Bachmann 2019 Speculation

[drt7uk]

I was told by my local dealer that indeed Hatton’s and Bachmann have fallen out big time over the Class 66. From what I was told, in the supply agreement between any retailer and Bachmann, you are not allowed to produce something Bachmann already produce, eg the Class 66 or Bachmann will refuse to supply them. They were happy to go along with Hatton’s own models as Bachmann didn’t produce them in any scale but the proverbial hit the fan when Hatton’s announced the Class 66.

 

That is annoying as the Hatton's price for that loco is a good one. Unfortunately even on the Bachmann availability page it's just showing 'TBA' for the D16 which doesn't make me very hopeful it'll come out in 2019...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Even Bachmann UK, whose tie to a single producer may actually be a handicap.   

 It has been looking like that to me for a while. Kader's objectives can naturally take priority over what any wholly owned subsidiary requires to most effectively compete in its market. Kader may even still hold the opinion that they remain dominant in the 'modeller' sector of the UK model railway market. That would make Bachmann UK vulnerable to continuous erosion of share by nimbler competitors free to 'pick off' weaker models; and might well render ineffectual previous marketing agreements made when they had enough dominance to give real leverage. (A group of the larger specialist retailers making a cooperative sourcing agreement strikes me as rather significant.)

[Bob Reid]

I would think there's a bigger kick up the backside for Hatton's - They're losing one of most important brands which they can sell by the truckload that at present they are selling zero. Us, the customers, will just move elsewhere to buy them so Bachmann won't lose out (save for one less outlet) in the long term but Hatton's sure will if they can't compromise and get Bachmann back on board.  

[Dunsignalling]

I would think there's a bigger kick up the backside for Hatton's - They're losing one of most important brands which they can sell by the truckload that at present they are selling zero. Us, the customers, will just move elsewhere to buy them so Bachmann won't lose out (save for one less outlet) in the long term but Hatton's sure will if they can't compromise and get Bachmann back on board.  

There's plenty of Bachmann stuff still listed as "more than 10 in stock" at Hatton's after several weeks without any topping up, so clearly not everything in a blue box sells by the truckload.....

 

Many surmise the dispute to be rooted in Hatton's deciding to produce Class 66 models in competition with Bachmann. If so, and if Hatton's have reached a "point of no return" in the project, there may not be much room for compromise on their part.

 

If no truce can be established, and Bachmann choose to make the boycott permanent, Hatton's will have nothing to lose by going after more prototypes that are overdue for upgrades. That means duplication, with the old Bachmann version being effectively superseded and leaving them to choose whether to discontinue it, undercut a superior equivalent on price, or improve their own model, knowing that sales will inevitably be split, with Hatton's very likely having a head start.

 

As ever, the winner is usually whoever gets new product to market first. Based on recent form, I'd not be betting on Bachmann to manage that.

 

John

Edited December 27, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Bob Reid]

I would doubt very much if Hatton's have the cash up front for any major expansion into manufacturing of the like which the major manufacturer can - DJM is perhaps a good example of where your aspirations can if not careful exceed your finances. Don't pretend that the loss of Bachmann sales hasn't affected their profitability.  They are already heavily committed to projects that require cash up front but have no guarantee of success and may well in one case leave them with 57 varieties of 1 'oo' loco that's being sold to a limited market, and that's before you look at the planned 'O' gauge releases.

 

No, I'm sure they'll kiss and make up eventually with some form of compromise deal.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Of course they will settle. There's pressure both sides. For Bachmann, it's do we want our product prominently advertised by the most effective retailer? Well, duh...

[Foden]

I would doubt very much if Hatton's have the cash up front for any major expansion into manufacturing of the like which the major manufacturer can

 

I've no information on what Hattons accounts look like, but they've been a major player for years now, and a very successful one. I wouldn't mind taking a punt that their accounts aren't so far apart from those of the major manufacturers to what you might assume.

 

If the 66 is a big hit, which I think it will be, a very well presented model at a very sensible (by today's standards) price, then I wouldn't atall be surprised to see more follow in numbers.

[newbryford]

  

 

 

Pipe dream would be a Bachmann retooled 66, with the ability to fit the current body onto an upgraded super detailed chassis. As I do not want to let go of my tube map 66.

 

But that would mean retaining one of the things that lets the current model down - the joint line between body and chassis above the light clusters.

 

TBH, I won't be swapping out of any of my Bach 66s (it isn't a "bad" model), it's just that I'll buy a Hattons 66 when I want another one.

[Clive Mortimore]

I wonder if they will re-announce the class 25/0. I still have 2 of these reserved at what was then my local model shop.

[delticfan]

I've no information on what Hattons accounts look like, but they've been a major player for years now, and a very successful one. I wouldn't mind taking a punt that their accounts aren't so far apart from those of the major manufacturers to what you might assume.

 

If the 66 is a big hit, which I think it will be, a very well presented model at a very sensible (by today's standards) price, then I wouldn't atall be surprised to see more follow in numbers.

Hattons are also doing good work in O gauge with a fantastic A3 and A4 on the way, both of which have taken on board constructive criticism in the design stage. I would agree Hattons must be approaching the size of some manufacturers and good luck to them.

[spamcan61]

They are a limited company, so basic financial details are available from Companies House:-

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05131251/filing-history

 

Around 13 million quid turnover in 2017 FY

 

 

Not sure what happened here;-

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10877293

 

I've no information on what Hattons accounts look like, but they've been a major player for years now, and a very successful one. I wouldn't mind taking a punt that their accounts aren't so far apart from those of the major manufacturers to what you might assume.

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

Can't we just let them sort it out themselves before we get another thread locked?

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Willie Whizz]

Isn't it about time we had another BR-era D11/1 with different name and number?  I can't help but feel they missed (yet another) trick by not bringing-out something in line with one of the recent WWI anniversaries, such as Jutland for 2016 or Ypres for 2017.

 

Or did they so heavily over-produce 'Prince Albert' that they killed the market?  That doesn't seem quite right given that I don't recall it as one of those models that was ever heavily discounted, despite a lengthy shelf-life.  Odd ...

[Robin Brasher]

Hattons have still got two 31-146 Prince Alberts @ £101.96. These are not in the Sale of the Century and Hattons does not show the recommended retail price. As other retailers have sold theirs for around £169.95 it looks like the Hattons versions are heavily discounted and they Hattons have not sold them yet.

['CHARD]

I thought the going rate for a Prince Albert was £60-65 

[Steamport Southport]

Isn't it about time we had another BR-era D11/1 with different name and number?  I can't help but feel they missed (yet another) trick by not bringing-out something in line with one of the recent WWI anniversaries, such as Jutland for 2016 or Ypres for 2017.

 

Or did they so heavily over-produce 'Prince Albert' that they killed the market?  That doesn't seem quite right given that I don't recall it as one of those models that was ever heavily discounted, despite a lengthy shelf-life.  Odd …

 

Isn't Somme due? I think it was due earlier but was delayed.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/337560/Bachmann_Branchline_31_146A_Class_D11_1_4_4_0_62667_Somme_in_BR_black_with_early_emblem/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

 

Jason

[Robin Brasher]

I thought the going rate for a Prince Albert was £60-65 

Perhaps that is why Hattons have not sold their last two models.

['CHARD]

Perhaps that is why Hattons have not sold their last two models.

 

I think maybe it's a very niche market. 

[TravisM]

Some more colours on the 90s would be nice and might explain why they were nudged back a few months so they can drop another 3 at the same time and benefit economies of scale in making a few more chassis and bodies (perhaps...)

 

MK2Fs in late Swallow or Virgin would be nice too, please..

I hope that when Bachmann finally release their Class 90, their second release will include EWS and DBS versions.

[newbryford]

I think maybe it's a very niche market. 

 

OUCH! That's a very piercing comment..............

Edited December 27, 2018 by newbryford

[dogbox321]

......Hattons are to become Bachmann Retailer of the year?

[2750Papyrus]

A decent British outline powered turntable would be good from whatever source.

[Robin Brasher]

A decent British outline powered turntable would be good from whatever source.

Already being made in Swanage. Please see https://greenwoodmodelrailwayproducts.co.uk

Edited December 27, 2018 by Robin Brasher

[Ben Alder]

A decent British outline powered turntable would be good from whatever source.

AKA models do a fairly British looking 50'ish one.

 

[DLPG]

I still think the A5 with its wide geographical spread would be a great model.

 

The J27 is rumoured to have been scanned and always polls well.

 

The black 5 was scanned recently on the NYMR according to the MPD Facebook page so we might be about to get an upgrade.