Larger locos on a micro-layout?

[Alex TM]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been very impressed by a number of micro-layouts that I have seen both here and elsewhere.  At present, what stops me form having a go at one is that I prefer to run locos that are somewhat bigger than the small four and six wheeled shunters that most seem to us.  My ideal would be to run diesels such as classes 20/25/26/27, and 0-6-0 tender locos.  Has anyone built or seen a layout where this seems to work convincingly?  I don't want to go down the depot layout route.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[009 micro modeller]

If you look on Small Layouts Scrapbook there are various ideas, including some American layout designs intended for bogie switcher/shunter locos which could probably be adapted to a UK scene with main line diesels like those you mention. I’ve seen a few plans based on large terminus stations where you only see the loco and the first coach - the rest of the train would be off scene (station footbridge etc as scenic break) and is in reality not there. The main things that would need to be different on a typical micro would probably be the lengths of sidings and headshunts, to allow for a longer loco.

[ruggedpeak]

My micro layout is designed to allow 2 car dmu operation and loco plus 1 coach/wagon (eg 67+DVT on a training run). All 3 roads are linked so locos can traverse to any road, or shunt stock. The link is below.

[luke the train spotter]

I regularly run class 20s, 25,26 on my micro Distillery Yard (it's here in the micro layout section) if you want to check it out. Definitely possible to use larger locos on a small layout (distillery yard is only 4ft long). When I planned my layout I planned it around the stock seizes to ensure that I could fit in the larger locos. Not tried anything bigger than a 25/26 as the fiddle yard dimensions are pretty tight.

[sb67]

There's a layout called Neptune St Yard http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/97332-neptune-street-yard-2015/ I saw it at a show and it looked fine with a class 25 and a class 31 operating.

Steve.

[bazjones1711]

We can run large loco's on our Crossley scrap layout  including pairs of 20's , class 31,37,47,56,60 the whole length of the layout is just over 4ft long ! three sidings using just a code 75 3 way point also i have built some Sheerness Steel JXA which a very long wagons !

[Russ (mines a pint)]

If it fits on the layout why not there are plenty instances of train locos doing the shunting especially at outer ends of rural lines where no shunter may be available . 

 

[sb67]

I love the last two posts, especially the video of the Warcop branch. This thread has got me thinking about the same question, I've got a few larger loco's and only small shunting layouts and always what sort of layout to run them on. 

There's also this layout which is one of my faves, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/77086-acacia-avenue-br-parcels-and-stabling-sold/page-1

 

Steve.

[37114]

I used to run larger locos a lot on Peafore Yard using the same rationale as Russ outlines above. The loop on the lower level could just accommodate a class 47 but mostly I ran classes 20,25 and 37, as in post 526 in the link below:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82744-peafore-yard-4mm-br-blue-layout-shunting-layout-sold/page-22

Edited December 18, 2018 by 37114

[Stubby47]

Tinner's Forge (3'6") can be run with Bo-Bo locos. Anything bigger looks too big.

It's a simple inglenook, so no loops to worry about.

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Stubby47

[Neil]

My layout Shell Island has a scenic section only two and half feet long but I get away with running bogie diesels and short freight trains on it.

 

 

Part of the secret is that it's relatively deep and partly that I haven't bunged in lots of track, just the minimum to keep me amused.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stubby47]

Look, if you're going to start throwing in pictures of Shell Island, I'm not playing anymore.

[ianblenk]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83658-marine-park/page-1

[Alex TM]

Hi again,

 

Thanks for all of the suggestions, ideas, and comments; they've all be both inspiring and helpful.

 

Over the last couple of months I have cleared out most of my model railway bits'n'pieces, and started to collect a few few models that take me back to a time where there was much to see on the local network, and much change too.  I now have a couple of class 26s in late 80s/early 90s condition, and will look to add some more, a couple of 20s, and perhaps a 37 or two.  What I do not have is space for anything larger than a 6'x1' plank.  This is what led to the OP.

 

My hope is to build something within that space that will refresh and stretch my modelling skills, and be interesting to operate.  It will be set in central Scotland in the early 90s.

 

Again, thanks for all the encouragement.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Neil]

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83658-marine-park/page-1

 

Thanks for jogging my memory, Marine Park is a gorgeous little layout.

[aac]

Take a look at St.Minions, small space, Class 25s, freight and DMU.

[Pacific231G]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been very impressed by a number of micro-layouts that I have seen both here and elsewhere.  At present, what stops me form having a go at one is that I prefer to run locos that are somewhat bigger than the small four and six wheeled shunters that most seem to us.  My ideal would be to run diesels such as classes 20/25/26/27, and 0-6-0 tender locos.  Has anyone built or seen a layout where this seems to work convincingly?  I don't want to go down the depot layout route.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

Hi Alex, a mainline loco working a pick up goods, shunting a local yard off the main line would be entirely prototypical. In fact, the small tank locos and diesel shunters generally used for shunting micro layouts would, in many places, be far less typical.  That could be as simple as an Inglenook  

I have designed a 4x1 H0 layout based on a private yard (and Chris Krupa's 009 layout Minbury Abbas) which provides gainful employment for a main line loco (in my case a 2-8-0) and a works shunter. 

 

 

I haven't built it (yet) but have mocked it up (with medium length points not short) and it seemed to all fit - I have some photos of that somewhere that I'll try to dig out.

The line at the rear is the "main line" and everything else belongs to the EP (private siding) The critical dimensions AFAIR were that the yard headshunt could hold the works shunter plus two wagons, each of the sidings can hold three or four wagons and the "main" line will hold five wagons or the main line loco plus three wagons  clear either side of the main line point accessing the yard .

 

One operating pattern is that a main line loco arrives with a train of five wagons, pulls a couple of them for the works forward clear of the main line points and backs them into the private siding where the works shunter distributes them between the two sidings. If, as is likely, there are too many wagons for the train loco to pull clear of the points, it needs to back up to pick up a second cut of one or two wagons, pulls forward and then backs those in. That's followed by the works shunter, after a bit of shunting,  pushing a couple of wagons to be collected to where the main line loco can couple up to them and pull them out onto the main and that can be repeated, the main line loco finally couples to all the outgoing wagons and is ready to take its train onward (in our imagination of course unless you add a simple fiddle yard or even one each end), Various permutations of this pattern are possible and you can add rules to the game such as, a wagon not going into the yard must remain on the main, the main  line loco is not allowed into the private sidings (track too lightly laid or something)  and vice versa for the private shunter.(works drivers not qualified to enter the main line)

 

To operate it with a single controller I'd suggest having the layout as two electrical sections one fed from the trailing end of the main line points and the other at the left hand end of the yard headshunt with section breaks where you'd need them anyway  A single two way switch would determine which section was live so the yard shunter and the train loco  would have to stay in their respective territories.  Co-ordination between the two locos would be needed. 

 

I'm thinking of this for a simple stand diorama for exhibitions possibly with a simple hidden siding plugged into each end so any kind of train could pass by on the main line but sometimes the yard has to be shunted. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Pacific231G

[john new]

On the inglenook I have started I have the headshunt lead long enough for an 0-6-0 tender loco or a bo-bo diesel. However to prevent cheating using the extra siding length when using shorter locos I plan to have a moveable stop block fixed with Velcro as the headshunt goes off stage.

 

Edited for spelling - autocorrections!!!

Edited December 18, 2018 by john new

[Stubby47]

On the inglenook I have started I have the headshunt lead long enough for an 0-6-0 tender loco or a bo-bo diesel. However to prevent cheating using the extra siding length when using shorter locos I plan to have a moveable stop block fixed with Velcro as the headshunt goes off stage.

 

Edited for spelling - autocorrections!!!

 

Don't - it's so much easier to cheat sometimes...

[Pacific231G]

On the inglenook I have started I have the headshunt lead long enough for an 0-6-0 tender loco or a bo-bo diesel. However to prevent cheating using the extra siding length when using shorter locos I plan to have a moveable stop block fixed with Velcro as the headshunt goes off stage.

 

Edited for spelling - autocorrections!!!

Excellent idea

 

I designed my French BLT so that, with the fiddle yard removed and replaced wth a blanking board it could function as a shunting layout sitting on the back of the table in my studio. with just enough length for a loco and three wagons to be clear, on the main line, of the goods yard entrance points. That enables it to be a sort of Inglenook plus. Unfortunately, though that worked fine with the 0-8-0T shunters I originally used, it was just a tad too short for the sort of locos (Bachmann North British built 140C Consolidations or Roco BB 63000 diesels) that would have typically have handled local goods services on such a line (and in H0 both are also very good slow runners)  So, I ended up building a four inch long extension piece fitted with a foam block to bolt onto the end in lieu of the fiddle yard. That works fine but it does look a bit odd. My  voies de debordement (goods yard sidings) are actually more like four or five wagons long rather than the Inglenook three but if I do want to run the Ingelnook puzzle properly it is only necessary to park a wagon or two with fairly stiff wheels and no couplings (I use Kadees) at the end of each siding.  

[Pacific231G]

Thanks for jogging my memory, Marine Park is a gorgeous little layout.

I  missed that thread first time round and it is indeed.

I was at college in South Shields in 1969-1970 so, though too late for steam, very strongly remember the Harton electrics as I passed that line everyday when walking along Westoe Road to and from the South Shields Marine and Technical College. They were an amazing sight but there were stiill a lot of interesting industrial railways in the North East at that time. Not having a car I managed to not see almost all of them.- curses- though I did get to see the amazing crane locos at Doxfords in Sunderland.  

[The Johnster]

How about an area of a much larger main line station, like a parcels bay off the main area and separated by a wall or some other scenic view blocker.  Maybe a dmu in rush hours but parcels traffic the rest of the time, with big engines bringing them in and being eventually released by 08s or 03s which then make up short rakes of NPCCS to be taken away by other big engines.  A siding off it can stable something like a restaurant or sleeping car, or maybe TPO vehicles, that are detached from a train to be re-attached to a return working later.  

 

It's the sort of place that might be where a director's saloon is stabled as well, and just about any loco you like can be involved in working that!

 

Your period sort of has to be pre the cessation of postal traffic, but can be anything up to that time; probably not suitable for current day operation though.  The bulk of the big station, probably with an overall roof, forms the backdrop and the general look should be fairly claustrophobic to explain the restricted space.  The inspiration is the suburban platforms at KX, but similar corners of large stations can be found elsewhere as well.  It would lend itself very well to night operation, as a lot of mails and parcels traffic was concentrated at this time, and one would have to clear the platform road(s) for the incoming dmus of the morning rush, and repeat this for the evening one, a sort of hybrid of Minories and an urban Inglenook.

 

Just thinking aloud, but I reckon it suits what you have said about the sort of operation you are after, and, depending on period, the biodiversity of locos and stock can be effectively limitless.

[sb67]

How about an area of a much larger main line station, like a parcels bay off the main area and separated by a wall or some other scenic view blocker.  Maybe a dmu in rush hours but parcels traffic the rest of the time, with big engines bringing them in and being eventually released by 08s or 03s which then make up short rakes of NPCCS to be taken away by other big engines.  A siding off it can stable something like a restaurant or sleeping car, or maybe TPO vehicles, that are detached from a train to be re-attached to a return working later.  

 

It's the sort of place that might be where a director's saloon is stabled as well, and just about any loco you like can be involved in working that!

 

Your period sort of has to be pre the cessation of postal traffic, but can be anything up to that time; probably not suitable for current day operation though.  The bulk of the big station, probably with an overall roof, forms the backdrop and the general look should be fairly claustrophobic to explain the restricted space.  The inspiration is the suburban platforms at KX, but similar corners of large stations can be found elsewhere as well.  It would lend itself very well to night operation, as a lot of mails and parcels traffic was concentrated at this time, and one would have to clear the platform road(s) for the incoming dmus of the morning rush, and repeat this for the evening one, a sort of hybrid of Minories and an urban Inglenook.

 

Just thinking aloud, but I reckon it suits what you have said about the sort of operation you are after, and, depending on period, the biodiversity of locos and stock can be effectively limitless.

That's a good idea, there's a couple of layouts that spring to mind, Dave Tailby's Victoria and I think it's called Westonmouth, a fantastic micro of part of Liverpool Street station. Although I stand to be corrected on the name of that.

Steve.

[37114]

How about an area of a much larger main line station, like a parcels bay off the main area and separated by a wall or some other scenic view blocker. Maybe a dmu in rush hours but parcels traffic the rest of the time, with big engines bringing them in and being eventually released by 08s or 03s which then make up short rakes of NPCCS to be taken away by other big engines. A siding off it can stable something like a restaurant or sleeping car, or maybe TPO vehicles, that are detached from a train to be re-attached to a return working later.

 

It's the sort of place that might be where a director's saloon is stabled as well, and just about any loco you like can be involved in working that!

 

Your period sort of has to be pre the cessation of postal traffic, but can be anything up to that time; probably not suitable for current day operation though. The bulk of the big station, probably with an overall roof, forms the backdrop and the general look should be fairly claustrophobic to explain the restricted space. The inspiration is the suburban platforms at KX, but similar corners of large stations can be found elsewhere as well. It would lend itself very well to night operation, as a lot of mails and parcels traffic was concentrated at this time, and one would have to clear the platform road(s) for the incoming dmus of the morning rush, and repeat this for the evening one, a sort of hybrid of Minories and an urban Inglenook.

 

Just thinking aloud, but I reckon it suits what you have said about the sort of operation you are after, and, depending on period, the biodiversity of locos and stock can be effectively limitless.

Agree, I used the same approach for the top level of Peafore Yard, effectively modelling part of Bristol temple meads in 4'. I never got bored as you could have such a variety of traffic, including motorail, Parcels and DMUs

[Bungus the Fogeyman]

 

Just for you Steve!

 

Disgusting of Market Harborough