Miniature/park railway coach - 1n20 (ish)

[009 micro modeller]

This is a bit of a departure from my normal 009 modelling, although not the first time I’ve worked in larger scales. Some years ago I purchased a Lima Giumbo coach at Alexandra Palace. These used 0 gauge track but were very toylike and more like 1:32 in scale, although more on this later. While I later found out that these are very rare in Britain, mine was in less good condition and was very cheap (otherwise I wouldn’t have made such a random purchase for no particular reason). A few years ago I thought about doing it up as a large scale narrow gauge ‘pleasure railway’ (park, beach, theme park etc.) type thing. The problem with this was the gauge; it would be 2ft gauge in 16mm, for which the body is a bit small. In 10mm it would look OK, but that would make the gauge implausibly wide for a park railway of this type. Also it is still the width of the 0 gauge wagon the original chassis seemed to be based on, a bit narrow for 1:32 narrow gauge. Since I don’t have any other 32mm gauge stuff I decided to rebuild it as a 16.5mm gauge bogie vehicle, representing a railway of around 20 inch gauge. Having sourced a cheap Jouef coach at Peterborough today (£3 so worth it even if I only use the bogies) I’ve started work on it again. The bogies are fitted but I’m really not sure it looks right. I like the roof but wonder if it should be replaced. I think on a park railway the roof would be plausible as it’s a ‘fun’ railway, and obviously I’m not going to leave it bright yellow whatever happens, but possibly it makes the vehicle a bit high. It’s also a little bit too wide (it breaks the ‘3 times the gauge’ rule) but again I have seen some surprisingly wide stock on prototype lines. Usually I would narrow the coach body but with the roof design and the fact that the rest of the body consists of a single moulding this isn’t going to work, and would mean using even less of the model I started out with. Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

The body of the Jouef coach. I may be able to reuse a section of this for something in 009 at some stage.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[ColinK]

It looks fine to me.

[009 micro modeller]

It looks fine to me.

Thanks for this. I think it could be one of those things that doesn’t look quite right until a bit more work is done on it. Still think it’s a bit wide though.

[009 micro modeller]

A bit more progress. I’ve added some plasticard to give the floor some texture (actually meant to represent corrugated iron in 4mm scale). The photo also shows where I previously filled in under the seats using styrene strip. Plastruct C section has been used to make a bit of a frame around the base of the coach and hide some of the less neat work on the bogie mountings. It would have been nice for the bogies themselves to be a bit further in but this would place the pivots in the centre of the end compartment footwells, whereas I’ve been able to use the same holes and screws that previously attached the body to the original 32mm gauge 4 wheel chassis.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

Inspired by the old coaches at Blenheim Park ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blenheim_Park_Railway ) it now has a striped canvas (paper) roof and I’ve started painting the bodywork.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

Another coat of paint and a photo in slightly better light.

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

With some paint on the interior, it’s hopefully starting to come together. I’ve also started to paint the scalloped awning along the top of the windows (actually part of the roof).

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

While waiting for paint to dry on the main coach I’ve made some truss rods from some plastruct girder, suitably altered. These will be glued underneath later.

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

The truss rod assemblies have been stuck on and I’ve painted most of the underside - the unpainted bits won’t be seen anyway. I’ve also finished off the painting on the roof section.

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

Just a couple of pictures of the the inside of the coach - it has now had a black acrylic wash to give a bit of texture and simulate dirt collecting in the cracks in the seats - something that had actually happened and required cleaning before painting! Acrylic was used as the excess can easily be cleaned off; also I would have needed to use thinners for an enamel wash, which might have caused problems for the existing enamel paint I used previously.

 

 

Finally a shot of the coach on its bogies - it isn’t screwed on yet but is resting on them to protect the truss rods without needing to be upside down.

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

Hopefully should have a bit of time to finish this off soon. In case anyone’s interested, this is what an un-modified Lima Giumbo looks like: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/lima-jumbo-giumbo-gauge-wagons-454326585

[009 micro modeller]

I’ve started work on this again now so it should actually be finished within the next few weeks. I should be acquiring another set of figures shortly, which will mean I have a reasonable number to go in the coach and will be able to put the roof on. This in turn makes it possible to do the ends, though I’m now wondering whether it is strictly necessary to wait until the roof is in place before doing the ends after all - it may even work better if the ends are done first as the coach becomes harder to handle once the roof is on. Yesterday a trip to Hobbycraft allowed me to purchase some 1/4 inch basswood strip. This is 8 inches in 1:32 or about 7 1/2 in 10mm scale, a reasonable size for planks of wood; it looks much better than the previous choices of coffee stirrers (too narrow) and large lolly sticks (much too wide) and fortunately wasn’t quite as expensive as I was expecting. In larger scales especially I do like to use real wood for these kinds of things. The photo shows the size difference between the purchased basswood and coffee stirrers.

 

 

I also visited my local model shop and have some similarly-sized L-section Plastruct which will finish the ends off nicely. Today I’ve essentially made a kit of parts to do the ends, which should allow me to assemble everything next weekend. I’ve cut and sanded the planks and placed everything on one end of the coach to test that it all fits and looks OK.

 

 

 

 

The thin red diagonal plastic strip pieces are actually from a set of 4mm scale building details, and there are two layers to allow them to cross over each other and sit on the Plastruct at the sides. The middle is a bit of a mess if you look closely but will eventually be plated over by a thin X-shaped piece of plastic. So far the plastic pieces are only done for one end.

 

The painting and gluing on still needs a bit of thought. I’ll be painting the wood using black and brown enamels mixed with thinners, probably before they are stuck on to prevent the paint and thinners damaging the paint I’ve already done. From previous experience I don’t think the basswood is soft enough to create the same effect with acrylics. I then need to stick the plastic pieces over the top, but they need to be pre-painted so that I don’t have to paint them in-situ and get paint on the wood. I did also wonder whether it would be better to build each end onto a thin piece of plastic card rather than directly onto the end of the coach but I’m not sure I really want to do this as it will effectively increase the thickness of the wood.

 

I’m planning to do some bolt/rivet heads on the vertical and diagonal metalwork at the end - I was just going to use thin, small slices of either round or square section styrene rod but is there a better way? I’m also wondering about the colour - it seems to be a choice between black and the blue used as the main body colour but I did consider picking out some of it, and some of the C-section Plastruct used elsewhere, in the red used to do the scalloped bits on the roof. On the other hand this may look too garish even for the seaside/park railway look I’m going for.

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

A quick bit of work on this this evening has been the painting/staining of the basswood planks.

 

 

This is done with a mixture of enamel paint and white spirit, the same technique I used on the crossing here, to give a dark stain. I used black and brown paint; the idea is to hopefully give the impression of creosoted rather than painted wood, hence the paint thinning, to make sure the grain of the wood is still visible. Unlike the crossing, which was painted in situ, these have been done before being glued to the coach. This has probably made getting paint on the edges of the planks easier, as well as avoiding getting any white spirit on the paint that’s already been done.

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

Unfortunately the lighting is very bad in this photo but at a local group meeting today I planked one end (supergluing directly to the main body shell) and then made some progress on the metalwork (plastic) for one end. This is not yet stuck down as it hasn’t been painted, and the other end hasn’t been started yet. Rivets are made from sliced styrene rod.

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

Not very visually interesting as it's mostly the same as the last post, but I've now completed the wood and "metalwork" for both ends of the coach - 57 rivet/bolt heads on each end.

[009 micro modeller]

I've now painted the coach end pieces. They are likely to need a second coat and some tidying up round the edges so won't be going on the coach yet.

 

 

Another job, assuming the coach will be braked, is to source some suitable brake pipe fittings (whitemetal, plastic or similar). I'm assuming that nothing suitable exists that's made specifically for 1:32 NG but items intended for 7mm NG should do the trick. I know where I'd get such fittings for 009 but will have to have more of a look around for large  scale versions. I haven't decided if these will go on the ends of the body or on the bogies yet - if the latter, I will also need to make  a decision about couplings - to be compatible with other 16.5mm gauge stuff (in either 4mm or 7mm scale) that I either already have or might be able to borrow, it would need to have either tension locks or Kadees, although since this is in a different scale anyway I'm also looking at this: https://www.eurorailhobbies.com/product.asp?mn=4&ca=76&sc=HO&stock=R-40243, due to its similarity to the 009 couplings that I'm used to, and which would be equally appropriate for  the type of line this might run on in future (if I have time for that). Currently the bogies have the Jouef/Playcraft couplings they came with, which I'll probably be replacing, especially given that I don't have a source of similar couplings to fit to other stock.

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

Some supports for footboards have now been added and are being painted. The footboards themselves will be formed from more of the basswood strip. The third photo shows one of the coach ends, albeit upside down (it has to stay upside down now to protect the footboards and truss rods until it goes on its bogies).

 

 

 

 

Figures and brake pipes to sort out next.

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

Footboards are now on. I think it’s starting to come together.

 

I’m still a bit unclear on what the brake pipes should be like. As a passenger vehicle, potentially from a fairly recent era, it probably should have continuous brakes even on a narrow gauge line, but it’s more about whether to attach them to the bogies or the body (the body would be easier and would make more sense but the bogies stick out slightly so perhaps the brake fittings should be on those?). I’m tempted to use 7mm standard gauge brake fittings as the 4mm scale ones I have are too fine, but I’m worried that the 7mm ones might look too large overall (I couldn’t find any for 7mm NG and bear in mind that this is actually an even larger scale, 1:32). Any thoughts?

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

A little bit of light weathering has gone on the coach ends. Just a bit of rust on anything representing metalwork, to tone down the shiny new look it had before without making it look totally knackered. I haven’t really put much on the body sides as these are often made from marine plywood or similar on miniature railway coaches.

 

 

I’ve also painted some figures. They are cheap Chinese ones as getting more Preiser figures would have been too expensive. The repainting has hopefully improved them although I still haven’t got them quite up to the standards of the Preiser ones (Preiser on the right, mine on the left). Unfortunately the men from the set of cheap figures don’t fit into the seats properly, though this could also be due to the weird proportions of the seats themselves.

 

 

I’ve glued the figures in with gel superglue and hopefully they will now stay put - once the roof is on they will be difficult, though not completely impossible, to glue back on if they come loose.

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[009 micro modeller]

The brake pipes have also come. They are intended for 7mm standard gauge but seem about the right size for this project: https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/churchward/churchward-loco/churchward-loco-7mmparts/7-70704

 

 

 

After a bit of careful cutting to make them fit the coach, they’ve had a quick spray with etch primer. I’ll need to turn them over and prime the bits I’ve missed before painting, and then they can be fitted to the coach itself.

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller
Images restored

[Talltim]

Would it be possible to re-instate some of the photos from this thread?

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, Talltim said:

Would it be possible to re-instate some of the photos from this thread?

Yes, when I get a moment. This is actually one of the more straightforward of my threads to reinstate although I think some of the older photos (from 2018) are on my old, old Windows phone so might be harder to access. The coach technically still isn’t finished as it’s waiting for me to find a suitable alternative to Testors Dullcote (seemingly not available any more) to varnish it with.

[009 micro modeller]

8 hours ago, Talltim said:

Would it be possible to re-instate some of the photos from this thread?

Should all be reinstated now. I’ve also got some slightly more recent ones which I hadn’t posted before, with brake pipes and bogies fitted.

 

 

 

 

 

The original couplings fitted to the bogies when they were under the Jouef coach have been re-fitted for now. If and when I get round to actually doing something where the coach needs to run or be coupled I will change these as appropriate. The white paper strip at the base of the roof awning in the final photo is sort of necessary as there’s a slight gap at the base of the striped bit (in my defence, it was difficult to make something that’s basically made out of flat paper/card fit the contours of the roof moulding). The gap seems not to be as noticeable in the old photos from when the roof was trial-fitted before the interior was painted and ends finished, which makes me think that the paint and glue thickness from these might also have something to do with it. Compared to the rest of the build (which I think has turned out reasonably well, especially the planked coach ends) I’m not particularly happy with how this white strip looks so at some stage the plan is to overlay another one on top of it, papering over the slightly different thicknesses of paper and card and going all the way round the base of the roof. The little bit of plastic at the top of the roof (which I think is actually part of the insulated wheel centre from an 009 wagon, or something equally obscure), black in the early photos, is now white to match the roof itself - originally the idea was to have some sort of ornament or ball shape, or possibly a flag on top of it, but I decided this might look slightly over the top, even for the sort of slightly garish seaside/park minimum gauge lines that inspired the rebuilding project. Finally it will need to be varnished - I need to seal the card skin on the roof but without damaging it or making the ink run.

Edited April 12, 2023 by 009 micro modeller

[Talltim]

Ah, thats interesting, I was expecting it to be one of these coaches (I'd missed your link to the worthpoint example)

 

 

(From https://www.altemodellbahnen.de/t10714f153-Lima-Giumbo-Train.html)

 

I had vaguely noticed your style of coach when searching, there was a giraffe car too

An alternative to covering the roof gap might be to hide it with somelettered  sign boards?

Edited April 12, 2023 by Talltim

[009 micro modeller]

9 hours ago, Talltim said:

Ah, thats interesting, I was expecting it to be one of these coaches (I'd missed your link to the worthpoint example)

 

 

(From https://www.altemodellbahnen.de/t10714f153-Lima-Giumbo-Train.html)

 

I had vaguely noticed your style of coach when searching, there was a giraffe car too

An alternative to covering the roof gap might be to hide it with somelettered  sign boards?

Yes, I was aware of the other Giumbo stock types, although I can’t remember how I actually managed to find out what mine was in the first place. There’s a link to the 4-wheel coach/giraffe wagon picture in one of the earlier posts.

 

The bogie coach is interesting and seems very Decauville-influenced, in fact quite reminiscent of the Jouef 009/H0e coaches based on a similar prototype. They are obviously much more accurate to a real prototype and would need less modification for use on a “proper” layout, although again I wonder what the scaling is like.

 

I originally bought my 4-wheel one very cheaply ages ago (at Ally Pally off the MRC second hand stand I think). I didn’t have any large scale or 32mm gauge stuff but was fascinated by the unusual design. Apparently they can be valuable, although mine was not in the best condition anyway. I don’t think I’ll be able to find another one though if I want to convert another to go with this one. When I decided to do something with it I wanted to open out the doorways and get rid of the strange fake gangway connections on the ends, and the rest sort of followed from that. It seemed too large for 7mm scale but too small for 16mm - 1:32 seemed a fairly good match and it’s a scale I like, but the gauge would then be a bit wide for the sort of park railway equipment envisaged, hence the change to 16.5mm gauge on bogies. It’s quite wide for that gauge but seems stable enough.

 

The sign boards are an interesting idea which I might try - I just want to avoid (for now) any lettering that is too specific as I don’t know what exactly I’ll be doing with it next. I also think the base of the roof looks better at the ends than the sides, so this bit might not actually need to be overlaid.