How to know the difference

[rab]

I have tried searching for this,

but couldn't find anything.

 

How do you tell whether a Farish item

is Poole or China production, either

from the model or the box?

 

Is it related to the part numbers,

(37*-*** v 4 digit numbers)?

 

Is it related to the name,

(Graham Farish v Grafar)?

 

Is it related to the box printing,

(yellow print v gold)?

 

Are there any other differences

to look for?

[frobisher]

If the box says Graham Farish by Bachmann, then it's made in China. I'm 90% positive that all Chinese production should be so marked, and that existing stocks at takeover (which would have been Poole manufactured) went out in their original boxes.

[Steadfast]

Yep, also the Poole produced stuff has the 4 digit numbers, all China stuff is in the standard Bachmann 37x-xxx style, as per the 4mm stuff

 

Jo

[Steamport Southport]

I can't remember the date but the GRAFAR name was discontinued in the late 1970s or early 1980s, and they reverted to Graham Farish.

 

 

 

Jason

[Zunnan]

Poole made models should have a 4 digit item number, and the box will have no reference to Bachmann or made in China. Kader made models have the hyphenated serial number.

 

Another thing to look out for, as there are plenty of re-boxed models out there, are the wheel profiles. Poole models as far as I recall only had a chrome finish to their pizza cutter flanges. Some of the very last models Poole made that I remember (like the class 31 and the Jinty) originally came with those chromed pizza cutters. Models made in China have always(?) had finer profile blackened wheelsets. I may be wrong and the blackened wheelsets appeared with Poole production (it will have been very late in the Poole production), but I don't remember seeing this.

[oreamnos]

Poole made models should have a 4 digit item number, and the box will have no reference to Bachmann or made in China. Kader made models have the hyphenated serial number.

 

Another thing to look out for, as there are plenty of re-boxed models out there, are the wheel profiles. Poole models as far as I recall only had a chrome finish to their pizza cutter flanges. Some of the very last models Poole made that I remember (like the class 31 and the Jinty) originally came with those chromed pizza cutters. Models made in China have always(?) had finer profile blackened wheelsets. I may be wrong and the blackened wheelsets appeared with Poole production (it will have been very late in the Poole production), but I don't remember seeing this.

 

Re: blackened wheels, I have seen a very late Poole production A3 and 8F that both had factory blackened drivers (but chrome bogie wheels!).  I myself own a very late production Poole Class 40 which has factory blackened wheels.  The wheel profiles on both the A3 and 8F I saw, and on my Class 40, are still pizza cutter shaped, however.

 

Very early (1970s) Poole boxes had gold printing.  This later shifted to yellow, and then late production (mid-1990s or so) Poole boxes added a vertical yellow stripe on either side of the clear plastic "window."  Earlier boxes did not have the stripes.

 

Poole plastic body shells for diesels were always moulded in white plastic, then painted.  This plastic is a very soft polystyrene which reacts very strongly and quickly to solvent or glue.  The plastic for Bachmann/China built diesel bodies (and some coaches and wagons) are moulded in color which is sometimes painted over and sometimes just clear coated.  The Bachmann/China polystyrene plastic is much harder (and I believe, stronger) than the Poole plastic and reacts slower with glue and solvents - I personally prefer it compared to the Poole plastic.

 

Paint application and decoration printing on the Bachmann/China built models is noticeably better than on anything that every came from Poole.

 

There are a lot of major differences (e.g., completely different chassis!) between Poole and China built mechanisms under the body shells of diesels, and even China built versions of Poole designed steam engines have detail differences in how the mechanisms are assembled. 

 

Matt

[Steamport Southport]

 

 

Very early (1970s) Poole boxes had gold printing.  This later shifted to yellow, and then late production (mid-1990s or so) Poole boxes added a vertical yellow stripe on either side of the clear plastic "window."  Earlier boxes did not have the stripes.

 

Matt

 

That would be 1980s rather than 1970s.

 

The 1970s stock was sold in the awfully garish GRAFAR packaging. Apparently they thought it looked modern.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/218769/Graham_Farish_0612grafar_U_Main_Line_Composite_Coach_in_LNER_Teak_Pre_owned_imperfect_box/StockDetail.aspx

 

https://www.hampshiremodels.co.uk/products/graham-farish-nr20m-n-gauge-lms-5-plank-wagon-165417-x3

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Grafar-N-Gauge-7915-Mere-Hall-Steam-Locomotive-in-Box/283041513223?hash=item41e696bf07:g:SNwAAOSwYF9bPghA:rk:5:pf:0

 

 

 

Jason

[oreamnos]

That would be 1980s rather than 1970s.

 

The 1970s stock was sold in the awfully garish GRAFAR packaging. Apparently they thought it looked modern.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/218769/Graham_Farish_0612grafar_U_Main_Line_Composite_Coach_in_LNER_Teak_Pre_owned_imperfect_box/StockDetail.aspx

 

https://www.hampshiremodels.co.uk/products/graham-farish-nr20m-n-gauge-lms-5-plank-wagon-165417-x3

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Grafar-N-Gauge-7915-Mere-Hall-Steam-Locomotive-in-Box/283041513223?hash=item41e696bf07:g:SNwAAOSwYF9bPghA:rk:5:pf:0

 

 

 

Jason

Neat links.  Thanks.   "Realism, Value, Quality, and Super Detail" 

 

In all seriousness, I had not realized that the "Blue Riband" branding that Bachmann has been using for the past 8 or 9 years to denote the higher specification Farish models actually dates back to Farish's 1970s packaging.  I had always thought this branding seemed a bit silly, but now that I understand the historical context and how it makes a link to "old" Farish, I actually appreciate it as an homage and a thoughtful detail on Bachmann's part.

 

I learn something every day!

 

Matt

 

[Steamport Southport]

I wish I had copies of some of the advertising from the 1970s.

 

There was one of a couple next to a Christmas tree which had "Love is..." and the bloke is holding an N gauge Bulleid Pacific like he has just been given it as a present. 

 

But I did find this website which has old N Gauge catalogues on it. Seems interesting.

 

http://www.ness-st.co.uk/N-gauge-catalogues.html

 

I totally forgot they made the GER 0-6-0T.

 

 

 

Jason

[Butler Henderson]

In all seriousness, I had not realized that the "Blue Riband" branding that Bachmann has been using for the past 8 or 9 years to denote the higher specification Farish models actually dates back to Farish's 1970s packaging.  I had always thought this branding seemed a bit silly, but now that I understand the historical context and how it makes a link to "old" Farish, I actually appreciate it as an homage and a thoughtful detail on Bachmann's part. 

Just a coincidence; Bachmann were already using the "Blue Riband" branding for their improved OO range.

 

If not contact Bachmann http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/service-request/

Edited December 21, 2018 by Butler Henderson

[CF MRC]

Intrigued to see this catalogue:

http://www.ness-st.co.uk/pdf/Farish%201980%20Catalogue.pdf

In the link further up the page. It was my old N gauge layout at my parent’s home and must have been photographed in 1978, as many of the buildings transferred to Chiltern Green by 1979.

 

Tim

[woodenhead]

It was all so simple back then, some basic designs for coaches and wagons then dab with various liveries.

 

Then remembers Bachmann Branchline still do this with 3, 5 and 7 plank mineral wagons.....

[Butler Henderson]

Then remembers Bachmann Branchline still do this with 3, 5 and 7 plank mineral wagons.....

 Bit unfair to pick on Bachmann when Dapol, Hornby and Oxford do the same.

[The Johnster]

At least Bachmann and Oxford have 16ton and 7plank mineral wagons on the correct wheelbase chassis and of the correct body size; Hornby and Dapol have yet to achieve this in 00.  I believe Dapol are still churning out some old Hornby Dublo wagon toolings!

[Steamport Southport]

Probably not as bad as some of the monstrosities in the Continental and US ranges where fictitious liveries are considered the norm.

 

 

 

Jason

[tomparryharry]

Bachmann have, to their credit continue to produce the Western 5-planker, with the number 06515.

 

Other makers do it as well. Hornby, Dapol, etc.

 

A bit disappointed with it, actually. naturally, the wallet remains shut.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

 

Edit; Now modelled as a 7 planker, but still with the same number. Must have had a refit!

 

But £20? Phew!

Edited December 21, 2018 by tomparryharry

[Steamport Southport]

Bachmann have, to their credit continue to produce the Western 5-planker, with the number 06515.

 

Other makers do it as well. Hornby, Dapol, etc.

 

A bit disappointed with it, actually. naturally, the wallet remains shut.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

 

Edit; Now modelled as a 7 planker, but still with the same number. Must have had a refit!

 

But £20? Phew!

 

It actually existed. There is a photo of it in the GWR Wagons book.

 

I always thought the Bachmann one was a correct RCH 1923 7 plank as was the old Mainline model.

 

 

Jason

[woodenhead]

 Bit unfair to pick on Bachmann when Dapol, Hornby and Oxford do the same.

 

At least Bachmann and Oxford have 16ton and 7plank mineral wagons on the correct wheelbase chassis and of the correct body size; Hornby and Dapol have yet to achieve this in 00.  I believe Dapol are still churning out some old Hornby Dublo wagon toolings!

 

i was making a humorous observation, wasn't about to start dissecting everyone's ranges.

[tomparryharry]

It actually existed. There is a photo of it in the GWR Wagons book.

 

I always thought the Bachmann one was a correct RCH 1923 7 plank as was the old Mainline model.

 

 

Jason

So it is! Thanks for the tip!

[daftbovine]

Another thing to look for is “Made in China” stamped into the plastic chassis baseplate on Bachmann/Farish steam models.

[Steven Draper]

A few tips - as if looking on eBay etc I've seen a fair number of old stuck models reboxed in the latest boxes!

Loco's Pool and Early China have solid wheels and the bogies are have tiny wheels on. Latest loco's have see through spoked wheels. Other clues DCC ready, fitted etc will be more detailed versions. 

Coaches, Mainly the BR standard coaches as things like the Staniers are all modern tooling.  - Poole, Early China - Sides looks flat, basic under frame detail. - New coaches much busier under frame and just look finer, the MK1's generally have added wire details at the ends and onto the roof. Wheels look better.

Wagons - These are hardest to tell from ebay pictures, but the range is bigger now so often its a case of just recognised the older models !!!!!! Underframe more clunky on old ones. 

[railsquid]

I can't remember the date but the GRAFAR name was discontinued in the late 1970s or early 1980s, and they reverted to Graham Farish.

 

Some China-produced locomotives have this stamped on the underside:

 

GRAFAR LTD

MADE IN CHINA

 

Bachmann-produced boxes mostly (maybe always - I don't recall seeing one without) have a date stamped on the inside somewhere, in YYMMDD format, which is presumably the date the item was boxed; certainly enough to give an idea of when it was produced (assuming the item is still in the original box).

[John M Upton]

I have a number of VBA vans that have both Grafar and Bachmann on the underside depending on their vintage.

 

Where a manufacturer has used inherited tooling sometimes it was a while for markings on the underside to be changed.

 

Some Hornby items are still produced with the oval raised area underneath where the Triang name used to be!

[rab]

Resurrecting this thread for a slightly different reason.

 

I'm trying to sort out the Poole part number for the

Farish GW single vent van (grey).

I have some I want to sell on eBay,

but would like to get the boxes and listing correct.

(I currently have single and twin vent vans

both in boxes marked 2404) 

I believe the twin vent ot be No, 2404,

but cannot find a number for the single vent

 

[Kris]

11 minutes ago, rab said:

Resurrecting this thread for a slightly different reason.

 

I'm trying to sort out the Poole part number for the

Farish GW single vent van (grey).

I have some I want to sell on eBay,

but would like to get the boxes and listing correct.

(I currently have single and twin vent vans

both in boxes marked 2404) 

I believe the twin vent ot be No, 2404,

but cannot find a number for the single vent

 

I think that the single vent was 2304.

I suspect that I have some boxed in the loft somewhere.