N gauge J94

[TomJ]

I noticed at Warley that the N gauge J94 is now open for expressions of interest via the website. No money required yet so not sure if it’s a definite project or gauging interest.

 

There doesn’t seem to have been much announcement about it so thought I’d mention it here in case people are interested and might have missed it.

[08-362]

I only found out because somebody else mentioned that news was being released on the website, I think I read that on the King thread?

 

Every option available in OO is there, including the RMWeb exclusive "65". Until "66" (the last standard gauge steam locomotive made in Britain until Tornado) gets made I'm most interested in Wilbert.

 

I hope it does come to fruition, this is a project that was announced around the time I got into the hobby and have been looking forward to since.

[Les1952]

Not quite every option. There are ten in all.

NCB No.7 Littleton Colliery - in 4mm this is a Hattons one

MSC Grey No.65. - I can't remember the origin of this one in 4mm

LMR Blue 196 Errol Lonsdale - ditto

3806 Wilbert Rev.W.Awdrey OBE - a special in 4mm

3889 NCB 65 - the RMWeb Yellow Peril in 4mm

NCB No.2 area 69 in lined black - in 4mm this is in the next batch.

NCB Peckfield lined maroon - in 4mm another Hattons one.

NBC Bickershaw "Hurricane" in green - anther Hattons one in 4mm

BR Early crest 68061

BR late crest 68049


Expressions of interest ONLY through the DJM website. I've signed up for one each of the BR ones (a high and a low bunker I hope) plus two NCB so far, total four. I'm still tempted by a couple more as both Hawthorn Dene and Croft Spa can use them.

Les

 

Edited for typo (guess who can't type his own layout name without bogging it up....

Edited November 26, 2018 by Les1952

[bluedepot]

thanks

 

I've expressed interest in one now

 

hopefully it will get enough support

 

 

Tim

[class8mikado]

But surely this one was mooted at least two years ago... am still interested so id better go formally express that

[08-362]

But surely this one was mooted at least two years ago... am still interested so id better go formally express that

It was never mooted, just one of the projects put to one side until funds from other projects (primarily the OO version) started rolling in.

 

I think the O scale version is in doubt, but the N one certainly wasn't. That might change with the recent rise in popularity for O scale.

[grahame]

There has been little comment or updates on this thread (N gauge J94) for over three months. I wonder if there is still any interest in it. The problem with Dave no longer posting information on any forum is that it doesn't keep projects in the public eye and confirm that it hasn't died or been forgotten about. Even if there is little or no model development progress some sort of regular update regarding EOIs/orders would help one know if it was worth joining in and whether your EIO/order will make a difference.

 

For example I understand that there were 84 EOIs for the J94 at the start of this year but it would be helpful to know now, a little over two months later, what the latest figure is. That way people can judge if it is likely to get anywhere near the required quantity in a reasonable/acceptable timescale and whether it is worth investing/signing up for this and/or any other projects. I believe there have been some adverts in the model railway press but in a limited number of titles and issues and not about all projects. Providing information here and on other forums would help market the various projects.

 

G

 

[woodenhead]

I could imagine having the EOI numbers listed against a model with a viability target could help and hinder.

 

If the figures are low and remain low then it may turn people off the idea whereas as you get closer to the final figure more people may see it as a viable offering and sign up and those already interested may add to their tally - but of course the EOI probably needs to extend well beyond the actual economic figure to produce the model as actual deposits are always lower than the EOI it seems.

[grahame]

2 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I could imagine having the EOI numbers listed against a model with a viability target could help and hinder.

 

If the figures are low and remain low then it may turn people off the idea whereas as you get closer to the final figure more people may see it as a viable offering and sign up and those already interested may add to their tally - but of course the EOI probably needs to extend well beyond the actual economic figure to produce the model as actual deposits are always lower than the EOI it seems.

 

There doesn't have to be a target mentioned (although that would be nice) but if there has been no change in the EOIs in three/six months then it's a fair bet that there is little interest in the project and/or that it needs some promotional activity. And potentially it's probably not worth getting on board without it. With no updates and information about progress on announced projects it can seem like a land grab with little intent or enthusiasm to progress them. Perhaps confirmation that they are extinct or cancelled needs to be published so that potential customers can focus on the higher profile ones that are being progressed.

 

For example I'm very interested in two DJM projects announced some years back - the class 23 and the class 59 - but there has been almost zero update and news about them. The DJM website hasn't been updated about them and the class 59 is no longer featured with no new news about the class 23. Even the higher profile projects have not been updated on the website: the King section it still says "pre-order book closes once model goes to tooling in late August / early September 2018" and the class 17 is still featured although it says it is the "subject of a dispute and therefore will not feature within a reasonable time frame."

 

G.

[RedgateModels]

I can't see Dave working on any more projects until he has survived the APT, King and 92. He has enough on his plate with those to say the least!

[woodenhead]

It depends what else he is working on and for who, he does say he has other stuff.

 

I could be barking up the wrong tree and it's just a bit of mischief by Hattons or a simple mistake but there is a pre-owned model of 10203 on the site and Hattons list it as a DJM/Kernow exclusive.  I didn't think it was a DJ Model, it's not marked as such like the Gate Stock on Kernow's site.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/434889/DJ_Models_Dave_Jones_K2704_PO_Bulleid_1_Co_Co_1_10203_in_BR_Green_with_late_crest_Kernow_Exclusive_Pre_owned/StockDetail.aspx

Edited March 6, 2019 by woodenhead
link added

[grahame]

10 minutes ago, RedgateModels said:

I can't see Dave working on any more projects until he has survived the APT, King and 92. He has enough on his plate with those to say the least!

 

I'm not so sure that there is any progress/working on those three (in N gauge) as there doesn't seem to be any update information announced/posted for quite a while. And the DJM website doesn't seem to be up to date. The APT has this :  "This N gauge model is purely provisional at this stage, and is available to express an interest now". The class 92 doesn't even have the CADs mentioned or whether they are complete and signed off, while the King is still mentioned as going to tooling over six months ago.

 

It's all rather vague and worrying. Such a shame.

 

[Roy L S]

It is with much regret that I say this, but the J94 was a popular and very well established in the Farish range over many years, and the reason for the lack of take up here must surely be lack of visible promotion and in addition very possibly the lack of progress of other models delivering an established track record.  All we have seen on the other crowdfunded projects so far to gauge things by for the likes of the King, are 3D prints, which while nice, really do not reflect much progress beyond CAD to show and nothing really tangible or mechanical. Sorry to be blunt but it really is the truth of the matter.

 

The info I have is the same as Grahame, less that 100 expressions of interest last count, possibly more now as that was two months ago(?) but even as a subscriber to the project I don't know.

 

The J94 model (AKA 18 inch Hunslet I believe) has, as well as the various BR incarnations, an enormous number of livery choices, both industrial and military, and with a realistic price-point (which his model certainly appears to have) should not only be a good all round choice of loco in N, but provide huge scope for re-runs (either within limited tooling configuration or tooled to accommodate detail differences). This should be, especially in a modern updated DCC ready (fitted?) form, a highly popular model at the sub £100 price point. Were it down to me, I would try to keep the design flexible but simple without too many tooling variations, even if it rendered some more obscure choices (Giesel Ejector exhaust?!) impossible. Mechanically just a single driven axle and use of sufficiently strong rods to take drive to other wheels like Farish, it is simple, reliable and effective. Gear coupling is not only unnecessary it is an additional cost and complication, but I'm not sure if we even have an up to date technical spec yet based on the here and now and experience of the 00 version??

 

The 00 one was to be the "cash cow" for products that followed and there is no reason why, once tooled and crowd funding models have been delivered the same shouldn't be true of the loco in N notwithstanding the smaller Market. BUT it needs massively more dynamic promotion than is currently being seen and very visible communication of progress with pics. A platform such as RM Web has been this up to recently, and while understanding Dave's reasons for withdrawal, sometimes the positives massively outweigh the negatives and as I see it (my opinion) the decision has resulted in a massive loss of traction promotion wise on all models. I don't know the technical limitations of RM Web technology but couldn't (for example) there be a way to limit topics to updates only by the originator? Questions to be referred to the manufacturer website directly?

 

Roy

[AY Mod]

13 minutes ago, Roy L S said:

I don't know the technical limitations of RM Web technology but couldn't (for example) there be a way to limit topics to updates only by the originator?

 

No technical limitation but it won't be happening I'm afraid.

[Roy L S]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

No technical limitation but it won't be happening I'm afraid.

 

Hi Andy

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

In that case I hope Dave can another way of promoting his models/projects in a more visible and dynamic way.

 

Regards

 

Roy

[D9020 Nimbus]

The trouble is that DJM has lost a lot of credibility as a result of the stalled class 17 (and class 74 for that matter). The OO J94 is the only loco they have produced on their own account, and the retailers who once commissioned them have, by and large, gone elsewhere.

 

All the DJM announcements are doing at the moment is to deter others from producing these models. I must admit to having zero confidence in DJM ever producing another model. Ever.

[woodenhead]

DJM isn't 'they' its a 'him'

 

Revolution, Cavalex, Hattons are a 'they'

 

As such Dave is very much a one man band commissioning factories to build his models for him.

 

The stalled N gauge J94 is probably not going to get picked up by another because he's probably sold enough in OO to satisfy the market for the time being - that said is the market for Terriers so big that Hornby and Rails/Dapol can produce a lot of models so maybe there is still a chance of another OO J94 that might lead to an N J94.  Dave may yet get enough EOI to produce his J94 in N as well.

 

I agree his credibility has taken a battering over the past 12 months but it's not over till he says it's over and he is a trier.

[south_tyne]

10 hours ago, woodenhead said:

DJM isn't 'they' its a 'him'

 

Revolution, Cavalex, Hattons are a 'they'

 

As such Dave is very much a one man band commissioning factories to build his models for him.

 

The stalled N gauge J94 is probably not going to get picked up by another because he's probably sold enough in OO to satisfy the market for the time being - that said is the market for Terriers so big that Hornby and Rails/Dapol can produce a lot of models so maybe there is still a chance of another OO J94 that might lead to an N J94.  Dave may yet get enough EOI to produce his J94 in N as well.

 

I agree his credibility has taken a battering over the past 12 months but it's not over till he says it's over and he is a trier.

 

10 hours ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

The trouble is that DJM has lost a lot of credibility as a result of the stalled class 17 (and class 74 for that matter). The OO J94 is the only loco they have produced on their own account, and the retailers who once commissioned them have, by and large, gone elsewhere.

 

All the DJM announcements are doing at the moment is to deter others from producing these models. I must admit to having zero confidence in DJM ever producing another model. Ever.

 

Agreed. Dave and the DJM brand has taken a hit over the last couple of years but he is undoubtedly still working hard and I for one hope he can ride through these tough times and realise success. 

 

As for 'his' announcements putting of other manufacturers, I think that is simply not true. As woodenhead points out, there has been quite a bit of duplication in the market recently.

 

If another manufacturer feels they could make a commercial success of a product that DJM has announced but not progressed to date then they would undoubtedly go for it. If there are took for two Terriers then anything is possible......

 

To be honest the Austerity tank is probably one of the few classes that should be a winner for any manufacturer; widespread, ubiquitous, used both in industrial and mainline settings and mainstay of preserved railways. I'm surprised someone else hasn't picked up and ran with a lock in 2mm scale and 7mm scale. I am a little biased as I really like the prototype, but I think both would be massive sellers (admittedly based on no evidence and from a compete laypersons point of view )

[Sam Moss]

I predict the 7mm Austerity to be snaffled by Dapol in a year or two's time. 

Dave scored a massive own goal by withdrawing off here. He'd already gained a bit of a reputation and just fuelled the negative opinions people held of him by going reclusive. He promised the world with some of his ideas and sadly they failed. Take the 4mm Austerities, the body shell is a work of art but the chassis, its 30 year old predecessor now made by Hornby runs far better. You need to get the basics right to be on to a winner. 

I for one won't be trusting any money upfront in DJModels until he shows signs of delivering a lot more stuff and actually started communicating with his potential buyers!

[south_tyne]

23 hours ago, Sam Moss said:

I predict the 7mm Austerity to be snaffled by Dapol in a year or two's time. 

 

Very selfishly, I hope that prediction comes true!

 

2019 is going to be a big year for DJM and fingers crossed it is much more positive and products start to trickle through to the market in a variety of scales.

[RedgateModels]

On 10/03/2019 at 01:44, Sam Moss said:

its 30 year old predecessor now made by Hornby runs far better

 

Can't argue with that, my two Hornbys run faultlessly on Summat Colliery, Harry with his DCC sound and small stay alive capacitor will crawl along on speed step 1 all day at a show

 

I keep persisting with my DJM "Yellow Peril" and it will get another chance at the Mansfield 2020 show once I have fitted Bachmann couplings as the DJM ones are too droopy and can't be "BK" converted .....

[rope runner]

On 10/03/2019 at 01:44, Sam Moss said:

Dave scored a massive own goal by withdrawing off here. He'd already gained a bit of a reputation and just fuelled the negative opinions people held of him by going reclusive. He promised the world with some of his ideas and sadly they failed. Take the 4mm Austerities, the body shell is a work of art but the chassis, its 30 year old predecessor now made by Hornby runs far better. You need to get the basics right to be on to a winner. 

I for one won't be trusting any money upfront in DJModels until he shows signs of delivering a lot more stuff and actually started communicating with his potential buyers!

 

Personally, I feel Dave is to be applauded for putting his money where his mouth is and entering the market. I'm sure he is much more knowledgeable both in terms of marketing, product design etc than those who choose to snipe him on a safe forum where he no longer posts. 

 

I'm sorry, but I can't let this lie and I feel I must also say this - The tone of such remarks is frankly disrespectful and flippant towards what is essentially a one man band (in this case DJ Models). One has to wonder if such attitudes and posts would be tolerated/posed on the small supplier section of this forum. 

 

Paul A. 

[black and decker boy]

17 hours ago, 1whitemoor said:

 

Personally, I feel Dave is to be applauded for putting his money where his mouth is and entering the market. I'm sure he is much more knowledgeable both in terms of marketing, product design etc than those who choose to snipe him on a safe forum where he no longer posts. 

 

I'm sorry, but I can't let this lie and I feel I must also say this - The tone of such remarks is frankly disrespectful and flippant towards what is essentially a one man band (in this case DJ Models). One has to wonder if such attitudes and posts would be tolerated/posed on the small supplier section of this forum. 

 

Paul A. 

But he is right. The J94 mechanism is not fit for purpose in 00. It doesn’t matter how much more experience he has in marketing if the product doesn’t ‘set new standards’ and is in fact worse than its competition. 

 

As for the tone of the post, there is nothing controversial to me and you will read far worse levelled against the main RTR manufacturers and some small suppliers.

[RedgateModels]

9 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

The J94 mechanism is not fit for purpose in 00

 

Bit harsh, I agree it's not as good as a well run in ex-Dapol mech due to possible issues with over tight meshing of the worm gear and a over zealous use of tiny coreless motors that make it a bit jerky going down inclines but with care it can be made to run well.

 

I do agree that this should not have happened after the initial boasts from DJ. His aftersales was not as good as he promised either. There was no offer to have my Yellow Peril back for checks etc, just a message to give it more running in

 

 

[PMP]

5 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

 

but with care it can be made to run well.

 

 

What do you do to make it run better? I’d like to see a before and after example. Mine has not responded at all to any modifications, and the six others I’ve had through my workshop all have the same issues . 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipy7Zn4N5kY