CLAPHAM ACCIDENT 30 YEARS AGO TODAY

[Simon Lee]

Instead of all the bickering about Hattons/Bachmann/DJM/Bargain Hunters, perhaps it would be better to remember those who lost their lives and those affected on the day and days afterwards.

 

Somethings are more important than model trains.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46509473

[Wickham Green]

Instead of all the bickering about Hattons/Bachmann/DJM/Bargain Hunters, perhaps it would be better to remember those who lost their lives and those affected on the day and days afterwards.

 

Somethings are more important than model trains.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46509473

Indeed ! ................. I remember it well - on my way to work ( in Teddington at the time ) and the train stopped opposite New Covent Garden ( previously known as Nine Elms ) for ages ..... eventually reversed into Vauxhall and I got to work via Twickenham somewhat late - but it could have been a lot worse !

[Legend]

Very true. Thanks for reminder of this horrific crash .  It was a very bad year. Lockerbie is also 30 years ago on 21st Dec  and I think  Kegworth , the one where the wrong engine was shut down, was very early in the new year , so also coming up for the 30 year anniversary .  I was aware at the time that we seemed to be going through a very bad period . Of course if you are not directly involved you can have no notion about how peoples lives were affected and we should remember all those .It will live with them forever.   This is a model railway forum, however, and while being respectful it doesn't preclude  discussions on things that are far from important , by comparison.

['CHARD]

Three months almost to the day, after I had started working in the industry, and the sense of tragedy brought home to me how I had joined a 'family.' 

[Oldddudders]

I spent some of the day in orange vest wandering round the concourse at Waterloo, trying to advise people on their best alternative for travel. And bumping into Chris Green’s PA, who was doing the same job, pointing out to her that the Christmas Party would need to be cancelled. As far as I am aware, the only party that did take place was that of the S&T function, which seemed bizarre in the extreme, given the cause of the accident.....

 

Three days later Traveller’s Fare was sold, and Deb became a Partner. Not that she made any money from it.

[Damo666]

Instead of all the bickering about Hattons/Bachmann/DJM/Bargain Hunters, perhaps it would be better to remember those who lost their lives and those affected on the day and days afterwards.

 

Somethings are more important than model trains.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46509473

I was working in London at the time and remember the morning clearly. Good mate of mine who sat opposite, Nigel, would come in from Reading each morning on the train. He caught an earlier train than normal that morning, otherwise he'd have been on that train. It shook him to think what might have been had he got his normal train.

[Southernman46]

I was on the 08:07 Vic - Littlehampton passing through Clapham Cutting on the Sussex side about 08:10 and saw the first train stopped @ WF47 signal with the driver in the cess on the SPT and thinking to myself "That's not right" - the first collision would have occurred pretty much as my train swung away towards Croydon out of sight. Heard about the crash on arrival at Southern House and was turned straight around back to site to assist with technical advice about the HV cables on the cutting wall ............ and reflecting part of Post#3 above .......... I have always considered my Railway career to be in two parts ............. either before or after this day.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Southernman46

[Gwiwer]

As some of us will be aware I currently work at Clapham Junction.

 

The mood this morning was sombre about the place.   At 08.13 thirty years ago one of Britain's worst rail disasters took just seconds to unfold right outside the station.

 

At 08.13 this morning representatives of SWR drivers and their union ASLEF, along with Network Rail, attended a service at the memorial.  There was no commemoration at 08.13 on the station which was, as usual, at its busiest with morning peak traffic at that time; there is a time and place for a minute's silence and with the greatest of respect this was not it.  At 11.00 a service was held at the memorial for station staff though not all could be released from duty.

 

A good friend was working at Emmanuel School which is beside the line at the accident scene.  She watched the disaster unfold before her eyes.  As a consequence of suffering traumatic stress and depression ever since she was never able to work again.   

 

A very large number of people had their lives changed for ever just before Christmas.  Those bereaved, those injured and their families, the countless emergency service responders and rail staff of all ranks.  And not forgetting the Emmanuel School boys who, at a young age, witnessed the awful scenes yet still played a part by supporting the emergency services throughout the recovery.  Others who are sometimes forgotten include the huge number who responded to the emergency calls for blood donations many of which were taken at St. George's Hospital, Tooting with staff there coping with lengthy queues and makeshift conditions.  

 

And let us not forget the lessons the industry learned from this incident not least because last year's side-swipe at Waterloo has raised stark similarities in cause and a comment on the record that the lessons from Clapham are being forgotten.

 

This is the Thames News report.  It contains distressing scenes.

 

 

[royaloak]

Also remember the train which did the colliding was supposed to be a (at the time) brand new 442 but because the unit had run over a shopping trolley a day or two before it was CIG/VEP REP/TC stock instead, imagine the devastation if a new, stronger 442 had collided with the older weaker CIG/VEP stock and ride-over the chassis cutting through the weak bodyshell in the process, although the collision that did occur was bad enough, as in most of these incidents, it could have been worse.

 

I did have a moments contemplation this morning at the loss of life and also my fears that we are due another major incident as lessons are forgotten, 'new blood' comes into the industry and doesnt know about these incidents as they try to re-invent the wheel.-

Edited December 12, 2018 by royaloak

[Wickham Green]

Also remember the train which did the colliding was supposed to be a (at the time) brand new 442 but because the unit had run over a shopping trolley a day or two before it was CIG/VEP REP/TC stock instead, imagine the devastation if a new, stronger 442 had collided with the older weaker CIG/VEP stock and ride-over the chassis cutting through the weak bodyshell in the process, although the collision that did occur was bad enough, as in most of these incidents, it could have been worse.

 

I did have a moments contemplation this morning at the loss of life and also my fears that we are due another major incident as lessons are forgotten, 'new blood' comes into the industry and doesnt know about these incidents as they try to re-invent the wheel.-

Everything's relative ...... the crash-worthiness of Mk1 stock was head and shoulders above its predecessors ( 4COR perhaps ) - and how would that 442 stand up against, say, a Desiro ? ( I'd rather not know, actually )

[caradoc]

I was working at Mossend TOPS office at the time and although we had a TV it would never normally have been on during the day. However we watched the news coverage and although the accident was hundreds of miles away as rail workers we too were deeply saddened and affected, the mood in the office was very subdued.

[uax6]

I was at school at the time, but can remember the shock of it occurring.

 

I have read the Hidden report on the accident and it is truly interesting read, and I personally would make it compulsory for all new staff to read it.

 

I keep up to date with the RAIB investigations through my own interest, and when I mentioned this to my current boss he was very impressed, as I don't think he has even read one...

 

I have also hosted a senior manager in the box today, and he was apart of the clear up team, and he vividly remembers how horrible the scene was.

 

But the railway is a very different place today and one hopes that we won't see scenes like this again, but that depends on every member of railway staff thinking safety first.

 

Andy G

[The Dorset Wanderer]

I knew the driver who passed an incorrect light- he had a supervisor on board- driving the service before the incident -it affected him massively. Was also a recipient of a concrete block through the cab roof of a 4REP so I have the utmost respect for those involved on that fateful day.

[Bucoops]

I was 11 at the time and remember the news reports. It made me realise that whilst I had a big interest in the big metal things that ran on rails, there was a human side to it tat could have tragic consequences.

[robertcwp]

I'm unlikely to forget that day. I was living with my dad, my mother having passed away earlier in the year. I left the house just before 8.00 am to go to work and had to renew my season ticket at Worcester Park station. I caught a train at around 8.15, so just after the accident had happened. The train ground to a halt one signal south of Raynes Park then moved forward one signal at a time for about 3/4 hour until reaching Wimbledon, where all trains were terminating. It was very clear that something was badly wrong when we arrived at Raynes Park and there was a train standing on the up fast. All we were told was that there was an obstruction on the line and there would be long delays. At Wimbledon, I recall senior BR staff with gold-braided caps directing people to other services, which was another bad sign. I took the District Line and arrived at work - at a client - around 10.30. The first I heard about a crash was when the receptionist mentioned it. No mobile phone then. I tried calling my dad but there was no reply. He answered the second time a few minutes later. He had been out, having gone round to the station to try to find out which train was involved. He had heard the news from his sister who phoned at 8.40 and had been in total panic for two hours. The journey home was via Underground to Morden then bus. 

 

This was the 4 Rep involved, although it had been renumbered 2003 and was running the opposite way round at the time of the accident: 

4-REP_3003_Wimbledon by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

What also stands out about that day is how well the senior BR management handled it. I think it was Gordon Pettitt who was in the front line.

 

It was indeed a bad time as the King's Cross fire had been only one year before. I didn't miss that one by much either, having used the escalator where the fire began at lunchtime on the day of the fire. Away from railways, the Hillsborough disaster was the following year.

Edited December 12, 2018 by robertcwp

[Mike Storey]

Indeed. I had only recently left the SR, having moved to Kings Cross, where we were still getting over the fire below. So I did not get involved directly over Clapham, but it hit us all the same. We had previously had a seriously profound faith in the signalling systems, that so many years of experience and a fail-safe ethos, had produced a network where this sort of thing could not happen again. And yet it did. I had worked at Cannon Street for three years, but just missed the buffer stops collision there (but I was there when the bomb went off), but these incidents, whilst tragic, did not have the same shock.

 

My personal "Clapham" did not happen until Hatfield, and then Heck, when I knew staff and some passengers involved, and then the engineers in the witch hunt afterwards.

.

[Foulounoux]

My brother at the time commuted to Fleet

He got off the fateful Poole train at Basingstoke and by the time he got to work the accident had occurred

Then it hit him that people earlier that morning he had been stood next to were unlike him not going home that night.

 

Certainly changed both of our outlooks on life what the day before we would have considered big problems became irrelevant

We both I think realised how valuable and precious life is

 

 

Colin

[SED Freightman]

I was working in the Waterloo General Offices at the time and remember news of the crash filtering through to our office which was just along the corridor from the Control.  Once we knew which trains were involved the reason for one of our colleagues non arrival from Fleet slowly became clear.  After what seemed like a very long while (around lunchtime) he eventually arrived, fortunately with no serious physical injuries but clearly still suffering from shock, I believe some people travelling in the same carriage were among the fatalities.  Sadly, but quite understandably, I don't think our colleague ever fully recovered from the trauma of that morning.

[Wickham Green]

Here we go again ......... "signalling problems" had been flagged on the line "for some time".: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46549288

[Joseph_Pestell]

A close friend of mine left railway employment shortly after Clapham. He was an S&T engineer on the project although not on duty that particular weekend.

 

He had high regard for the chap that had made the error and realised that it could equally well have been him.

[The Stationmaster]

Apart from the immediate tragedy the real effect of Clapham only began to become clear in the days that followed (especially in S&T Depts throughout BR, not just on the SR, as various people learned that what they thought went on was more often than not rather different from what actually went on.

 

Things really came home of course with the Hidden Report and various of its recommendations, particularly No.18, which had a profound impact through much of the industry but which reportedly increasingly seems to be either overlooked, or is not known, or is blatantly ignored, in various parts of the industry today.   

[Gwiwer]

"Is not known" would definitely ring true given the report on the Waterloo crash last year.  

 

A comment was specifically included to the effect that the lessons of Clapham were being forgotten as new generations of workforce and a new structure take responsibility for the infrastructure.  How many signal technicians who were employed as such 30 years ago are still so employed for example?

 

The point being that these lessons should be a part of basic training and not overlook in a report gathering dust on a shelf somewhere.  Who has oversight and control to ensure this happens?  Not the RAIB as they do not apportion blame and their recommendations do not necessarily become enshrined in the rule book.

[Southernman46]

35 years ago today ...................................... 😌

[brushman47544]

I was on an up Victoria suburban service approaching Clapham Jct shortly after the accident. There was another train on the up fast held at the signal outside Clapham Jct, so I consider myself lucky that I could not see what had happened, just people walking up the track. I’ve often wondered how I would have been affected had I seen the aftermath. A very sad day.

[Robert Shrives]

An earlier post noted about new entrants not knowing about the crash and resulting changes. It is true and talking about "Hidden" they do think of out of sight.  Corrective action by us oldies does help open a few minds.  Like using the Q word in control having books about disasters open does invite gremlin intervention so  sometimes I have lent some of Stanley Hall`s tomes for use in out of office hours environments. 

I have the full report of the Clapham inqury and it is well thumbed by others and recently inspired one member of staff to enrole on the safe working of trains course.   So good has come for many after the culture change and better controls, but like many reading this fear the wheel turns and a case of when not if we have to deal with another multiple train collision.   

stay safe 

Robert