3D Printing in 2mm Scale

[bradfordbuffer]

1 hour ago, njee20 said:

Thanks! They’re the ARC/Hanson JHAs, but yes, my drawing!

 

 

Super wagon....clever to know and have ability to draw.

[njee20]

Thanks! It's not a great CAD, it was my first effort, but I learned a huge amount doing it, and it led me to loads of other modern wagons! It was actually the reason I wanted to get a 3D printer; I've always liked those wagons, I completely butchered a OO gauge "Mendip Models" kit 20 years ago as a teenager! Technically it's N, not 2mm though I'm afraid, so not quite belonging here!

[bradfordbuffer]

7 hours ago, njee20 said:

Thanks! It's not a great CAD, it was my first effort, but I learned a huge amount doing it, and it led me to loads of other modern wagons! It was actually the reason I wanted to get a 3D printer; I've always liked those wagons, I completely butchered a OO gauge "Mendip Models" kit 20 years ago as a teenager! Technically it's N, not 2mm though I'm afraid, so not quite belonging here!

Tut tut the 'scale' police will be onto you...

I want to draw and print some ssa wagons for 3mm and lots of other projects....

[SandHutton]

Recommendations for 3D Resin Printer

 

So I have come to the point of purchase, I principally want the resin printer for 2mm FS work and some 4mm.  in 2mm and 4mm, the most challenging item I want to print is 2mm wheel centres and 2mm rolling stock.  ideally I want the best resolution and accuracy I can afford which takes precedence over the build area.  My short list is;

 

Sonic mini 4k - heard disappointing reviews about build quality and z axis wobble but impressed with some of the results notably from missy of 2mm fame

Anycubic Photon Mono SE - dual rail and built like a tank with good deals available - just not 4k

Anycubic Photon Mono 4k - not many reviews on this printer as its quite new.  Results seems similar to sonic mini 4k

Elegoo Mars 3 - seems good but not thrilled about the printer being tied to chitubox

 

or wait for 

 

Phozen sonic mini 8k

Anycubic Photon Ultra 

 

I will be buying a wash and cure station to suit.  I am happy to tinker but obviously there is a point at which you should just buy a better machine

 

Thanks, Its probably the most asked question on 3D printing boards.  

 

Guy

Edited November 29, 2021 by SandHutton

[bradfordbuffer]

3 hours ago, SandHutton said:

Recommendations for 3D Resin Printer

 

So I have come to the point of purchase, I principally want the resin printer for 2mm FS work and some 4mm.  in 2mm and 4mm, the most challenging item I want to print is 2mm wheel centres and 2mm rolling stock.  ideally I want the best resolution and accuracy I can afford which takes precedence over the build area.  My short list is;

 

Sonic mini 4k - heard disappointing reviews about build quality and z axis wobble but impressed with some of the results notably from missy of 2mm fame

Anycubic Photon Mono SE - dual rail and built like a tank with good deals available - just not 4k

Anycubic Photon Mono 4k - not many reviews on this printer as its quite new.  Results seems similar to sonic mini 4k

Elegoo Mars 3 - seems good but not thrilled about the printer being tied to chitubox

 

or wait for 

 

Phozen sonic mini 8k

Anycubic Photon Ultra 

 

I will be buying a wash and cure station to suit.  I am happy to tinker but obviously there is a point at which you should just buy a better machine

 

Thanks, Its probably the most asked question on 3D printing boards.  

 

Guy

I have a mono x and a mono plus wash and cure....printed a test veedub beetle in 3mm! Lost on plate ridiculous in 8.5 lts of Ipa! But if I printed 15 cars all good, snap lid plastic or better glass dish full of ipa good for small items...ellegoo do a small curing station that hopefully Santa delivering so small items can be cured without firing up the big boys toys...

Curestation currently 42quid...or you can make your self how toos on YouTube 

[Crosland]

There's no way the Elegoo cure station is worth £65.00. It's not even worth £42.50. I paid £55 late last year, I would not buy another.

 

The turntable is a small solar powered one (I was surprised when I unpacked it and it started turning with no power!), about £5 on ebay.

 

UV LEDs are easy to get hold of. Power supply for the LEDs, £5 max.

 

The buttons do not have any "debounce" and it's very difficult to set the time accurately, making it frustrating to use.

 

The case is nicely built, that's only kind thing I can say.

 

[njee20]

I have to agree. The wash and cure stations for ~£110 are good, but the standard Elegoo one curing lamp definitely not. 
 

I personally wouldn’t obsess over the resolution, you’re talking very small differences on smaller build volumes. I say that as someone without a small 4K printer though! I find I’m not limited by the resolution; I printed this registration arm earlier on my Mars 2 Pro. I rather optimistically notched the two arms for some EZ-Line (spoiler alert - no chance, it’s way too flexy!), but that printed fine, at 0.15mm. 
 

 

of the ones you choose I’d have the Mars 3. Elegoo have the market on customer care it seems. Although I’ve had good support from Anycubic on an original Photon they seem hit and miss, and Phrozen seem to suffer similarly, with worse machine reliability. 
 

You can still process files in Lychee or similar if you want, and just slice in Chitubox. I suspect we’ll see an expansion in future anyway.  

 

Edit: I checked that image on my phone and it wasn't obnoxiously large, yet on the PC it's far bigger, apologies!

Edited November 29, 2021 by njee20
Fixing duplicate image

[monkeysarefun]

Ive got 3 different  Mars printers plus a sad abandoned no longer working  original Photon so I cant comment on the other brands or the later Anycubics. I can say though that the  resolution between my 2K and 4K ones  is so similar to be not distinguishable to me for the things I print.  Maybe if I was into fantasy figures with chain mail and so on where tiny details are all the rage it would be a selling point  but for architectural parts, wagon sides etc the resolution of the 2K printer is more than adequate.

 

I just watched an Elegoo comparison video where the bloke resorts to using  a USB microscope to compare 2K and 4K prints - if thats what it takes to tell them apart then the 2K is perfectly fine, especially for things that get viewed from model railway layout distance and have a coat or two  of paint on them. 

 

I've found that often resin quality/age/temperature etc  and / or settings can make a bigger difference to a print than whether its 2K or 4K printed. 

 

For me I've found some of the actual design choices of the individual printers would  be more a deciding factor if I was going to buy them now,  given everything else is pretty much the  same (resolution, build size, finished quality etc...) these days. Things that you overlook when reading the specs but when you take them out the box and put  them in place think "why did they do that?!" or "well, thats annoying!"

 

For instance where my printers are located the rear USB port on the original Photon was a major issue since I didn't have easy access to the rear of the printer since it was against a wall. Front ones are best for me, side ones a bit of a pain but ok. many other people however hate front USB  slots with a passion because it gets in their way, the USB sticks out and might get broken off and theres a risk of resin getting in there...

 

 

 

. Also the Mars 3 vat lifts straight up  and off the printer, the Saturn and original Mars slide across the LCD screen under some brackets. I personally prefer the Mars 3 design because I hate having to slide the vat across the LCD screen since I always seem to manage to smear resin somehow, and if the vat sticks - which it can do especially on high humidity days we get here in the balmy subtropics its a pain trying to tug it out, the Mars 3 I can wiggle it in more directions to unstick it. However some might hate the detachable bolts of the Mars 3 design because  there is a risk of putting them down somewhere forgotten, or dropping them into the vat..

 

Also, the  Mars 3 vat is slightly deeper than the Mars and the Saturn which I like because there's a bit less chance of slopping resin over the side when carrying the vat around after the print is done because I am very clumsy and usually trip over something between printer and workbench.

 

Other design choices that dont affect me might be a problem for others, such as front  opening door  vs  lift off lid  if vertical space is an issue - printer under a shelf, inside a cabinet or whatever.  Others prefer the all round access that the lift off top provides. I like it but have issues with where to put the top safely  when its off (see comment about tripping over something between printer and workbench...)

 

 

 

All that said though, none of those features are deal breakers, just design quirks that work for me . Oh, maybe the rear USB slot, that I'd have to think about  - but apart from that it wouldn't stop me getting a particular printer if the price was right. Actually, come to think of it thats  what  I've based  all my  new  printer purchase decisions on  "cos it was on special and I couldnt say no" rather than any particular  feature I needed to have.   Ok, the Saturn was bigger so thats why I bought that one... but apart from that, its been some 30% off one day only special  price thats made it a must buy for me!

 

Oh, the speed of the mono screens compared to the originals is chalk and cheese,  that's the major step forward  that's personally affected me since the original photon. You never notice how long a print took when it works out, but walk into the print room to see an empty build plate and you instantly think "16 hours wasted!" So if there was one thing I'd say for  sure it'd be go with a mono screen! 

 

Agree with the above re wash and cure stations. Cleaning up prints was a complete pain before they arrived. I got the original Anycubic one last year and it was a revelation - so much so that I've ordered the Mercury X in the black friday sales so I can cure stuff off my Saturn the 21st century way rather than swish them around in a dish like they were doing back in the  1840s or whatever.

... 

Edited November 29, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[monkeysarefun]

Just one extra  thing re the 4K vs 2K decision. I just got to work and remembered I had this which has been sitting  my desk for the last 4 years, getting bashed around and covered in dust.   I have a few 3D thingies here in case people ever ask about them which they don't.

 

This one was one of the first things I printed -  before I knew about supports, ideal printing angles etc.  It was printed on my 2017  model Anycubic Photon - the original, so 2K screen, no anti-aliasing, flat to the bed, straight up and down, no supports, no fancypants  angling, .05mm resolution, using the original  version of the Anycubic slicing software and printed in  the standard green translucent stuff that came free  with the printer.

 

It was cleaned by swishing around in a container of IPA for a bit then stuck in the  oz  sun for the day to cure..  Its been sprayed with some standard grey Rustoleum primer spraycan from the hardware shop.

 

Yet despite all those handicaps or lack of later refinements in resin, printer hardware and slicing software , cleaning and curing,  painting  etc it still has  what I'd call pretty good  detail. I don't think printing it on my 2021 4K Mars 3, sliced in the latest anti-aliasing slicer software, printed in  some  new fancy resin, curing and cleaning in a curing station and spraying with model primer through an  airbrush would produce a markedly better result, at least not one that is visible from normal viewing distance.... Maybe I'll reprint it one day just to see.

 

 

By the way if anyone is interested the file was from the "Scan The World"  bit of myminifactory.com  which has some cool statue-y and other  stuff for free if you want to show off your printer, including the Albert Memorial amongst its catalogue.. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2021 by monkeysarefun

[Bedders]

14 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

All that said though, none of those features are deal breakers, just design quirks that work for me . Oh, maybe the rear USB slot, that I'd have to think about

A short usb extension cable can help

[monkeysarefun]

8 hours ago, Bedders said:

A short usb extension cable can help

Agreed but I  could never get a cable to work successfully with that early photon, it was often  unable to read files when the USB stick was plugged into it  via a cable.  I know USB sticks issues  were rather common  with it, it was very particular about USB stick capacity for instance, several users on the photon Facebook group at the time  reported 16gb as the upper limit for instance and complained that the original USB that came with the printer wouldn't be recognised etc. 

 Mine worked ok with 32gb but would   stop recognising individual sticks after a while.

 

It's dead now though so the issue has resolved itself!  I assume later photons and subsequent Anycubic models   have the USB issue  sorted.

[Crosland]

On 29/11/2021 at 19:22, monkeysarefun said:

I just watched an Elegoo comparison video where the bloke resorts to using  a USB microscope to compare 2K and 4K prints - if thats what it takes to tell them apart then the 2K is perfectly fine, especially for things that get viewed from model railway layout distance and have a coat or two  of paint on them. 

 

You have to remember that a doubling of the screen pixel count does not give a "doubling" of quality, i.e., the minimum feature size is not half the original, but nearer 70%.

 

[monkeysarefun]

19 minutes ago, Crosland said:

 

You have to remember that a doubling of the screen pixel count does not give a "doubling" of quality, i.e., the minimum feature size is not half the original, but nearer 70%.

 

Yeah that was the point I was trying to make , a 4K screen does not produce markedly better resolution prints than a 2K, or  at least the difference will probably not even be noticeable  when the result will be painted and  placed on a model railway layout rather than viewed from close range or  through a microscope. 

[SandHutton]

Interesting point, I had quite forgotten that the 4k resolution doesn't equate to twice the definition although still an improvement.  I think the most detailed items I am likely to print are 2mm bogie side frames and although I will likely have to avoid putting rivets on the print, the outcome should be pretty acceptable.  

 

Thanks for all your advice guys

 

Guy

[queensquare]

On 27/11/2021 at 22:27, njee20 said:

Thanks! It's not a great CAD, it was my first effort, but I learned a huge amount doing it, and it led me to loads of other modern wagons! It was actually the reason I wanted to get a 3D printer; I've always liked those wagons, I completely butchered a OO gauge "Mendip Models" kit 20 years ago as a teenager! Technically it's N, not 2mm though I'm afraid, so not quite belonging here!

 

Bit modern for me but superb wagons which I see regularly locally.

 

Don't worry about the N, 2mm thing - this is very much about the 2mm scales family. The important thing is about people making stuff and sharing the results.

 

Jerry

[A. Bastow]

Progress!

Love it when things work as intended.

 

I showed off the drawings for some L&Y wagons the other day and I have now made a successful test print of the Dia.62 covered goods. The Dia.3 will be the next one, followed by the Dia.1.

 

When I have proved that they work and fit on the association etches, I’ll get them listed on the 3d printing section of the 2mmSA website.
 

 

[bradfordbuffer]

 

On 29/11/2021 at 16:30, Crosland said:

 

 

 

On 29/11/2021 at 16:30, Crosland said:

There's no way the Elegoo cure station is worth £65.00. It's not even worth £42.50. I paid £55 late last year, I would not buy another.

 

The turntable is a small solar powered one (I was surprised when I unpacked it and it started turning with no power!), about £5 on ebay.

 

UV LEDs are easy to get hold of. Power supply for the LEDs, £5 max.

 

The buttons do not have any "debounce" and it's very difficult to set the time accurately, making it frustrating to use.

 

The case is nicely built, that's only kind thing I can say.

 

Understand your comments but for 42½ quid mine just arrived...function buttons perfectly OK, cured as expected...personally it's genius using uv powered turntable! Solid tube with sturdy handle ideal for 2 to 3 3mm 4w wagons ...I'm sure if I was to make my own it would end up been extra large suitcase size with powered opening lid with multiple turntables so for once ....KISS

regards G

Edited December 1, 2021 by bradfordbuffer
I'm a idiot!

[Sithlord75]

9 hours ago, A. Bastow said:

Progress!

Love it when things work as intended.

 

I showed off the drawings for some L&Y wagons the other day and I have now made a successful test print of the Dia.62 covered goods. The Dia.3 will be the next one, followed by the Dia.1.

 

When I have proved that they work and fit on the association etches, I’ll get them listed on the 3d printing section of the 2mmSA website.
 

 

Nice work Adam - I'll put my hand up.  I am hoping to get a couple more LNWR wagons done in the near future. 

[njee20]

On 30/11/2021 at 21:59, SandHutton said:

Interesting point, I had quite forgotten that the 4k resolution doesn't equate to twice the definition although still an improvement.  I think the most detailed items I am likely to print are 2mm bogie side frames and although I will likely have to avoid putting rivets on the print, the outcome should be pretty acceptable.  

 

Thanks for all your advice guys

 

Guy

These were printed on an original Mars printer (just because I find it easier to leave the blend of flexible resin I use for bogies in one printer), a TF-25 and a NACO swing motion. The swing motion is over exposed, I’ve lost the spring detail in the middle, but it was a test. The bolt heads on the axle boxes are visible (just!) though. Usual caveats about awful close ups, I swear these look better even at unnaturally close viewing, but the camera doesn’t lie!

 

[justin1985]

2 hours ago, njee20 said:

These were printed on an original Mars printer (just because I find it easier to leave the blend of flexible resin I use for bogies in one printer),

 

What is the resin 'recipe' you've used for these? Looks like a very effective self coloured black (?) and flexible as well would be great! I've still never actually tried mixing different resins ...

[njee20]

I use 1 part Siraya Tenacious to 3 parts Anycubic Black. Honestly it’s utterly transformative. I do find there a slight loss of detail, but for couplings, bogies etc it’s totally worth it. 

[bradfordbuffer]

44 minutes ago, njee20 said:

I use 1 part Siraya Tenacious to 3 parts Anycubic Black. Honestly it’s utterly transformative. I do find there a slight loss of detail, but for couplings, bogies etc it’s totally worth it. 

What g code did you use? Found anycubic black when used for some dewalt tool holders to be a bit grainy and layer lines showing...could of been due to black giving more shadows? 

[njee20]

gcode sounds more like FDM printing...? I can't honestly remember what settings I use; something like 50 second base, 8.5 second exposure (RGB screen). I recall I use 2.8 seconds on mono screens; slightly longer for the black/Tenacious blend versus my normal grey resin.

I only use the black for things that I want to end up black, like bogies, to forgive poor (or no) painting, so I've not really printed anything big enough to notice. Biggest thing I've printed is the TF25 above scaled up to O gauge; and that did have pretty obvious layer lines. Looked fine once painted though, so you may be right about the shadows and refraction.

 

O Gauge IIA by njee20, on Flickr

Edited December 4, 2021 by njee20

[MrSimon]

On 01/12/2021 at 13:29, A. Bastow said:

Progress!

Love it when things work as intended.

 

I showed off the drawings for some L&Y wagons the other day and I have now made a successful test print of the Dia.62 covered goods. The Dia.3 will be the next one, followed by the Dia.1.

 

When I have proved that they work and fit on the association etches, I’ll get them listed on the 3d printing section of the 2mmSA website.
 

 

These look great, can’t wait!

[Atso]

Late to the discussion (as usual!) but another vote here for the 25% Tenacious mix, though in my case with Anycubic Grey resin which I've been playing with for the last week.

 

The Fox bogies below were printed using the above mix (after numerous breakages trying to get the wheels in using just grey resin). N gauge wheels with 15mm axles requiring quite a bit of flex to get them in. Printed at 50 microns with a 2 second exposure on my Mono.