Connoisseurs Johnson 3P 700 Class "The Belpaires"

[Rowsley17D]

I have obtained the above kit from Canada of all places. It will make an excellent model for my Buxton Midland inspired layout "Derwent Spa". The kit is complete save motor, gearbox painting etc. Has anybody built one and can let me know what motor and gear box to get hold of as things have no doubt moved on since the kit was produced? Any pitfalls I should look out for? This will be a slow burner as I will only work on the kit when at our business address as when at our own home the layout will take priority.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Rowsley17D

[muswellmetro1]

I have obtained the above kit from Canada of all places. It will make an excellent model for my Buxton Midland inspired layout "Derwent Spa". The kit is complete save motor, gearbox painting etc. Has anybody built one and can let me know what motor and gear box to get hold of as things have no doubt moved on since the kit was produced? Any pitfalls I should look out for? This will be a slow burner as I will only work on the kit when at our business address as when at our own home the layout will take priority.

is yours 4mm scale or 7mm scale, i built a george norton 7mm kit   but need to regear it and re-engine (also repaint as it was in midland livery and i now model 1950s)

[Rowsley17D]

 

Mine is 4mm scale.

 

Santa paid and early visit yesterday so he had more time for all the kiddiewinks' deliveries on Monday night. The kit cost a sight more than what I assume was the original price £47.60.

 

 

A shot of the tender etch which I shall build first to get the hang of how this kit goes together. Over the years the boiler has suffered a little but will hopefully roll out.

 

 

A wheel set for £9.49! Those were the days.

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Rowsley17D

[Rowsley17D]

Managed a couple of hours on the Deeley tender. The chassis is just two side frames and four spacers. Next one was supposed to put on the brake rigging but I decided to do that once the wheels are in place so I can line them up properly. A start was made on the tender footplate. I use 188 deg. solder and liquid flux.

 

 

[Rowsley17D]

A bit more time was spent on the tender tank today and by teatime this is how far I had got. The kit goes together very well with little in the way of fettling to make things fit although next time I would solder the tender sides and ends to the footplate before putting the valances in place.

 

 

 

[Rowsley17D]

Back to the day job and modelling in the evenings of the early part of the week. A bit more has been done to the tender and it's nearing completion. I have managed to loose a buffer spring though, wonder who has spares?

 

 

 

 

Buffer housings and vac pipe added after these were taken. More next week as we are off to our own home for a couple of days and I will be working on the layout.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Rowsley17D

[Rowsley17D]

The tender is just about finished. Lamp irons are needed as well as the prongs on the front bulkhead for the fire irons. The brakes turned out to be too much of a nightmare and was like knitting with fog. I have some plastic brake-shoes somewhere so these might well be employed.

 

 

 

 

Next time put hand rails in at an early stage as well as the captive nuts on top of the front and rear spacers. I used self-tapping screws instead.

 

Horn blocks could be used for a sprung chassis but I cut off the locating shoulders of the axle boxes and fitted top-hat bearings for pinpoint axles. All six wheels are in contact with the rails.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Rowsley17D

[Rowsley17D]

A start has been made on the chassis. I am making it ridged which needes plates to be soldered to the inside of the fames behind the cut-outs for hornblocks. This meant I couldn't use my chassis jig as it held the frames too far apart. I used the spare EM axles to make sure things were lined up as well as possible. Anyway, after a few hours this is as far as I had got. I tried using the con rods from the bits box from an old 2P but there was too much slop which caused binding. This motor/gearbox combination may not be used, but at least it works.

 

One thing with the chassis is that it has pop marks for sprung pickups but for the ones I use they are too close to the edge of the frame, so I marked where the wheels rims came to and drilled new holes. Some were near the pop marks other s were on the other side of the wheel altogether. In the second photo you can see just how close to the edge of the frame the pop mark is, the new hole is above it.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Rowsley17D

[Rowsley17D]

Work on the loco continues at a pace. The footplate was straightforward enough. The engine I am making was a Derby-based engine No 748. There are two excellent pictures of her in Essery & Jenkinson's LMS Locomotives Vol 4. This engine had shallow Johnson valences and front frames and high cab sides. The kit allows other options.

 

I hate curving flat pieces of metal which I had to do for the firebox and cab. I tackled the firebox by folding around the former at one end, I could have done with two, and tack soldered, folding as I went. Then I undid the lot and did the same to the other end and so had a roughly shaped firebox. I soldered it to the cab-plate first, then to the former at the boiler end. The cab was curved around the handle of a small file. I soldered one side to the footplate first and worked around to the other side. I ended up with something that is beginning to resemble a loco. One thing for 00 gauge, the back-head or rather the brass bit of the cab the back-head will go on to needs to the made thinner, so the tin snips came out, so that the rear drivers would fit between. Those working in EM and P4 should have no problems.

 

 

 

That tender rear handrail looks a bit wonky.

Edited January 28, 2019 by Rowsley17D

[Rowsley17D]

I had to remove the cab, firebox, front frames, and splasher tops from the footplate as the boiler would not sit right. It was too far back and not lining up with the smokebox saddle supports. This was done on the gas hob but don't let SWMBO know. All was cleaned up and the boiler was attached to the firebox before fitting to the footplate. The cab-firebox-boiler unit was then soldered back on the footplate. The cab sits a good 4mm in front of the rear of the footplate rather than 3.5mm given in the instructions. What a difference that 0.5mm makes. The front frames were also too far forward in relation to the smokebox wrapper so these will need to be repositioned too. This is as far as I got last night with the splasher tops and front frames still to be put back. The chimney and dome are just in place with Blutac.

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Rowsley17D
Correct sp mistakes

[Nig H]

On 03/02/2019 at 15:58, Rowsley17D said:

I had to remove the cab, firebox, front frames, and splasher tops from the footplate as the boiler would not sit right. It was too far back and not lining up with the smokebox saddle supports. This was done on the gas hob but don't let SWMBO know. All was cleaned up and the boiler was attached to the firebox before fitting to the footplate. The cab-firebox-boiler unit was then soldered back on the footplate. The cab sits a good 4mm in front of the rear of the footplate rather than 3.5mm given in the instructions. What a difference that 0.5mm makes. The front frames were also too far forward in relation to the smokebox rapper so these will need to be repositioned too. This is as far as I got last night with the splasher tops and front frames still to be put back. The chimney and dome are just in place with Blutac.

 

 

I had similar problems with the front frames on this 2mm finescale version as you can see in the pic below. This was only the second loco kit I had made so I just followed the instructions without question. I do remember at the time wondering why the front frames didn't line up with the smokebox wrapper. You can also see that I struggled with the cab roof just above the cutout. I still do!

 

 

 

 

 

Nig H

Edited February 9, 2019 by Nig H
Additional comment

[Rowsley17D]

My sympathies are with you Nig. I hate folding curved shapes. Some kits have half etch lines to show where the curved folds should be which certainly help. The instructions don't always tell you when to do certain things like soldering the retaining nuts in place before you cover the hole with a floor. They are certainly not kits for the beginner.

[Rowsley17D]

Time this week was spent on adding some of the finer details like hand rails and the ejector piping. Here is 748 with one of the photos I am using to help build her. Sorry about the poor light.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Rowsley17D

[Rowsley17D]

A bit more done to 748 hand rails to the cab and the front of the rear splashers. The holes for the washout plugs have been drilled - not very straight. The front one has had its plug fitted.

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by Rowsley17D

[Rowsley17D]

A long time since I did anything with the 3P but I brought it with me in lockdown. Some bits and bobs added to the smokebox door and I got the coupling rods fettled so they don't bind. I have yet to connect it to its motor to make sure all is well.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Rowsley17D
grammar

[Rowsley17D]

The motor was connected and all was not well and the coupling rods were binding slightly in one place. On checking with the axle spacing, the crank pin holes in the rods were about 0.5mm out being too far apart. The holes were all filled with my highest melting point solder and exact size holes 0.5mm were drilled for the front wheel crank pins. New holes were drilled for the rear set and opened out little by little until all ran free with the motor connected. At this point I turned the motor and gearbox round so they fit into the boiler barrel. This meant I could put lead sheet into the firebox area so most weight is over the driving wheels. The engine comes in at about the weight of a Bachmann Jinty at 183 g. Various bits and bobs were added and a coat or two of etched primer were applied with the following result. This has highlighted where filler is needed as well as the lack of lamp irons on the back of the tender! The tender look strange as it's not on its proper chassis as I didn't want to add its wheels until it's been painted black so it's on an old 2P's tender chassis whose wheel base is shorter than the 3P one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Retro_man]

Looks great Jonathan!

 

Steve C. (retired)

ex. Model Railway Imports, Canada

[Rowsley17D]

Thanks Steve. It's gone together rather well and better than I was anticipating. The only real faff were the tender brakes which I still have to do something about. For the engine I used plastic ones that came with a 4P kit that I will never get round to making given how good I think the Bachmann's ones are. I don't know if anybody does plastic brakes for tenders?

[Rowsley17D]

With it being an ideal day to spray paint dry, warm and calm, the black Halfords' paint can came out and after a couple or three of light coats we have this:

 

 

 

Still with the wrong tender chassis.

Edited May 25, 2020 by Rowsley17D

[Blandford1969]

This looks great

[MarkC]

Very nice indeed. Somewhere at home I have an old GEM Belpaire, sitting on a Triang-Hornby chassis with its original steamroller wheels. It's a poor model now, compared with yours, but 35-40 years ago it was quite an advanced beast! How times change...

 

Mark

[Rowsley17D]

The Belpaire now has the beginnings of an identity and it's married with the right tender underframe. 748 was a Derby engine at some point in its career and I have it photographed at Millers Dale in the early 30s and outside an unnamed shed with a "1" shed plate. The buffer plank needs a tidy up

 

 

A bit of a cruel close-up.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Rowsley17D
remove blurred photo

[Rowsley17D]

Bit more done to the livery. The gold suits black engines, I think. I've little red lining in my HMRS stock so I may see what else is available.

 

 

 

[Rowsley17D]

The Modelmaster red lining arrived and I've done one side to see how it looks. There's no lining on the upper part of the cab as there's no a curved piece to fit the cab cut-out. I wish the Halfords black was glossier as the backing shows. I'll go over the lining with satin varnish to see if I can reduce the shine.

 

 

 

[Rowsley17D]

The righthand side has been lined now and I think we are just about there with this build. There's just a Dinghams' hook and latch to make for the tender then it will be to source a suitable sound decoder - a 3F or a Jinty should do.