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8 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi James,

 

For the Pullmans I have got some car spray paints by looking up RAL numbers for paint codes, I am happy with the blue but the grey seems too pale. I know a paint sprayer near by who has a RAL colour chart, hope fully then I can get the correct shade and get some ordered.

 

Gibbo.

When i need a new can of blue/grey im thinking ill be getting some mixed up, will be interested to see your results.

I have a note to try 7035,7038, 7047 & 9002 for rail grey and see which is closest.

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5 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

With all this rolling stock your layout must be massive, can we have some photos please?!!

 

Mike.

Hi Mike,

 

Bad news in this department.

 

Thanks to two particularly selfish women my house is now not much larger than my layout used to be. My last layout was donated to Liverpool MRC about three years ago, it was either that or the tip because I had nowhere to put it.

 

Here is is/was below:

 

P1010023.JPG.a7b44d9eea28cf5d2d04f92db4cc03ec.JPG

 

P1010029.JPG.f6f4ae180d586b5772dda1867fe085fc.JPG

 

The track plan was a running line past a small shed and was 18' 6" between the tunnel and the bridge with 20 loops around the back side. The operation was to run class 5 and lower locomotives on and off shed to pick up trains in the loops with the larger locomotives passing by on the running lines with expresses and through goods trains. It was originally built about 15 years ago to look like mid 1950's to 1960's to run all of my steam locomotives however since getting back into toy trains a couple of years ago I decided that 1973 would be a good year to set my next layout. I chose 1973 because that is when I got my first Ian Allen Combined Volume.

 

Here is the good news.

 

I've still got all four of my motorbikes, better yet I have retained my dignity despite the better efforts of both of my ex's.

 

Gibbo.

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6 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

When i need a new can of blue/grey im thinking ill be getting some mixed up, will be interested to see your results.

I have a note to try 7035,7038, 7047 & 9002 for rail grey and see which is closest.

Hi James,

 

I have RAL 5020 for BR Blue and is very close however I ordered  RAL 9002 for grey and it is a mile out.

 

My spray painting friend lent out his paint chart and never got it back so I might take a chance on 7035 but it's another £13 if its wrong and so I might see if I can find someone with a chart.

 

454146484_DSCF11711.JPG.32a82283ed3e0a0514d4a04f186c075b.JPG

Two strips of plasticard alternately painted with RAL 5020 and RAL 9002 with Railmatch enamel brushed onto one end. The blues look different as the spray is gloss and the Railmatch is satin which alters given the reflection. The Railmatch Rail Grey is both darker and has a brown tint to it.

 

Gibbo.

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25 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Two strips of plasticard alternately painted with RAL 5020 and RAL 9002 with Railmatch enamel brushed onto one end. The blues look different as the spray is gloss and the Railmatch is satin which alters given the reflection. The Railmatch Rail Grey is both darker and has a brown tint to it.

 

Can I suggest (at the risk of stating the obvious).... don't get too hung up on getting exact matches?

Paint fades, unless all your stock was painted at the same time, the blues and greys will vary slightly, plus varied levels of weathering will more than compensate for slight changes in tone.  Plus you are comparing your models with colour images from contemporary books and magazines, the colour printing used in these may not really reflect reality either (and current magazines have ridiculously strong, saturated colours IMO).  Then you're using your models indoors, illuminated by indoor bulbs, which do not generally have the same colour balance as natural light, so they won't look the same as outside anyway.....

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Just now, Northmoor said:

Can I suggest (at the risk of stating the obvious).... don't get too hung up on getting exact matches?

Paint fades, unless all your stock was painted at the same time, the blues and greys will vary slightly, plus varied levels of weathering will more than compensate for slight changes in tone.  Plus you are comparing your models with colour images from contemporary books and magazines, the colour printing used in these may not really reflect reality either (and current magazines have ridiculously strong, saturated colours IMO).  Then you're using your models indoors, illuminated by indoor bulbs, which do not generally have the same colour balance as natural light, so they won't look the same as outside anyway.....

Hi Northmoor,

 

You are quite correct regarding attaining an absolutely exact match, the RAL 5020 for blue is as near as makes no difference even when colour switch for natural and artificial lighting is taken into account. I have compared it to the blue paints used by Railmatch, Hornby, Replica, Bachmann and Lima, all of which are different yet the the RAL 5020 is well within a very close parameter of all of the above shades mentioned comparing most favourably.

 

The issue is with the grey, it really is considerably more pale than the shade required and so I shall have another look because it really is not at all suitable.

 

Gibbo.

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1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Mike,

 

Bad news in this department.

 

Thanks to two particularly selfish women my house is now not much larger than my layout used to be. My last layout was donated to Liverpool MRC about three years ago, it was either that or the tip because I had nowhere to put it.

 

Here is is/was below:

 

P1010023.JPG.a7b44d9eea28cf5d2d04f92db4cc03ec.JPG

 

P1010029.JPG.f6f4ae180d586b5772dda1867fe085fc.JPG

 

The track plan was a running line past a small shed and was 18' 6" between the tunnel and the bridge with 20 loops around the back side. The operation was to run class 5 and lower locomotives on and off shed to pick up trains in the loops with the larger locomotives passing by on the running lines with expresses and through goods trains. It was originally built about 15 years ago to look like mid 1950's to 1960's to run all of my steam locomotives however since getting back into toy trains a couple of years ago I decided that 1973 would be a good year to set my next layout. I chose 1973 because that is when I got my first Ian Allen Combined Volume.

 

Here is the good news.

 

I've still got all four of my motorbikes, better yet I have retained my dignity despite the better efforts of both of my ex's.

 

Gibbo.

That's a mighty sad tale, and also what looks like a very interesting layout.

 

Great that you've kept both dignity and motorbikes, and also above all your enthusiasm despite a massive setback.

 

John.

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9 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi James,

 

I have RAL 5020 for BR Blue and is very close however I ordered  RAL 9002 for grey and it is a mile out.

 

My spray painting friend lent out his paint chart and never got it back so I might take a chance on 7035 but it's another £13 if its wrong and so I might see if I can find someone with a chart.

 

454146484_DSCF11711.JPG.32a82283ed3e0a0514d4a04f186c075b.JPG

Two strips of plasticard alternately painted with RAL 5020 and RAL 9002 with Railmatch enamel brushed onto one end. The blues look different as the spray is gloss and the Railmatch is satin which alters given the reflection. The Railmatch Rail Grey is both darker and has a brown tint to it.

 

Gibbo.

Cheers Gibbo, the blue looks good to my eyes so will give that a go, my local place said they can do testers for about 7 quid *if i recall rightly* its an Auto Discount shop so perhaps theres one local to you? Will be interesting to see what you go for, wish i had a project on go that needs a rail grey paint but i have spray grey and blue to hand. I did chicken out and got a can of railmatch BR green at Frizinghall for the 48 rather than going down RAL trial and error.

Hope you get a new layout knocked up soon, will be quite the spectacle with the stock you are working on.

All the best 

James

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Wonder if this range is of any use?  They seem to do Rail blue and grey, as well as other basic, “steam age” railway colours:

https://mm1models.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=123
 

I have no experience of them nor do I readily recall reading about their use.  Says they are toluene, but not if that is suitable for use on plastic, or not.

 

Also says they are on sale at £7.95 each, but not how much they were before being on sale!

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Hi Folks,

 

Work on 25 317 has gone well, the grilles that were filled have been filed flat, sanded and the main body primed to show up any defects. A small amount of filler was applied into minor cracks and also blending in the cab roof dome to the head code box fairing. The body side windows have also been marked out cut in.

 

A job I was thinking would be difficult turned out to be quite easy was the triangular body side panel. To do this I made a plasticard template that I positioned correctly and then scribed around the inside of it with the end of a new scalpel blade leaving the outline of the panel.

 

DSCF1172.JPG.e9069e95d7c063dfbd44dc880dcc904f.JPG

Scribed panel and template.

 

Things are still moving with the AC electrics in that 83 010 has been primed and its bogies painted black along with the underframe details fitted to some of the 81's and 85's. The primer has shewn that a little more sanding is required.

 

 I have started work on the class 86's firstly filling the roof mounted switch and opening out the underframe details to give them more relief. Once I have finished stripping the paint from the WCML Pullmans I shall be doing the same with the 86's.

 

DSCF1173.JPG.27f0daa9712acadb27930363a8952c05.JPG

DSCF1174.JPG.e899649c723211f1eb5846d7be6ffb6b.JPG

Two of eBay's finest, the one on the left has had its underframe details opened out.

 

Gibbo.

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Hi Folks,

 

Here are two photographs to confuse us all the more, the upper in diffuse sunlight, the lower in direct sunlight. To my eye the darkest and least green blue is that of the Lima 20 followed by the Hornby 86. The 25's are similarly shaded but the newly painted one is more blue where as the Mainline 45 has the most green of all of them.

 

My feeling is that 25 064 which is painted Railmatch BR blue is the most pleasing to my eye although yellow ends and transfers may well alter how 25 317 looks.

 

Any way I've ordered a RAL colour chart and at the cost of a can of paint it may well be worth it, so I shall see where that takes me !

 

1551298728_DSCF11751.JPG.fe688049e5404d50796923080fcc3b6b.JPG

 

1562197546_DSCF11761.JPG.5de7ed7faba1b888cc279816a6fd8d7a.JPG

 

To Quote Marcus Aureleius:

"Tincta colore fit anima cogitationes."

 

Gibbo.

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Hi Folks,

 

Here are three photographs of 25 317 wearing RAL 5020 and 25 064 wearing Railmatch 207:

 

DSCF1177.JPG.c3d8acfb0c81dd9e54dad773c56e11f1.JPG

Out door diffuse sunlight.

 

DSCF1178.JPG.fb32c21a1b417a26cf067cf446695bf1.JPG

DSCF1179.JPG.bd86a7971b4ee6d6a2f6a40dbd3016d4.JPG

Indoor diffuse sunlight with the positions swapped for comparative purposes.

 

I'm really pleased with my painting experiment as it has gone very well unlike other paint jobs where the varnish ruins the whole job at the last moment. The satin lacquer has an effect that has altered the shade to make it appear more like the Railmatch shade in that it seems to have both lightened and made the colour a slight more green, a definite bonus.

 

Below listed are the paints used and the order in which they were applied:

  1. Halfords grey primer.
  2. Two coats of APS RAL 5020 (gloss finish).
  3. Masking for yellow ends.
  4. Halfords white primer.
  5. Two coats Humbrol RC 407 acrylic.
  6. Apply transfers.
  7. Seal transfers with B&Q acrylic clear wood varnish.
  8. Halfords satin lacquer.

The APS car paint and the Humbrol and B&Q acrylics are not affected by the Halfords satin lacquer which gives an excellent finish with no fuss at all. The B&Q varnish is only applied over the transfers and brushes out without leaving any discernable marks ready for the lacquer. The reason for using the Humbrol RC 407 is that it is a yellow paint that actually has the ability to give solid colour in only two coats with the added advantage that I can spray over it with the Halfords Lacquer.

 

The reason I experimented with the 25 is that stripping the paint from a diesel body is much less trouble than that of an electric regarding breaking fiddly bits off the roof. Now that I have a painting system that actually works and doesn't curl up the transfers I can get on a paint lots of locomotives and coaches, trucks will get the same treatment except that I shall use Halfords matt lacquer. Once the RAL colour chart arrives I shall find all the respective colours, list them here and then get busy.

 

Gibbo.

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FWIW I'd say that the swap over of positions in the last two pictures shows how close RAL 5020 and Railmatch 207 actually are.

 

If you are spraying the whole thing with the Halfords Satin Lacquer (Stage 8), why do you need Stage 7 at all, as the Stage 8 should seal the transfers?

 

Your plan seems a good one, Rail Blue is rail blue, and like any other colour ought to be consistent over a set of models, prior to the effects of weathering anyway. In practise that isn't achieveable, not unless you respray all your RTR anyway, and life isn't that long, but the closer to consistency the better.

 

John.

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2 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

FWIW I'd say that the swap over of positions in the last two pictures shows how close RAL 5020 and Railmatch 207 actually are.

 

If you are spraying the whole thing with the Halfords Satin Lacquer (Stage 8), why do you need Stage 7 at all, as the Stage 8 should seal the transfers?

 

Your plan seems a good one, Rail Blue is rail blue, and like any other colour ought to be consistent over a set of models, prior to the effects of weathering anyway. In practise that isn't achieveable, not unless you respray all your RTR anyway, and life isn't that long, but the closer to consistency the better.

 

John.

Hi John,

 

The reason for the acrylic varnish of stage 7 is that the Halfords satin lacquer causes the transfers to curl up and peel off which is the reason sealing them against the lacquer.

 

As for the similarity of the colours, the colours seem more varied in the photographs than appear to my eye.

 

Gibbo.

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Hi Folks,

 

I've found another class 25, I know what you're thinking.

 

It was in a boxes of bits waiting to be converted into a 25/3 but the lack of a class 33 body and larger wheels stalled the project and I had forgotten about, it was discovered when I put the remnants of the class 33 body, which gave up its bogies for the second class 84, into the body shell box. The rest of it was in the underframes box and a motor in the bogie box. Considering I bough 25 for the 25/3 project I really ought to have looked in the boxes first !

 

Now I know my painting system is successful I shall have a big painting session and the new 25 will be put through the paint shop along side the AC electrics.

 

692948587_DSCF11801.JPG.4fb61b1c7e0ac594df9e625b5fecfcf8.JPG

Hornby self coloured plastic does not stand up well to scrutiny !

 

I haven't yet decided what number or livery this locomotive will be. My preffered option is blue with small arrows on the doors with numbers on all four cab sides should I find a photograph or, failing that, it may end up as 7584 in plain green and full yellow ends without the bodyside stripe.

 

Gibbo.

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On 17/09/2020 at 11:24, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

Work on 25 317 has gone well.

 

A job I was thinking would be difficult turned out to be quite easy was the triangular body side panel. To do this I made a plasticard template that I positioned correctly and then scribed around the inside of it with the end of a new scalpel blade leaving the outline of the panel.

 

DSCF1172.JPG.e9069e95d7c063dfbd44dc880dcc904f.JPG

Scribed panel and template.

 

I have chickened out of this on my 25 so far so might have to pinch your tip.

 

Martyn.

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9 hours ago, Signaller69 said:

 

I have chickened out of this on my 25 so far so might have to pinch your tip.

 

Martyn.

Hi Martyn,

 

My 24's and 25's will have to do without as they are already painted but they all have body side grilles so at least there is something to look at rather than the plain sides of the 25/3.

 

Gibbo.

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Hi Folks,

 

Here is the latest from the paint shop with five electric locomotives quite well on with, four of which have been spray painted with number transfers applied. So far I have two class 81's, an 83, and an 84 sprayed in RAL 5020 as Rail Blue, the 85 is being brush painted with Railmatch 315, late version Electric Blue.

 

A numbering trouble is that I forgot to apply the numbers to the class 85 which should have been done as I did the un-refurbished  81. As it has only had its first coat I should be able to scrape some paint back locally and glue the numbers on and then patch repaint before second coat.

 

The class 82 is also awaiting numbers, this is because it was brush painted with Railmatch BR Blue some time back and I only gloss varnished the cab sides yesterday. There is yet a slight tack to the varnish, I shall likely number it when I do the class 25.

 

The class 25 is missing as it had just been finish coated when a rain shower came across and somewhat spoiled it, the perils of outdoor spray painting. No Matter it has been dunked into the Dettol and will be sorted out as soon as.

DSCF1190.JPG.828407b1c3a4f2467ea9b9301f8919e3.JPG

E3021, 81 019, 83 010, 84 003 and E3071.

 

Gibbo.

Edited by Gibbo675
Improper grammar.
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9 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Good prototype observation: you've captured the 84s unique lower cabside numbers than on the other classes.

Hi Northmoor,

 

The reason for the lower mounted numbers of the class 84's is that the sand box filler cover is in the top corner of the front of the cab just under the quarterlight window. All of the other AC electric locomotives including the class 86 and the class 87 also had their sandbox fillers below the quarterlight window however they are positioned just above the cab floor level vertically.

 

Gibbo.

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I wouldn't get hung up and worry about differing shades of blue/yellow or whatever, if you ever ever walked round a shed or yard youd be hard pushed to identify what colours you'd just seen from a chart presented to you.

Even the undercoat can make a difference, try grey or white under warning panel yellow, looks totally different.

That's before you even start with weathering!

 

Mike.

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On 16/09/2020 at 14:26, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Mike,

 

Bad news in this department.

 

Thanks to two particularly selfish women my house is now not much larger than my layout used to be. My last layout was donated to Liverpool MRC about three years ago, it was either that or the tip because I had nowhere to put it.

 

Here is is/was below:

 

P1010023.JPG.a7b44d9eea28cf5d2d04f92db4cc03ec.JPG

 

P1010029.JPG.f6f4ae180d586b5772dda1867fe085fc.JPG

 

The track plan was a running line past a small shed and was 18' 6" between the tunnel and the bridge with 20 loops around the back side. The operation was to run class 5 and lower locomotives on and off shed to pick up trains in the loops with the larger locomotives passing by on the running lines with expresses and through goods trains. It was originally built about 15 years ago to look like mid 1950's to 1960's to run all of my steam locomotives however since getting back into toy trains a couple of years ago I decided that 1973 would be a good year to set my next layout. I chose 1973 because that is when I got my first Ian Allen Combined Volume.

 

Here is the good news.

 

I've still got all four of my motorbikes, better yet I have retained my dignity despite the better efforts of both of my ex's.

 

Gibbo.

I am glad to hear you managed to keep some of your railway and your bikes as well. I must be a very man as my wife of nearly 30 years has a understanding love of model railways. In which I mean it keeps me out of her hair, and a great love of motorbikes. But alas I only 2 of them. A 650 Honda and a Bonneville. I would be in real trouble with her if I tried to get rid of either....... :)

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On 27/09/2020 at 22:41, Gibbo675 said:

Here is the latest from the paint shop with five electric locomotives quite well on

Gibbo,

 

If you ever do an 'original' class 81, here's the roof photo you'll need:

2020-09-29_222206.jpg.e9ddc21d10b532c861a9f53f4865974a.jpg

 

It was certainly a lot simpler ...

 

Ian

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Hi Folks,

 

The painting of locomotives has been delayed due to either or both poor weather and poor light in the evenings so I have made up some rudimentary cab interiors. I only had four left which would have been enough for two locomotives however four more body shells turned up and now require some more cab interiors to match the ones I originally made.

 

They will be fitted in and secured with just a spot of glue to facilitate easy removal should it be necessary to take them out should a window become displaced.

 

DSCF1193.JPG.c7fd34dca6417819e7b889dd2ae59d89.JPG

 

Gibbo.

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Hi Folks,

 

All but one of the AC electrics are now best part finished with transfers and satin lacquer having been applied. The missing locomotive is the class 82 for the paint job went a bit wrong and it is now in the paint stripper. The locomotives have been fitted with glazing, cab interiors and head code numerals. I shall fit draw hooks, buffer beam details and etched arrows another day once I get around to acquiring some.

 

DSCF1195.JPG.90e6716a55831e32e7ef00cd251ba337.JPG

Not quite a line up missing an 82 !

 

Gibbo.

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