RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted December 6, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2018 Could I please ask the O gauge modellers who use cassettes a couple of questions before I commit to buying a load of supplies to make some for myself? a) what size (non-anodised) ali angle do you use? b) what do you use for the cassette base, and do you treat it in any way (varnish, paint, etc)? c) what do you use for the fiddle yard surface, and do you treat it in any way (varnish, paint, etc)? d) how do you connect track power to the cassettes? I've already been doing some research for a while and so have an idea of what I think I should make, so to answer my own questions here are my thoughts so far: a) 31.8 * 31.8 * 3.2mm - this should produce a strong, rigid cassette with an overall width of 96mm. b) 6mm birch ply, bottom edges rounded off slightly. c) 9mm birch ply. Not sure how well ply on ply will slide? d) docking slots made from smaller & thinner section ali angle on one side of each end of each cassette and the docking track, so that cassettes can be easily joined to each other as well as the docking track. The angle slot should ensure vertical and horizontal alignment as well as power transfer. Other features: lifting handles (I was thinking flat ali bar for the sides and wooden dowel for the crossbar); end stops (must be able to be easily inserted and removed); plasticard or ply strip between the "rails" as flange guides. Any suggestions for improvement gratefully received! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Probably better asking in the O gauge section - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/89-7mm-modelling/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted December 7, 2018 Share Posted December 7, 2018 Could I please ask the O gauge modellers who use cassettes a couple of questions before I commit to buying a load of supplies to make some for myself? a) what size (non-anodised) ali angle do you use? b) what do you use for the cassette base, and do you treat it in any way (varnish, paint, etc)? c) what do you use for the fiddle yard surface, and do you treat it in any way (varnish, paint, etc)? d) how do you connect track power to the cassettes? I've already been doing some research for a while and so have an idea of what I think I should make, so to answer my own questions here are my thoughts so far: a) 31.8 * 31.8 * 3.2mm - this should produce a strong, rigid cassette with an overall width of 96mm. b) 6mm birch ply, bottom edges rounded off slightly. c) 9mm birch ply. Not sure how well ply on ply will slide? d) docking slots made from smaller & thinner section ali angle on one side of each end of each cassette and the docking track, so that cassettes can be easily joined to each other as well as the docking track. The angle slot should ensure vertical and horizontal alignment as well as power transfer. Other features: lifting handles (I was thinking flat ali bar for the sides and wooden dowel for the crossbar); end stops (must be able to be easily inserted and removed); plasticard or ply strip between the "rails" as flange guides. Any suggestions for improvement gratefully received! We did a test sample of an O gauge cassette, but the resulting length and weight ( 5 coaches and an engine ) made it very unwieldy , we didn’t progress the idea Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted December 8, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2018 Probably better asking in the O gauge section - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/forum/89-7mm-modelling/ I think most of the ideas are not scale specific, with the exception of the L-angle section. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted December 8, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2018 We did a test sample of an O gauge cassette, but the resulting length and weight ( 5 coaches and an engine ) made it very unwieldy , we didn’t progress the idea Dave I am intending to have multiple cassettes per train, so each loco would have its own, a B-set would have its own, a toad its own and a rake of up to six wagons on another. Maximum length would be about a metre. The goal is not to have to handle the stock any more than absolutely necessary, and I don't have the space for a ladder of sidings using points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Sounds like a traverser with a loco and brake van might be a better solution. 0 gauge locos are not good at surviving 3ft drops on to concrete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeT Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Be very careful, l have two three foot six cassettes on my 'Grundy Street' layout and they are a night mare to lift and turn with a O gauge class 37 and a couple of wagons on ?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 We had cassettes on our "Ultramarine Works" industrial layout and at 2ft long they worked well. When we went out to 3ft6 for our "Lowick/Scratchy Bottom" layout they were to big so we moved to traversers. In hind site a rotary table would have worked better again. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted December 8, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2018 Sounds like a traverser with a loco and brake van might be a better solution. 0 gauge locos are not good at surviving 3ft drops on to concrete. Be very careful, l have two three foot six cassettes on my 'Grundy Street' layout and they are a night mare to lift and turn with a O gauge class 37 and a couple of wagons on ?? We had cassettes on our "Ultramarine Works" industrial layout and at 2ft long they worked well. When we went out to 3ft6 for our "Lowick/Scratchy Bottom" layout they were to big so we moved to traversers. In hind site a rotary table would have worked better again. Marc Oh dear! Look like the consensus is that cassettes in O gauge are not a good idea. Unfortunately I can't see any other solution fitting into my plans with the space I have available. With a traverser I don't see how you avoid handling the stock to swap loco & toad from one end to the other. With a turntable traverser I'd still have to handle the stock to change the make-up of a train, unless I was happy to stick with fixed rakes. I'd considered both these options and others and it seemed to me that cassettes were the most versatile solution. I am hoping to avoid having to lift them too often, and just being able to slide them around on the fiddle board surface. I think I'm just going to have to build a couple and try them out. Thanks for the replies everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdseyecircus Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 For a couple of months I have used a length of guttering which serves me well so far. It's more of a sliding motion keeping the weight of the loco on the baseboard rather than a full pick up. I still need to add some proper packing instead of a Lolly stick but you get the idea. Some slots to cut in the end of the guttering with something across the opening to prevent anything rolling off. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 For a couple of months I have used a length of guttering which serves me well so far. It's more of a sliding motion keeping the weight of the loco on the baseboard rather than a full pick up. I still need to add some proper packing instead of a Lolly stick but you get the idea. Some slots to cut in the end of the guttering with something across the opening to prevent anything rolling off. Paul 20181208_171640_resized.jpg 20181208_171712_resized.jpg 20181208_171734_resized.jpg 20181208_171800_resized.jpg I'm starting a nervous sweat just looking at those photos!! I tried a 4ft cassette in O many years ago & soon gave up on the idea - even sliding them about on the baseboard isn't the easiest of things, not helped by how much an O Scale loco can weigh, which will particularly effect trying to lift a cassette up. So definitely in the "not a good idea for O" camp, here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdseyecircus Posted December 8, 2018 Share Posted December 8, 2018 Like I said it's a sliding motion and not a full pick up of the cassette. I too have had issues handling locos with bits being knocked off. At present this method suits me fine. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted December 8, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2018 Another vote for guttering here. Separate cassettes for locos avoids a long cassette with weight all at one end. As to end caps, they sell them with the guttering, I just removed the rubber gasket. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted December 10, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) The guttering idea looks ok, but I think I'd prefer the ply base & aluminium angle approach to give a more rigid cassette to protect the very expensive stock! To answer one of my earlier questions I found some old scrap aluminium angle to experiment with to find out what size I should use. (This is not the profile I'll be using, and is only being used to gauge to best overall width for each cassette). First decision is that 3mm thick is too much - I'll go with 1.5mm. According to the GOG standards, O-FS wheel flanges should never exceed this. Then, what width? The following photos show the difference between 19mm, 25mm & 30mm. 19mm: 25mm: 30mm: To my mind the first two are both a bit tight for O gauge. The 30mm looks good, and should give sufficient space between the stock and the upright to add handles, etc. This will give an overall cassette width of 92mm. Now to find the best place to order aluminium angle cut to size... Edited February 11 by GWR57xx restore images Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted December 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 18, 2018 Personally, I would have thought the narrower the better to stop stock falling over sideways - with handles on the outside. The point of cassettes is surely that you don't shift stock around by hand, so don't need room for that? Cheers Chris 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted December 18, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2018 Personally, I would have thought the narrower the better to stop stock falling over sideways - with handles on the outside. The point of cassettes is surely that you don't shift stock around by hand, so don't need room for that? Cheers Chris Hi Chris, I get your point but I've ordered the ali angle now so I'll put a trial cassette together when I have all the bits and see what it's like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 When we built the cassettes for East Dean, we used 2x1" aluminium angle, with the wheels running on the edge of the short leg. The angle w 3mm thick, which made it stout enough to pick the cassette up by gripping by the sides. With the hindsight of experience, the only thing that we would have done differently would be to have laid the angles to 31.25mm gauge. The problem we had was that it was easy to get a wagon running with the wheels on one side running on their flanges on the angle with the opposite side wheels derailed inside the edge of the angle. Re-railing could be tricky with low height wagons. Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 On thing we found when operating DC there wasn't a need to insulate the sides as when you cut the power to the loco the current went as well. If you operated DCC you got a tingling sensation as the AC current was still flowing. We had to put plastic tape one the sides to insulate it. Marc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted March 3, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 3, 2019 (edited) A bit of progress to report. I now have the necessary materials so have put together my first test bed cassette. Here are the parts: 9mm ply base, 100mm wide, length to suit the particular loco (in this case probably a Pannier or Class 08). The (non-anodised) aluminium angle is 1.25" * 1.25" * 1/16" (31.8mm * 31.8mm * 1.6mm). This leaves a gap of ~2mm along each side between the angle and the edge of the ply so that two cassettes can be pushed together without the aluminium sides touching. The parts dry-fitted (the ruler in the middle is exactly 32mm wide so makes a perfect track gauge): I have no idea what the best adhesive is for gluing aluminium to ply so this first attempt will be a test of two possible types, PVA (Resin W) and Sticks Like Sh*t: First piece of angle glued down with PVA: Second piece of angle glued down with Sticks Like Sh*t: This will now be left to set for 24 hours... Edited February 11 by GWR57xx restore images 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted March 4, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) End stops for the cassettes will be made from the following bits: The larger piece on the left was my "proof of concept" test, which I was pleased with so decided to stick with. The two smaller pieces are the width and height of the aluminium angle so fit nicely in the ends of the cassette, although it is the tails on the brackets that hold them securely in place. The white stops are 5mm foam board (the stuff used for outdoor signs, not the spongy stuff sold by Hobbycraft etc). This is very light, rigid and strong. The fittings are shelf brackets (the hole needs widening slightly to accept the stud). The studs are belt rivets. Holes marked and drilled: The finished end stops: Edited February 11 by GWR57xx restore images 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted March 4, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) The glue has been left for 24 hours so time for a test to see which (if either) adhesive is up to the job. Test weights: 3lb (1.36kg), 5lb (2.27kg) & 3kg (6.6lb). Cassette suspended by the angle on one side only: The weight will be taken by the adhesive bond between the ply and the clamped piece of angle, so ought to be a fair test. The 3lb & 5lb weights were tried first and neither adhesive failed, so up to the 3kg weight. Sticks Like Sh*t: And PVA: Both sides held without any apparent distress. Edited February 11 by GWR57xx restore images 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted March 4, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) Next up, the holes were drilled to take the end stops: This cassette is still a work in progress, so still needs the ply rubbing down and treated and the aluminium polishing. Here I've just placed some spacers which will be replaced by a strip of ply or card in between the rails to aid locating stock on the rails. A Minerva Iron Mink does gauge testing: The end stops are comfortably above buffer level on the stock: Hope this might be of use to someone in the future... Edited February 11 by GWR57xx restore images 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold GWR57xx Posted March 4, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 4, 2019 (edited) Having wimped out at 3kg in the earlier weight test I then found that a Heljan Class 37 is heavier than this, so here we have 10lb (4.54kg): Both sides still happy with that, so 11.6lb (5.27kg): And finally, 16.6lb (7.54kg): Both adhesives passed this test. I found the PVA to be easier to work with so I think I'll probably stick (sorry) with that. NB: the angle sides are only attached with glue, nothing else. Edited February 11 by GWR57xx restore images Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikey Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 On 08/12/2018 at 18:16, colin penfold said: Another vote for guttering here. Separate cassettes for locos avoids a long cassette with weight all at one end. As to end caps, they sell them with the guttering, I just removed the rubber gasket. Permit me to say that that idea with the contacts is brilliant. I bow down before your awesomness. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I"m liking this idea with the guttering simple and effective. Also not a chance getting a 3A AC shock. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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