Hornby 2019 Speculation

[trevor7598]

Another range of Southern coaches/EMU'S wouldn't go amiss.

Hornby have been spoiling SR fans in recent times, and long may they continue to do so.

[owentherail]

50019 in laira blue please, or even a referb 50 still in blue 001 or 006 ... Dutch 31 and 56

[JSpencer]

Blue and grey Golden Arrow Pullman cars to go with their and DJ Models, blue Class 71 electro diesel

They would have to be U type which they don,t do - yet.

[TravisM]

They would have to be U type which they don,t do - yet.

It would be nice as I’d love to recreate the Belmont Orient Express

[mdvle]

On the modern image front no one seems to have spotted the obvious (unless I have failed to spot the post) that this year sees the introduction to the UK of the Stadler 'Flirt' trains. Given the response to the GWR Hitachi trains the 'Flirts' would be a good project. Hornby would not have to offer a full 12-car inter-city but could release the 3 or 4 car 'bi-mode' units since all 3 passenger cars and the power car in the 3-car version are included in the 4-car so simplifying the tooling options.

 

Anyone considering them (or for that matter any other new stock) are really better off waiting a short while in case any visible modifications are required due to issues discovered while testing.

 

Elsewhere on this site is a discussion that the real thing is having various clearance issues leading to restrictions on use that, if correct, may need some alterations to fix some / all of the issues - it being dependent on who ultimately gets the blame, and hence the responsibility for fixing said issues if they get fixed.

 

One apparent issue is with the nose of the unit, and it would be unfortunate for someone to tool up a model only to find out the nose on the real thing gets changed, resulting in either an expensive tooling change for the model or an inaccurate model...

[NHY 581]

How about a 14xx/58xx.

 

Hattons/DJM have produced a very well detailed model but the reliability is questionable.

 

 

Long standing in the Hornby range. The opportunity is there for the taking.

 

 

 

Rob.

[mckinneyc]

Judging that Hornby's ad for their 2019 product announcement features a drawing of a Gresley A1 I'd say we're to get a new A1/A3.

 

Best place to hide something is in plain sight.

 

Also if they are I'll be ordering a few!

Edited December 26, 2018 by mckinneyc

[Cor-onGRT4]

A DB red 60 would do me nicely, would like to see the full fat powercars in FGW Barbie or Fag Packet as well.

Your wish might be Hornby's command, watch the 7th

[Lu4472ke]

As for loco's, I'm hoping for something that originated from the GER, so a J69, E4 or something else from the GER. 

 

As for wagons, an LNER bogie brick wagon as I've just built a parkside kit and it'll be just my luck 

 

As for coaches, hopefully something that originated from the GER 

 

As for diesels I don't really know, but I've heard that the 47 needs a retool, so I'll go with that. 

[GWR8700]

Every year Hornby release a lot of steam loco’s and a lot of people presently buy then but steam disappeared from our railways over 50 years ago now and those buying these models generally are now 60 plus.

I often see this point made by D&E modellers but I've never seen any statistics which actually back this up.  Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

 

If steam was falling in popularity I think some of the manufacturers would have reacted to this already rather than continuing to invest in steam.

Edited December 27, 2018 by GWR8700

[mdvle]

Every year Hornby release a lot of steam loco’s and a lot of people presently buy then but steam disappeared from our railways over 50 years ago now and those buying these models generally are now 60 plus.

A lot of the new generation of modellers and those under the age of 60 grew up with Diesel, Electric, DMU and EMU trains. As the years go on those wanting to buy steam will drop in numbers.

 

Both false statements.

 

Steam has quite a following amongst those under 50.

 

While there is a trend to model what one experienced in their teen years it isn't as strong as many seem to think, for at least half the market other factors tend to influence what they choose to model.

[Dunsignalling]

 

My biggest hope is that Hornby release a completely updated version of Railmaster that is designed for the Latest PC’s on the market Windows 10. Railmaster at present is built on Windows XP architecture which is causing lots of issues for a lot of people. The last time I saw software using ini files other than Railmaster was about 10 years ago and I work in the IT industry.

Every year Hornby release a lot of steam loco’s and a lot of people presently buy then but steam disappeared from our railways over 50 years ago now and those buying these models generally are now 60 plus.

A lot of the new generation of modellers and those under the age of 60 grew up with Diesel, Electric, DMU and EMU trains. As the years go on those wanting to buy steam will drop in numbers.

At present there is a lack of Hornby models in the Diesel and Electric ranges with modern motors powering both front and rear bogies. For example Hornby’s Class 47 options are a joke for a Diesel that was very common on British railways.

TTS has now been out for 2 years but no sign of anymore train types being added.

 

It's which segment of the market they consider will generate the best return on investment that determines Hornby's product selection, nothing more nor less. They cater for the 60+ market because, at present, we are the people with the available time and money to pursue hobbies of any sort. Most younger people I know have far more important and pressing things to do with both.

 

Thus, whilst your prediction may well prove correct fifteen or twenty years from now, there's little sign of it happening yet. By then, of course, half the potential market won't have seen a Class 47 in general traffic anyway.... 

 

What people grew up with doesn't always determine what they want to model. Quite often it's "can I get a layout with some operating interest in the space I have available?" In the length required to accommodate (for instance) a Class 66 and two modern bogie wagons, with very limited operating potential, one can fit something like a Jinty or Pannier tank (or a small diesel) plus seven steam-era 4-wheel wagons and shunt away merrily.

 

Another point is that, unless they commute by train, many younger people have very limited experience of the national rail network. Most of their experience of railways comes from visits to heritage lines. For them, a preserved steam loco is just as much "modern image" as something like a Stadler 'Flirt'. Maybe this is one reason why, if anything, the market seems to be pushing towards earlier times rather than later, i.e. pre-grouping and fairly elderly industrial prototypes.

 

Also, IMHO, many D&E enthusiasts don't help their own cause by slagging off products that look perfectly OK until you run a micrometer over them, or because Hornby (etc.) have produced what might be, for them, the "wrong" variant as running in the "wrong" decade. There were over 500 Class 47s and a hefty proportion of them remained in traffic for four decades. Even half way through that timescale, it's unlikely that there were any two exactly the same in existence so, for a manufacturer to model a particular sub-type as running in 1984 rather than 1994 is not valid cause for criticism.

 

Me, I've never bothered to replace my Heljan "tubby duffs" with the less dimensionally-challenged Bachmann variety, purely because; viewed from three feet away at the head of moving trains, I can't tell the difference.

 

It is sometimes said that certain locos are/were so numerous, universal or iconic that any manufacturer aspiring to serve the mass market should have one in their range. However, if that is really the case, why are Hornby the only maker of an OO Black Five and why does nobody but Bachmann make a "serious" Pannier tank?

 

Hornby's 47 is simply aimed at a different market. If you want one with a central can motor and flywheels, look elsewhere.

 

John

Edited December 27, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Bob Reid]

Hornby are of course going to follow up the J36 with an equally excellent 439 Class and a pair of "Accurate" Caledonian 57 footer's (Diagram's 111a & 124) to haul behind both of them.... Didn't anyone know?

[Foden]

It could be argued could it not that interest in modelling (and collecting) of pre-grouping railways is on the increase, rather than decrease.

Considering that the youngest people to be able to feasibly remember such times from their childhood would be centenarians, it goes some way to debunk the theory that people model what they remember from their childhood.

People model what appeals to them personally, steam still has a romance with the younger generation, go to any heritage railway and you’ll see this not only in the visitors, but in the volunteers also.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Foden

[Pete the Elaner]

I didn’t say the under 50’s were not interested in steam and it was just a age of person based on when steam disappeared from British railways. I like Diesels more because i’m now 44 but grew up with Class 33’s, 50’s, etc when I was a boy. Just it’s quite evident when you go to exhibitions it’s the over 60’s generally modelling with steam and those under 60 modelling in Diesels. Yes most layouts in exhibitions are steam but for how many more years?

Welcome to the forum.

Words frequently get twisted on here & it is very common for someone to quote 1 line of a statement & disagree with it.

If you can cope with that, there is a lot of useful knowledge available.

Railcom uses .ini files??? They are a bit old but at least they allow you to configure some things using text files.

 

Regarding the variety of modern motive power, there are manufacturers other than Hornby:

Between them, Bachmann, Dapol, Heljan & Hornby produce most diesels. You mention the 47: This has been produced relatively recently by Heljan, Bachmann & ViTrains. Relative that is compared to Hornby's Railroad which is an ex-Lima tooling from the 1980s. I am sure this is why Hornby have not produced a modern, high quality class 47.

 

I am only 2 years older than you & model steam as well as BR sector period, so I get to see things from both sides. There are larger gaps in the steam market because it lasted so much longer.

There are a lot more diesel & electric layouts than there used to be & I agree with you that this trend will continue but we will not see steam layouts disappear completely.

 

As for TTS: There have been a lot of negative comments on here about it. I really think this is harsh because it is a budget set of decoders at a budget price. It fill a gap in the market very nicely, offering sound to many more modellers that who would otherwise afford it.

Manufacturers base their products on expected sales, not a forum which represents a minority of their customers. Only Hornby will know what their plans are for TTS in the near future.

 

I actually think Hornby are serving our market quite well.

I will be interested to see what they plan to release.

[John M Upton]

A thought.  Is there any mileage in Hornby acquiring the Vi-trains 37 and 47 tooling and reintroducing them?  I don't know what happened to Vi-trains UK outline production and or plans other than they vanished into thin air.

[Invicta]

I didn’t say the under 50’s were not interested in steam and it was just a age of person based on when steam disappeared from British railways. I like Diesels more because i’m now 44 but grew up with Class 33’s, 50’s, etc when I was a boy. Just it’s quite evident when you go to exhibitions it’s the over 60’s generally modelling with steam and those under 60 modelling in Diesels. Yes most layouts in exhibitions are steam but for how many more years?

 

Are exhibitors at shows an accurate cross-section of the market though? I could equally say that of the young modellers I knew personally as junior members of my former club, who would all be in their early/mid-20s now, last time I heard of them, all of them were predominantly modelling steam- I think there's a lot in Dunsignalling's point about younger people having as much experience of railways from heritage lines as the national network. One of that small group of young modellers I mentioned (who IIRC works for NR now) has been an active heritage line volunteer since his teens- needless to say, last I heard, he was modelling GWR steam.

 

What people grew up with doesn't always determine what they want to model. Quite often it's "can I get a layout with some operating interest in the space I have available?" In the length required to accommodate (for instance) a Class 66 and two modern bogie wagons, with very limited operating potential, one can fit something like a Jinty or Pannier tank (or a small diesel) plus seven steam-era 4-wheel wagons and shunt away merrily.

 

Another point is that, unless they commute by train, many younger people have very limited experience of the national rail network. Most of their experience of railways comes from visits to heritage lines. For them, a preserved steam loco is just as much "modern image" as something like a Stadler 'Flirt'. Maybe this is one reason why, if anything, the market seems to be pushing towards earlier times rather than later, i.e. pre-grouping and fairly elderly industrial prototypes.

 

 

 

The space thing must be an issue- with the current insanity of the property market (I'm speaking as someone in the East Midlands who spent a couple of decades living in the South-East) pricing the young out of home ownership, then if you're looking to build your first layout in a small rented flat or shared house, the need to build something small and portable is likely to be in your mind. I wasn't actively modelling in my early/mid-20s, but if I was, in the shared rented houses I was living in at that age, then a steam-era shunting plank with something like the Hattons Barclay, Hornby Peckett etc and a few wagons would be on my agenda.

 

I think there may be a lot in the theory about exposure to railways from the heritage lines as much as the national network. I'm in my early 50's, and thanks to Dr Beeching grew up in the 70's/80's in an area in which journeys on the 'big railway' were a rare treat, and probably did almost as much holiday-time mileage on heritage lines as I did the national network- the concept of commuting by train only really entered my world when I went away to uni and then moved to the South-East. Needless to say, I've been a mainly steam-era modeller from the start.

 

Hornby 2019 predictions- the Princess is almost a certainty, if not for 2019, then probably 2020, and if the J36 sells, then I'd expect something else Scottish, and another industrial to follow on from the Peckett

Edited December 27, 2018 by Invicta

[KDG]

1951 Festival of Britain Pullmans please....

[Pete the Elaner]

A thought.  Is there any mileage in Hornby acquiring the Vi-trains 37 and 47 tooling and reintroducing them?  I don't know what happened to Vi-trains UK outline production and or plans other than they vanished into thin air.

Why?

They would be competing directly with Bachmann, whose models are current & more accurate.

Bachmann usually produce more liveries too.

I really think Hornby miss a trick here. A while ago, they produced 31110 in dutch. 2 years later, they still produced 31110 in dutch. They probably had around 20-30 others in dutch to choose from (which would also have also been more suitable for multiple purchases in a headcode box version).

Last year they produced 46256 in BR red which sold very quickly. The tooling is also good for 6256 in LMS black, 46256 in BR black or green, 46257 in BR black or green....so instead of producing one of these, they do a re-run of 46257 in red & will probably have unsold stock left over this time around, putting them off from releasing more variations.

[Covkid]

Quite how I will order on January 7th, when I google 20 shops all listing an identical price, I am not sure, especially as when released later in the year, all the prices will still be the same on release date, logically it would seem prudent to reign in the excitement and wait for it to hit the shelves before deciding to rush in, or bet on a discount after a prolonged shelf period. Right now I don’t see an incentive to Pre-order, let’s see.

 

I find it really easy. I just toddle off to my LHS Topp Trains in Stafford and ask Mike or Steve to order for me, They trust me to pay for the stuff I order, and I very much appreciate the service and the good prices they offer me. Works really well and I am a contented customer supporting my LHS. 

[Legend]

Well I’m 56 and I only have the vaguest memory of steam , but I’ve just bought the gorgeous J36 with Maude on order. A great wee Scottish loco . Really contemplating a Blue Coronation Pacific too . As well as the steam connection I have lots of BR blue which could be thought of being my era , but also post privatisation . I don’t think I’m much different from many enthusiasts I know , basically we are collectors that occasionally run trains on our layouts.

 

So while I accept that Hornby have not given the attention to D+E that Bachmann have , they have still given us 08, 31, 50, 71 , 87 and HST . That’s not bad going? Still plenty of mileage in steam though.

[Foden]

Well I’m 56 and I only have the vaguest memory of steam , but I’ve just bought the gorgeous J36 with Maude on order. A great wee Scottish loco . Really contemplating a Blue Coronation Pacific too . As well as the steam connection I have lots of BR blue which could be thought of being my era , but also post privatisation . I don’t think I’m much different from many enthusiasts I know , basically we are collectors that occasionally run trains on our layouts.

 

So while I accept that Hornby have not given the attention to D+E that Bachmann have , they have still given us 08, 31, 50, 71 , 87 and HST . That’s not bad going? Still plenty of mileage in steam though.

You can add 60, 56, 67, and 153 to that list also.

 

In terms of classes released rather than livery runs, Hornby have been very much as attentive to the D&E modeller as Bachmann, arguably more so.

[Pete the Elaner]

So while I accept that Hornby have not given the attention to D+E that Bachmann have , they have still given us 08, 31, 50, 71 , 87 and HST . That’s not bad going? Still plenty of mileage in steam though.

I think that's a pretty good range once you add classes 56, 60 & any others which we've both forgotten.

 

Edit: beaten to it by the previous post 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Pete the Elaner

[Covkid]

Something all the manufactures are missing a trick with for older diesel and steam trains is releasing a dcc ready chassis only that you can fit your old diesel and steam body’s to. Like myself there are probably a lot of people out there that still have there trains from there childhood that would like to get them running better generally and also with dcc and dc.

 

I cannot imagine enough of a market for it to be honest Pete. Anything specifically in mind ? 

Obviously steam wouldn't be so much of an issue with no significant lighting to consider. However, with the modern diesel and electric models there are often lights of various kinds to consider, so buying a new class 47 chassis (for arguments sake) would need the buyer to feed the lighting of the marker lights, tail lights, headlight and cab lights at each end, into the old bodyshells, for which all the lenses would need drilling out. I understand that sales of unnumbered models are not great, so supplying a chassis for a modeller to modify their own body to fit to would be even less popular and certainly not cost effective.

 

Good idea in theory though.      

Edited December 27, 2018 by Covkid

[Dunsignalling]

I didn’t say the under 50’s were not interested in steam and it was just a age of person based on when steam disappeared from British railways. I like Diesels more because i’m now 44 but grew up with Class 33’s, 50’s, etc when I was a boy. Just it’s quite evident when you go to exhibitions it’s the over 60’s generally modelling with steam and those under 60 modelling in Diesels. Yes most layouts in exhibitions are steam but for how many more years?

I'm actually 67 and do both, albeit nowadays straddling the transition era where I can run either or both as the fancy takes.

 

I used to have quite a bit of NSE-era and post-privatisation stuff, models of things I'd worked with when in the job, sentimental value perhaps.

 

However, I just couldn't muster any enthusiasm for running units - they just go, stop and come back. I found I just never ran them, so I traded them in. I still have three fifties, and NSE 33, a rake of NSE Mk2s and a string of CDAs, but they don't see daylight all that often and I've therefore (so far) resisted the allure of a 4TC.

 

Latest major purchases have been 10203 in Southern Region trim (which I'm pretty certain I saw, aged three, from my push-chair) and Beachy Head, which was gone years  before I became a spotter.