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Yes, it would. There’s an interesting thread ‘Coal deliveries to branch lines’ in the prototype section. Gone a bit off-piste as is usual but a lot of useful anecdotes.

 

Izzy

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57 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

 

Question though - how would a loaded P.O. coal wagon (i.e. loose) be unloaded into sacks at a siding where there was no staithe to shovel into? Surely it wouldn't be bagged in-situ?

 

I found some interesting images:

https://www.gettyimages.nl/detail/nieuwsfoto's/privately-owned-railway-wagon-1938-workers-unloading-coal-nieuwsfotos/90747028

 

https://nl.pinterest.com/pin/339881103121045221/

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrc3.htm

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

Question though - how would a loaded P.O. coal wagon (i.e. loose) be unloaded into sacks at a siding where there was no staithe to shovel into? Surely it wouldn't be bagged in-situ?

 

Coal for delivery had to be bagged and weighed. Specialist coal scales were used which incorporated arms from which the bag was suspended. The coal was loaded into the "scoop" until the balance indicated that the weight was right; the scoop was then carefully tipped so that the coal fell into the open bag.

 

S&D Models produce an excellent kit but sadly only in 7mm scale, the kit was produced from my detailed drawings.

CoalScales.jpg.c97a6b8094ad9a3c28d0ed22da980e66.jpg

Edited by bécasse
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17 hours ago, Nick Holliday said:

There were quite a few exceptions in the south east of England by Edwardian days, such as shown on this OS map, courtesy of NLS, of Bexhill West station in 1909, but seen on a number of SECR, LBSCR and GER stations. There was very little heavy industry near these stations, and the pens were generally the preserve of the local merchants.

image.jpeg.49f1618ba8853f45c61de5d9f640d59a.jpeg

Actually Bexhill West (then Bexhill SE&CR of course) makes my point well. The 1908 OS 25" map shows some large pens whose main purpose may well have been to just separate the activities of the different coal merchants and there would have been some large users of coal in the town, large shops and the hospital being obvious examples. Additionaly some of the pens, despite the "coal yards" tag, may well have served for building materials which would, like coal, have arrived by rail and would have had to be stored somewhere, and, unlike coal, building materials were stored in pens from an early date. However, the clincher is a post-war 25" OS map covering the same goods yard which not only shows that many of the early pens have been significantly subdivided but that there was a whole new area (between the areas marked cattle pens and coal yards) given over entirely to a significant number of coal pens which just didn't exist pre-war.

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Thank you all, I guess one of those tipplers as linked by @Ian Morgan is on the cards!

 

Progress trundles on with the cattle dock - it seems I've found a use for some etched bar fencing I've had for donkey's years:

 

2THqWXB.png

 

I also recieved a rather large box via DHL from germany, fingers crossed that's all my heki bits and pieces!

 

(ps. what colour should the railings on the cattle dock be? I guessed GWR dark stone but thinking about it I guess it's probably white?

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On 17 April 2020 at 14:16, bécasse said:

Historically, coal bins usually only occurred where coal was delivered and stored for an industrial user whose location was remote from the railway, although odd exceptions could be found even in the Edwardian era. The situation changed during WWII when it became important to smooth out coal production and transportation year round, and that meant that significant quantities of household coal, even with the limitations of rationing, had to be stored close to the point of final use for months on end - hence the creation of storage bins from whatever material was available at the time.

 

2 hours ago, bécasse said:

Actually Bexhill West (then Bexhill SE&CR of course) makes my point well. The 1908 OS 25" map shows some large pens whose main purpose may well have been to just separate the activities of the different coal merchants and there would have been some large users of coal in the town, large shops and the hospital being obvious examples. Additionaly some of the pens, despite the "coal yards" tag, may well have served for building materials which would, like coal, have arrived by rail and would have had to be stored somewhere, and, unlike coal, building materials were stored in pens from an early date. However, the clincher is a post-war 25" OS map covering the same goods yard which not only shows that many of the early pens have been significantly subdivided but that there was a whole new area (between the areas marked cattle pens and coal yards) given over entirely to a significant number of coal pens which just didn't exist pre-war.

I don't quite understand which of your points Bexhill makes, as there is no apparent industrial user that would require remote storage, and I can't think of many instances when that might occur, as most businesses would probably prefer to have their vital fuel sources on site, and not subject to predation in a general goods yard. Can you explain what the "clincher" is in the post (which) war map? The area you cite is already clearly delineated on the 1908 map. As an aside, there is a splendid Aerofilms view of Bexhill West yard showing the various coal pens and a variety of PO and company wagons in attendance, in the OPC book of Southern Branchlines. 

As for odd exceptions, there were dozens of such yards in the south east with coal pens, both adjacent to tracks and a bit more remote.remote, to chose from. As I have said in previous threads, I agree they become scarcer the further from London you get, and your comments might be a bit more pertinent, but their existence cannot be dismissed just because they're Londoncentric.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

Thank you all, I guess one of those tipplers as linked by @Ian Morgan is on the cards!

 

Progress trundles on with the cattle dock - it seems I've found a use for some etched bar fencing I've had for donkey's years:

 

2THqWXB.png

 

I also recieved a rather large box via DHL from germany, fingers crossed that's all my heki bits and pieces!

 

(ps. what colour should the railings on the cattle dock be? I guessed GWR dark stone but thinking about it I guess it's probably white?

 

Black.

 

From GWR Structure Colours 1912-1947, p.28: 

 

"Cattle Docks 

In the 1920s, wooden components were painted white. However, the Engineering Instructions of 1930 specified that they should be treated with solignum or creosote. Metal parts were black, as were cattle docks made of metal. In early days, cattle docks and the ground on which they stood were treated with white lime wash as a disinfectant. "

 

 

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  • RMweb Gold

Great progress William, impressive how quickly this has developed in recent weeks.  I really like the spacious feel and the overall colour scheme, a real sense of "landscape" in a limited space, I think.

 

On 08/04/2020 at 18:45, Lacathedrale said:

I was researching acrylic GWR paint, and it doesn't really seem like there's a 'known solution'. Here are my attempts:

 

#1 - Raw paints:

 

MQ4vsnd.jpg

 

The centre panel is Vallejo Sunny Skin, which I'm using for GWR Light Stone.

The right hand side is 50% Vallejo Light Brown and 50% Vallejo Red Leather - earmarked 'Dark'

The left side with more Light Brown, earmarked 'Light'

The bottom side is with more Red Leather, earmarked 'MIddle'

 

#2 - With a light grey/white filter applied, same colours:

 

p1X9Q1E.jpg

 

I have left a slice of the unfiltered colour on the right of the panel.

 

I think making the buildings more pale will help lend a 'scaled colour' effect, and so I'm erring towards 'Dark', but with the white/grey filter - but any suggestions are gladly taken.

 

I use Vallejo 860 medium flesh and 929 light brown for GWR light and dark stone, but your choices look like good options to me.

 

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I think the lorry or cart would turn up with a pile of sacks and some weighing scales it would be shoveled from the wagon into a sack checked on the scale and placed on the lorry. I have no idea how long it would take to bag up and deliver a whole wagon load more than one day I think .

 

Don

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8 hours ago, Donw said:

I think the lorry or cart would turn up with a pile of sacks and some weighing scales it would be shoveled from the wagon into a sack checked on the scale and placed on the lorry. I have no idea how long it would take to bag up and deliver a whole wagon load more than one day I think .

 

Don

 

I would think that the biggest restriction in the time to unload, would be the carrying capacity of the lorry, probably around 3 tons whereas the wagon would be 10 tons, so that is 3 or 4 trips to wherever the merchant had his yard.

 

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Thank you all! @Mikkel I will investigate medium flesh, but I think as it stands all of the buildings in GWR colours are now painted!

 

I have not yet recieved my static grass applicator, so the following scene looks like something out of an American logging layout - but do rest assured that greenery is shortly to appear.

yzJiFE7.png

 

The trees above are merely placed on the layout to get an idea of the colours and sizes, and do not represent their final positions. My broad thoughts are to affix some Woodland Scenics foliage clusters to foamboard to line the very rear of the layout, and fill forward from that point.

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I have painted the trunks of trees and hedges on a backscene then stuck woodland scenics foliage net stuff over them to produce 'low relief trees'  where there wasn't room to put proper modelled ones. 

The trees do really add to the layout.

 

Don

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  • 3 months later...

Has it really been four months? I decided (after recieving a delivery of Heki and Noch foliage products some months back) that it was time to make a start on the making the layout more south west England, and less south west Australia. Here's the result so far:

 

XtRlwY7.png

 

MYMVXSR.png

an5eRXc.png

 

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image.png.37669100057718bb6c1de8fac6adc460.png

 

Getting closer... I'll definitely need to put some foliage on the backscene in that corner to stop the shadows being cast on it. My thoughts are to use a couple of big trees in the foreground and 3-4 smaller trees behind.  Who'd have thought that teabags and coffee grounds were good for groundcover under the trees?

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Well to quote Ulysses S. Grant "Mistakes have been made" - multiple times throughout this project I've thought to myself 'oh well, that's gone awry/good enough - may as well bin the layout and start a real one' - after all, this was really only ever intended to be a quicky to see how working in 2mm was, but it has been pointed out to me numerous times there's value in bringing something to a conclusion, even if it's not perfect.  With that in mind I'd be a little reluctant to start hacking away with plywood and filler while I feel that (rightly or wrongly!) I'm close to the final furlong.

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Fair enough!  I think I would do the same. As you say, far more to be gained by pushing on than fretting about minor hindsights... The latest grouping of trees is well placed. 

Edited by FraserClarke
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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

@CF MRC that is so kind of you Tim, thank you very much - I am only on the other side of the Thameslink to where I believe you're located so could happily transport it and would gladly attempt to catch the pebble from the master's hand with regard to backscene painting - but this layout has always been a stop-gap to learn some skills and I would hate to impose on your good will for something that's ultimately quite transient and probably coming to the end of the its life-cycle. What do you think?

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