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Parkside 13 ton hopper wagon


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Thanks for the reply.

 

It sounds worth a try. However, just got back from walking the dog and I was wondering if it is feasible to replace the bottom doors with lead; shave the top detail off the doors and stick it to the lead.

 

Two ideas to try.

 

Thanks again.

TonyK

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  • 2 weeks later...
31 minutes ago, Asterix2012 said:

Which LNER design was this based on and how easy/difficult would it be to backdate?

An LNER drawing but order built after nationalisation, these may be a LNER order cancelled and reinstated as an accountancy/paper exercise by BR.

 

The previous build of 13 ton hoppers by BR was all timber construction to the LNER drawings! 

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So, do I take it that Peco have started supplying Parkside kits with plastic wheels, as opposed to the metal ones plus bearings we used to get from original Parkside? A step backwards, IMHO.  John D.

AIUI, the kits nowadays come with Gibson wheels, which have plastic centres,  steel rims and  axles with bearings still included. Parkside made this change at least a couple of years before the business was transferred to Peco.

 

They are quite a bit lighter than the old brass Romfords that used to be included. I think the change occurred because Romfords ceased to be available in the quantities Parkside needed.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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AIUI, the kits nowadays come with Gibson wheels, plastic centres with steel rims and bearings still included. Parkside made this change at least a couple of years before the business was transferred to Peco.

 

John

I assume 'straits settlements' was alluding to the earlier comment in the thread   "I substituted metal wheels for those supplied with the kit for a little additional weight" which can be interpreted as meaning plastic wheels are supplied.

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6 hours ago, Straits Settlements said:

So, do I take it that Peco have started supplying Parkside kits with plastic wheels, as opposed to the metal ones plus bearings we used to get from original Parkside? A step backwards, IMHO.  John D.

John, 

             Sorry for any confusion caused. The wheels provided in the kit are Gibson constructed as described above. I have standardised on a brand of rtr wheel for all my wagons. These are all-metal and as such do add a little weight to the wagon above the supplied Gibson wheels. HTH.

 Incidentally, these still seem to be rarer than hen's teeth. Waiting on 4 more from a large supplier to accompany my J27 order.

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

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  • 1 month later...

I have one running now. They are light with no really obvious place to add ballast for

stability. Mine still has to be fully painted and decaled, so a few fractions of a gram to add.

Mine weighs in at 11.04 grams.

Now I'll be controversial by saying I don't like adding weight unless absolutely necessary. So a

question, How long a train do you want to pull behind these ? Mine sits in a train of mostly

kit built wagons and runs around my garage test track so far without problems. An admission,

there is no way I'd expect to reverse this through points pushing this lot !!

 

IMG_4191.JPG.699f7c240340548b76ea5388446e7a86.JPG

 

Mention is made in the thread regarding the Alan Gibson wheels. Yes these dainty scale type wheel sets are plastic wheels with steel tyres and changing to all metal wheels will add some weight. Beware because the AG wheels are in my opinion slightly under size, coming out at 12.06 mm on my vernier. The kit clearences are made for this and if you fit any big manufacturer wheels like Bachmann, Dapol, or Hornby they will foul brake shoes and on some kits the underbody framework.

The other killer with AG wheels is the highly magnetic wheel tyres that cause severe setting problems if you want to use with Kadee couplers. As I don't intend to use this on one of my Kadee layouts I'm keeping to the AG wheel sets.

I didn't use the build instructions as shown, preferring to make a chassis and add the end platform grab rails. Make the hopper as a separate item and splice on scraping joints to get as near a perfect fit as possible. One coat of paint has sealed all those lower joints making my hopper watertight.

Grab rail wires tend to split out of the moulded holes, but quite honestly it made fitting so much easier. Yes measurements for bending would help. I noted 6.5 mm for the platform end grab rails, 10.0 mm for each end on the long rail, with a centre section of 31.0 mm. Certainly worked for me !!

 

Regarding weight, in this train there is a Cambrian 10T Stone wagon that tops the scales at 12.64 grams with it's deep flange Hornby wheel sets. It's been pulling up to 24 wagons behind it without derailing.

 

Geoff T.

 

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I ballast kit-built wagons up to at least the weight of r-t-r ones (I aim for 35-40 grams without being too finicky about absolute consistency), then I have no worries of any at the front of the train being pulled off the track by the weight of what is behind them.

 

When using Kadees, any unwanted uncoupler interaction is more likely to involve the axles, which contain much more iron than Gibson tyres. Other makes without steel tyres are by no means immune.

 

I've been using Kadees for donkeys years and have found that wagons weighted to around 20 grams per axle are much less prone to "magnetic shunting", whatever wheels are used.

 

If I need to dismantle r-t-r wagons to fit Kadees, I add an extra 5-10g while I'm at it. My preferred method is to replace the steel weight with lead flashing, thereby removing another possible source of attraction and making up any weight lost by changing the wheels to Gibsons to ensure uniformity across my stock.

 

John

Edited by Dunsignalling
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Hi Dunsignalling,

 

Every one to their own principals, so long as stock stays on the track it must be an acceptable

answer. As ever in this hobby there are differing views and just to show why I resist adding

what I may see as unnecessary drawbar weight here the unballasted 13 ton hopper manages

beyond reason !!

 

https://youtu.be/bxM-MT3HY-U

 

Geoff T.

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I was always told 25 grammes per axle. So about 50 grammes total weight for a four wheel wagon. Which is approximately the weight of a Mars Bar which is handy if you have those small balanced scales. Then you can eat the Mars Bar!

 

About two ounces in old money.

 

 

However many of mine also have to work with whitemetal wagon kits which are quite heavy. 51L wagons weigh in about 45 to 60 grammes. Look at Addition Information on these two examples.

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/wagons/gcrd021/

 

https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/wagons/gcrd006a/

 

 

Oxford Rail 6 Plank about the same.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/254681/oxford_rail_or76mw6001w_6_plank_mineral_wagon_in_lner_grey_weathered/stockdetail.aspx

 

Dapol also about the same.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/409067/dapol_4f_052_023_5_plank_open_wagon_a_telling_oxford_/stockdetail.aspx

 

Yes, I know that includes packaging, but that's negligible and probably a few grammes.

 

 

Jason

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I'll not try this again for a while !

The first production of these wagons had no black panels.

I decided to try making 400520 & 400035 diagram 1/142 using the HMRS BR wagon pressfix sheet.

I'd used a few bits off the sheet before and remembered that each subject is rather tight to

it's neighbours. Plus being very small (in scale) they are very difficult to work with. In my case to see.

 

I've tried before painting the chassis, probably because I thought it might go wrong and I wanted to

do it before I see the opticians on Wednesday.

 

 

IMG_4201.JPG.2a15805e5ee3cc0f64a816eaccde2a98.JPG

 

From checking the few pictures I could find I also note that the early production had a weight of

9-10, that decal came from some Fox Decals.

 

All future versions will be made using the kit decals.

 

Geoff T.

Edited by Dad-1
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  • 2 weeks later...

Called in to the Peco shop last week whilst on holiday in Devon. My shopping list consisted of two PC90 kits and a bullhead code 75 slip. I wasn't optimistic about either so I wasn't disappointed !!! The chap behind the counter said the main problem with the wagon kits is the lack of wheels from manufacturers, gibson and Markits, and Peco were unwilling to sel lthe kits "incomplete".  I explained how disappointing this was, in my case, because I have a stash of kits from which I could rob wheels, also many others in my situation, but more importantly the EM and P4 modellers who wouldn't use the factory supplied wheels anyway. I asked him to feed back to the Peco management that they could probably clear hundreds of kits from their factory / warehouse if only they agreed to sell the kits without wheels.

 

Perhaps other people like me who are prepared to buy the kits without wheels rather than wait months and months, might want to contact Peco similarly ?

 

Incidentally, I didn't see any of the green Bullhead packaging at all on the racks, just red yellow and blue.  

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Although I built my two with the supplied Alan Gibson wheels I'd also be happy to take without

wheel sets. They're quite difficult to ballast with invisible weight for running empty and by substituting

Hornby, or Dapol all metal wheel assemblies you automatically add a few useful extra grams.

 

I suppose their policy is to now supply complete kits, everything included. They probably feel that to

start supplying any without bearings and wheel sets would come under severe criticism as the contents

wouldn't match the instructions !!

 

Can't see why they can't do this 'direct' from their shop though. May be worth an Email.

 

GeoffT.

 

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7 hours ago, Dad-1 said:

I suppose their policy is to now supply complete kits, everything included. They probably feel that to

start supplying any without bearings and wheel sets would come under severe criticism as the contents

wouldn't match the instructions !!

 

Can't see why they can't do this 'direct' from their shop though. May be worth an Email.

 

GeoffT.

 

Exactly Geoff.  I would pay full kit price even without the wheels and bearings from the Peco shop last week, but the guy at the till declined. I guess the shop is probably a couple of hundred feet from the factory at Beer, and it might be that the kits are bagged up just waiting the wheels "sachet". Just feel it is an opportunity lost by Peco, who IMHO don't seem to have a feel for their market. Even if just 30 modellers bought two kits each without wheels that would be 60 kits and getting towards a grand's worth of revenue and some empty factory shelf space too. .   

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To be fair to PECO sorting out minor variations like a no-wheels option, at minimum, doubles admin and requires a 2nd storage bin to keep the variations apart. In the shop that means less room for something else in the range. The suggestion that someone could pop to/from the  factory for one off purchases would disrupt staffing rotas. Wheel less kits is one of those seemingly good ideas initially which ultimately fails when the ‘how do we implement it?’ is assessed.

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1 hour ago, Covkid said:

Exactly Geoff.  I would pay full kit price even without the wheels and bearings from the Peco shop last week, but the guy at the till declined.

 

13 minutes ago, john new said:

To be fair to PECO sorting out minor variations like a no-wheels option, at minimum, doubles admin and requires a 2nd storage bin to keep the variations apart. In the shop that means less room for something else in the range.

 

Whilst I appreciate Covkid was in the area and would have liked to have bought there and then, Eilleen's can manage to swap out wheel-sets for pre-packed Parkside kits. 

 

https://www.eileensemporium.com/index.php?option=com_hikashop&view=product&layout=show&product_id=22612

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7 hours ago, john new said:

To be fair to PECO sorting out minor variations like a no-wheels option, at minimum, doubles admin and requires a 2nd storage bin to keep the variations apart. In the shop that means less room for something else in the range. The suggestion that someone could pop to/from the  factory for one off purchases would disrupt staffing rotas. Wheel less kits is one of those seemingly good ideas initially which ultimately fails when the ‘how do we implement it?’ is assessed.

Sounds like a typical British attitude of why  you can’t do something not can we do something!

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John new is quite right in that they simply don't have the ability to trot off to the works where

there will be bins, or boxes of the component parts. They won't have made up packages less

wheels, simply not a viable commercial option. Bearing in mind they are still chasing their tail

in trying to get all their products back into the market after Covid shut down and moving some

production to PPE for the duration.

Like many things it Could be done, particularly for their own shop, but not a path they would wish

to take.  Particularly when the chosen wheels from Alan Gibson are slightly smaller than the options

I would use (Dapol & Hornby) which need great care in reducing the brake block thickness to prevent

heavy fouling !!

 

Geoff T.

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It sounds all very nice Peco just sending somebody into the factory to pick up some bits to make you the kit you want, but those parts may be part of an order already placed for the complete kits.  So do you really think that somebody should have to wait longer for their order because you think you should be served first?

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3 hours ago, Dad-1 said:

John new is quite right in that they simply don't have the ability to trot off to the works where

there will be bins, or boxes of the component parts. They won't have made up packages less

wheels, simply not a viable commercial option. Bearing in mind they are still chasing their tail

in trying to get all their products back into the market after Covid shut down and moving some

production to PPE for the duration.

Like many things it Could be done, particularly for their own shop, but not a path they would wish

to take.  Particularly when the chosen wheels from Alan Gibson are slightly smaller than the options

I would use (Dapol & Hornby) which need great care in reducing the brake block thickness to prevent

heavy fouling !!

 

Geoff T.

Even at the simple level you have to compromise when selling or the adverts and admin become overly complicated.

 

The SLS have four in print books currently plus some ex-library one offs. I can easily make up any variation of order (and I can squeeze three into our standard mailing packet) but for the postage what we actually pay varies for the obvious weight/size reasons. The answer is the compromise of a flat fee for up two books to UK addresses*. We win a £ smidgeon on single sales and loose a £ smidgeon on mailing two but it still well covers the costs overall. Businesses have to make decisions on what it is cost-effective to do which means some options that could be done get dropped as the cost of doing them outweighs the extra income it is thought they will generate.

 

*The alternative would be to have a pricing structure for each variation of book numbers plus the associated options for 1st or 2nd class post and obviously we could also offer recorded delivery as an option?  Even in this very simple model it becomes overly complex if you let it. 

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14 hours ago, john new said:

To be fair to PECO sorting out minor variations like a no-wheels option, at minimum, doubles admin and requires a 2nd storage bin to keep the variations apart. In the shop that means less room for something else in the range. The suggestion that someone could pop to/from the  factory for one off purchases would disrupt staffing rotas. Wheel less kits is one of those seemingly good ideas initially which ultimately fails when the ‘how do we implement it?’ is assessed.

 

5 hours ago, Dad-1 said:

John new is quite right in that they simply don't have the ability to trot off to the works where

there will be bins, or boxes of the component parts. They won't have made up packages less

wheels, simply not a viable commercial option. Bearing in mind they are still chasing their tail

in trying to get all their products back into the market after Covid shut down and moving some

production to PPE for the duration.

Like many things it Could be done, particularly for their own shop, but not a path they would wish

to take.  Particularly when the chosen wheels from Alan Gibson are slightly smaller than the options

I would use (Dapol & Hornby) which need great care in reducing the brake block thickness to prevent

heavy fouling !!

 

Geoff T.

 

2 hours ago, Bishdurham said:

It sounds all very nice Peco just sending somebody into the factory to pick up some bits to make you the kit you want, but those parts may be part of an order already placed for the complete kits.  So do you really think that somebody should have to wait longer for their order because you think you should be served first?

 

I realise Peco don't have the staff to wander off into the factory willy nilly, but that is totally different to making a decision to market some kits without wheels if the supply chain is likely to be messed up for months.  I have no idea how Peco arrange kit components once they are out of the injection moulding machines - as to whether the six or so sprues are kept in say six sprue containers, or whether they are sorted into some kind of kit bins. The fact presumably is that a heap of sprues are sitting somewhere because Peco cannot get the wheels from Gibson or Markits. Is the preferred solution to just leave them lying around the factory until the times are good again ? At least some of you seem to think so. 

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