thanks! They’re the ARC/Hanson JHAs, but yes, my drawing!

 

 

[monkeysarefun]

2 hours ago, A. Bastow said:

I did pay the extra for the Mars 3. Very happy with it so far. Each to their own I suppose! 

 

I got the Mars 3 on preorder for the equivalent of 225 pounds, free shipping to Australia and a year of Chitubox Pro. Then 2 weeks after it turned up I got a refund from Elegoo for 33 pounds- I have no idea why and dont want to ask them in case it was a mistake!  My best bargain of the year.

 

Its a smidge larger in print area than my original Mars and Photon which I have found useful for times when I dont want to lug my Saturn down to the shed.