Bachmann 2019 Speculation

[nathan70000]

Now Hornby have surprised me by not doing it, I'm reasonably certain there will be an SECR 'D' with an NRM limited edition in the full Victorian livery.

 

Hornby have left the door open for a NER 0-6-0 now, I'd be surprised to see one from Bachmann this year but you never know. The latter seems to be carving a niche in pretty pre-grouping passenger machines, so I'm going to guess a Midland Spinner might be on offer next.

 

I can definitely forsee some GCR coaching stock to go with all those D11s. I'm not particularly au fait with Bachmann releasing strategy but I don't expect more than two new locomotives.

[gibbsrule3]

I'm so hoping for a flush fronted peak surely its the missing link in classic BR Diesel traction list , with and without the later fitted head light ,complete with TI snails or TO rabbits ....  that would tick many a wanted box ,  come on Bachmann pull the rabbit out of the hat the first batch will sell out just like that ..... 

 

and a 123 /124 DMU

 

emu wise 508 and or over head 25kv 315 derivatives 

 

Andy H

[GreenGiraffe22]

Yes, after looking through Hornby's announcement (More new Terriers, yay!)   over to Bachmann for some SECR / LBSCR rolling stock perhaps?

[Anglian]

The gestation period for models at Bachmann is so long , that once announced someone else can nip in get it to market faster. 

 

Was the H1 Brighton Atlantic an exception to this? I genuinely don't know but I recall being surprised by the announcement.

[Dick Turpin]

Was the H1 Brighton Atlantic an exception to this? I genuinely don't know but I recall being surprised by the announcement.

 

They tend to develop two similar designs together lately, hence the H1 was sprung on us soon after the announcement that the H2 was almost ready to hit the shops. Which might give us a clue as to something extremely similar to something else we know is already in development, or maybe of two closely related prototypes which might be developed side by side. 

[Neal Ball]

Interesting to read about the Hattons / Bachmann debacle.

 

Given the supply chain issues Bachmann have had and how patient the retailers were at the time, it all smacks of a playground scrap.

 

Of course...... it may well be, that a clause in a contract that says you can not introduce a rival item to something in our catalogue, could be considered an unfair contract term, under the unfair contract terms act 1977. The penalties for which could be..... that the lawyers are the only winners.

[B15nac]

Really hoping for a new Manor it Must be one of the most wanted models to be made.

 

Kind regards Neil

[Mark Saunders]

Interesting to read about the Hattons / Bachmann debacle.

 

 

It will be interesting to find out how much of this  is real or imagined?

[gelboy45]

What I am hoping for are some new 009 locos and stock. Especially a diesel......

 

Gerry

[Dunsignalling]

Really hoping for a new Manor it Must be one of the most wanted models to be made.

 

Kind regards Neil

I really think that Bachmann need to get a wiggle on if they are ever going to do a new Manor. The competition isn't going to hold off much longer, and next year might easily be too late. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if Dapol have it up their sleeve as a "Plan B" now their big prairie has been gazumped....  

 

Bachmann really need to demonstrate some innovation and ability to deliver the fruits of it this year in the face of what looks like an aggressively resurgent Hornby.

 

Revealing product deferrals on the very day when their biggest competitor announces an ambitious selection of new stuff sends out altogether the wrong kind of message. 

 

If "B" thought they could "bury" the news among the hubbub surrounding "H", they got it badly wrong.

 

John

Edited January 7, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[The Johnster]

Dapol are in fact in quite a strong position to bring out a Manor on the back of the mogul chassis, and it is the obvious consolation prize now that Hornby have left fielded them with the newly announced large prairie.  The problem is that, unless they have been doing a lot of development work in secret (and they would surely have announced it with the mogul if they had been working on it), they will take a long time to get to market with it.  OTOH, nobody else seems to be interested in the loco, a regular topper of wishlist polls, at the moment, which might give Dap the time they need!

 

In the meantime, if I were looking for a Manor, I'd be working on the idea of using a Mainline type body (they were pretty good) with a chassis from either the Dap mogul or Hornby prairie when they are available; decent body and modern chassis performance.  Front bogie from Hornby Grange or Bachmann Hall should do the biz ahead of the coupled wheels.

 

This has not been a good day for Bachmann or Dapol, both of whom seem to have been caught badly wrong footed.  But Hornby have set themselves a bit of a challenge; they need to be able to deliver to market at the time they say they can or a great deal of face and customer trust will be lost.

 

But the Manor remains an open goal, as does the Swindon Cross Country dmu.  Trouble is there are no players at that end of the field...

Edited January 8, 2019 by The Johnster

[mdvle]

If "B" thought they could "bury" the news among the hubbub surrounding "H", they got it badly wrong.

 

I don't know, relatively speaking barely a whimper.  Without the Hornby announcements the Bachmann news would have been 5+ pages now instead of (at this time) 1 message into page 2.

 

But, to try and get back on topic, we now obviously have some more clarity in terms of stuff that can now presumably be eliminated unless Bachmann intend to duplicate.

 

Though speaking of duplication, might Bachmann feel it might be worthwhile announcing a Mk2e given the Hornby move with the 2f?  Or might the number of existing duplications make Bachmann a bit more cautious (thinking the 24/25/121).

[keybuk]

Bachmann will lose if they start a fight with Hattons as they have the turnover to commission model runs from the new manufacturing company's directly and the customer base who use them as the first port of call on the web. It will cost Bachmanns big in volume sales but might be good the the smaller model shop. Bachmann may decided to go down the direct sales route via the web but that doesn't seem to have worked to well for Hornby. On a side note has Hornby/Airfix put out of Toy Galaxy?

 

B   

There are other shops.

 

For me a huge red flag is Hatton's absolute silence on the issue to their customers who have open pre-orders for items that other shops are now listing as In Stock.

 

'twas only a few weeks ago that I defended Hatton's in another thread, on the basis of their great service - and I'm now seriously considered cancelling all (about 8,500 quid worth, eep!) of my pre-orders with them, regardless of manufacturer, and moving them elsewhere.

 

It's just as easy to switch shop as it is to stop buying one manufacturer's model when a better version comes out.

[Legend]

It will be interesting to find out how much of this  is real or imagined?

Try ordering some new Bachmann model ie one they haven’t had in stock for a while , and see what happens . I see Hattons were with Sams Trains over on YouTube giving an informative review of Hornby 2019. I wonder what they’ll do with Bachmann, probably nothing!

[hamish_barb]

So when are Bachmann announcing their 2019 range? Sorry I've missed this.

[ruggedpeak]

Hatton's is a large, broad-based retailer of new stock from across the industry, and now have a hefty presence in the pre-owned market, too. As such, their cash-flow will be less affected by the peaks and troughs that inevitably feature in a single manufacturer's business model.

 

I agree that Bachmann should tread very carefully here. A long-term boycott on supplying Hatton's could easily have the opposite effect to "bringing them into line" and stimulate further head-on competition, which they might well be able to resource. Bachmann's range is not short of fairly "staple" items that would be vulnerable to that. 

 

If the current situation becomes entrenched, there's no certainty that Hatton's don't already have (say) a class 37 and/or 47 under development or, on existing form, that Bachmann would be even capable of getting a new one across the finishing line ahead of them if it turned out they did.

 

John

Are you aware that Hattons nows supplies it's own brand models to other retailers and has launched its own brand of scenic materials? This is about rather more than just class 66's. Hattons appear to have deliberately targeted a number of key lines of Bachmann's business. And unlike Hornby, Bachmann have no direct sales process or access to major high street retailers to fall back on nor do they have the brand recognition that Hornby have. Hattons' action seem to pose a serious threat to Bachmann's business. Look at the likes of Uber and others - if Hattons dominate both retail and manufacture we the modellers will lose out. Suckered by cheap 66's we damage Bachmann.

 

Do the math - a simple business strategy would be take out the weaker/more exposed of the two main manufacturers, replace them in the marketplace and then produce the newly tooled 37's etc. However without serious competition prices won't be £150 a loco but something more akin to Roco or Fleischmann. Then the squealing will really start!

 

Be careful what you wish for. I hope Bachmann come out fighting next week.

[Ian Hargrave]

I really wonder whether some of us understand what actually IS going on here,Thus we indulge ourselves in bullish speculation,most of it garnered from the odd conversation either here or in retail dealers scattered around the UK. We think we know but in truth we don’t.

Rumours fester in their retelling.

 

Whether this is partly as a consequence of comparison with yesterday’s upbeat Hornby PR release,I cannot say.I have a gut feeling that some of it is and by default beginning to look suspiciously like triumphalism. Maybe it’s time for a reminder that Bachmann UK are controlled by events and decisions taken by its parent company in China over which they have little control.Witness current supply difficulties from a new factory which is only just up and running and getting into its stride.So rather than work ourselves up with dire soothsaying and finger wagging just ask yourself if you would really want to see Bachmann seriously weakened by this unfortunate situation.They make some pretty good stuff don’t they ? We need them....period

 

Similarly Hattons too are making great strides in the market with its own branding with,it has to be said,mixed success.

 

We need them too.

 

Give them room to sort things out....please

[Dunsignalling]

Are you aware that Hattons nows supplies it's own brand models to other retailers and has launched its own brand of scenic materials? This is about rather more than just class 66's. Hattons appear to have deliberately targeted a number of key lines of Bachmann's business. And unlike Hornby, Bachmann have no direct sales process or access to major high street retailers to fall back on nor do they have the brand recognition that Hornby have. Hattons' action seem to pose a serious threat to Bachmann's business. Look at the likes of Uber and others - if Hattons dominate both retail and manufacture we the modellers will lose out. Suckered by cheap 66's we damage Bachmann.

 

Do the math - a simple business strategy would be take out the weaker/more exposed of the two main manufacturers, replace them in the marketplace and then produce the newly tooled 37's etc. However without serious competition prices won't be £150 a loco but something more akin to Roco or Fleischmann. Then the squealing will really start!

 

Be careful what you wish for. I hope Bachmann come out fighting next week.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but my worry is that Bachmann's ability to "come out fighting" is somewhat in doubt.

 

Kader undoubtedly has the clout to strengthen their position, but seems unwilling to back-up their UK arm with timely delivery of new product.

 

As for the (potential) price thing, would it really be the end of the world (for most of us) if we could only afford half as many new locos?

 

If I'm honest, it might help restore my modeller-collector balance somewhat.

 

John

Edited January 8, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[ThaneofFife]

I really think that Bachmann need to get a wiggle on if they are ever going to do a new Manor. The competition isn't going to hold off much longer, and next year might easily be too late. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if Dapol have it up their sleeve as a "Plan B" now their big prairie has been gazumped....  

 

Bachmann really need to demonstrate some innovation and ability to deliver the fruits of it this year in the face of what looks like an aggressively resurgent Hornby.

 

Revealing product deferrals on the very day when their biggest competitor announces an ambitious selection of new stuff sends out altogether the wrong kind of message. 

 

If "B" thought they could "bury" the news among the hubbub surrounding "H", they got it badly wrong.

 

John

 

Taking your reference to the word "innovation" out of that (assuming I have the context correct and that you wasn't meaning innovation in terms of ability to deliver) I think it could be construed as very unfair to say Bachmann have not been leaders in innovation.   

 

Purely from a D&E aspect they have come out with the superb Class 85 loco (Innovative in terms that it knocked the poor Heljan Class 86 into a cocked hat for its right first time accuracy and detail and functions), the class 90 electric is coming soon with a DCC operated pantograph and correct dcc lighting functionality, interior lighting on the 350 EMU, Blue Pullman and other units, dcc on board coaches with tail lamp options, DBSO Mk2f with various lighting functions, sprung loco buffers, superb Mk2f coach interior detail, dare I say it - pioneers of a the first RTR close couplings mechanisms for rolling stock, loco engine room lighting and I believe they were the first 00 gauge RTR manufacturer to pioneer diesel cab interior lighting functions,  easily accessible decoder spaces by means of removable roof panels, access to DC switches via removable parts (ie; the Class 85)...….there must be loads more examples. Bachmann seem to do many "firsts" and long may that tradition continue.  Always nice when they hit us with a surprise new "trick".

 

Apologies if I have misinterpreted you though...….

Edited January 8, 2019 by ThaneofFife

[ELTEL]

To be honest, I've stopped shopping with Hattons already. I'd rather shop with someone smaller, even if it does cost me a few shekels more. I know I am more likely to get good customer service if something goes wrong.

I agree with your comment in supporting smaller model shops hopefully your local model shop, but I have found the Hattons customer service to be first class with there customer service.

 

I will continue to use my local model shop and Hattons

 

Eltel

[Ryde-on-time]

I'd love to be proved wrong, but my worry is that Bachmann's ability to "come out fighting" is somewhat in doubt.

 

Kader undoubtedly has the clout to strengthen their position, but seems unwilling to back-up their UK arm with timely delivery of new product.

 

As for the (potential) price thing, would it really be the end of the world (for most of us) if we could only afford half as many new locos?

 

If I'm honest, it might help restore my modeller-collector balance somewhat.

 

John

I'm not sure that there is a problem with Kader not wanting to support the UK arm

 

Bachmann seemed to be making good progress last year which many announced models progressing (and a good number of new items being shipped). They did however explain that they suffered a setback - explained here

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138683-Bachmann-explain-unforeseen-delay-issue/

 

Perhaps therefore Kader may have been unable to have supported the UK arm in recent months as much as it would have liked to, but it would appear that once new factories are fully commisioned they should be in a good position once again for progress to increase

 

For me Bachmann have always produced models to an excellent standard with good paintwork, details which don't fall off and which work! They have also branched out into other areas that interest me such as the 009 range.That's why I always take notice of any announcement they make.  I don't think their announcements will be extensive, simply because of the position they have been in, but hopefully there will be one or two things that they have perhaps been working away at already 

[adb968008]

Dapol are in fact in quite a strong position to bring out a Manor on the back of the mogul chassis, and it is the obvious consolation prize now that Hornby have left fielded them with the newly announced large prairie.

...

But the Manor remains an open goal, as does the Swindon Cross Country dmu. Trouble is there are no players at that end of the field...

I think yesterdays announcement has made a Dapol Manor less likely.

Dapol have paid the price for going public too early on the 61xx and Terrier.

Hornby stated they heard someone was doing it and decided to “cut steel” on theirs in response to the threat.

 

Both Hornby and Bachmann could do a Manor very quickly and cheaply using some of their existing parts for other toolings.

Given the long development lead time, and knowing its an easy guess it might be in the works, is it worth the risk ?

 

Hornbys statement introduces greater risk for competitors... speak too soon they will take you on, dont speak up early enough you wont know if the idea is a good one or not.

 

I prefer new toolings of unmodelled types than re-runs or duplications of recent-old so I am hoping for a Saint or a County rather than a Manor next week from Bachmann, I am hoping they choose not to retool the class 55.

Edited January 8, 2019 by adb968008

[Mike Storey]

It is vital that Bachmann remain strong and active in the UK model rail market. They are the only manufacturer (along with Heljan) who have comprehensively tackled the post-1960's scene, especially decent EMU's, which the red box merely flirts with.

 

I don't foresee much new in their announcement next week, especially given the state of their progress update on their website (many of the models I await have slipped into TBA again), but I do hope to see some assurances about their production lines.

[Connor43002]

What im hoping for from Bachmann in their 2019 range:

 

Class 150/0 in GWR livery

Class 150/2 in FGW 'local lines' livery

Class 158 in FGW 'local lines' livery

Class 158/9 in GWR and FGW 'Local lines' livery

Class 57/6, 57604 in the updated GWR burnswick green special livery with the GWR logos on the cabs

[Ian Hargrave]

I think yesterdays announcement has made a Dapol Manor less likely.

Dapol have paid the price for going public too early on the 61xx and Terrier.

Hornby stated they heard someone was doing it and decided to “cut steel” on theirs in response to the threat.

Both Hornby and Bachmann could do a Manor very quickly and cheaply using some of their existing parts for other toolings.

Given the long development lead time, and knowing its an easy guess it might be in the works, is it worth the risk ?

Hornbys statement introduces greater risk for competitors... speak too soon they will take you on, dont speak up early enough you wont know if the idea is a good one or not.

I prefer new toolings of unmodelled types than re-runs or duplications of recent-old so I am hoping for a Saint or a County rather than a Manor next week from Bachmann, I am hoping they choose not to retool the class 55.

Agree wholeheartedly with your last sentence.There are however some conclusions that are,shall we say with tongue in cheek,a walk on the wild side ?