Peco N gauge setrack arcing help!

[toolongtoremember]

Hi there, I am having this issue on two peco points installed as a crossover 

 

A pair of st-5 insulfrog setrack points. 

 

 

it is continually shorting my whole layout. 

 

both points in that video were set to straight ahead, i.e. against eachother. 

 

Many thanks!

[Pete the Elaner]

Think about the rail polarity. The voltage is being supplied by the other track & the the wheel is connecting the 2 which causes the short.

I suspect this only happens when the tracks are set to run trains in the same direction, therefore making the adjacent rails opposite polarities.

Try using insulated rail joiners where the points connect to each other.

[toolongtoremember]

Think about the rail polarity. The voltage is being supplied by the other track & the the wheel is connecting the 2 which causes the short.

I suspect this only happens when the tracks are set to run trains in the same direction, therefore making the adjacent rails opposite polarities.

Try using insulated rail joiners where the points connect to each other.

My apologies, I forgot to mention the layout is DCC, would this still be the case?

[nzgresleyfan]

What you have is a situation where your wheel treads are wide enough to cause a short at the frog. One polarity is crossing the other which is fine with dead frog points such as these but as soon as you introduce a wheel to the equation; game over. If you had live frog points here then nothing would move. As the post says above, you need to have insulating rail joiners between the two sets of points, and also on the main running lines just beyond the frog. Then have it wired so that the polarity changes with the points.

 

That's the theory, don't ask me how to do it in practice. I leave it to whichever sparkie is wiring up the layout I'm working on at the time...

[nzgresleyfan]

My apologies, I forgot to mention the layout is DCC, would this still be the case?

 

Yes. You still have one polarity crossing the other whether it's analogue or DCC. I had the same problem with Zero 1 thirty years ago. DCC makes insulating rail joiners even more essential as the track is permanently live.

Edited December 23, 2018 by nzgresleyfan

[Pete the Elaner]

My apologies, I forgot to mention the layout is DCC, would this still be the case?

Absolutely the same cause.

DCC usually shuts down as soon as it detects a short. I am surprised it is not cutting power to the whole layout (assuming you are not using power districts or sub-districts).

 

Since you are using Insulfrog, this will power the frog from the point blades. If these are clean then it will not be a problem.

You will also have to insulate the other rails at the frog end or else you could feed it from the wrong end & observe the same short when you are running a train around the curved route of the point.

[Ray Von]

I had a similar problem some years ago in "OO" gauge, a Q class loco (BIG wheels) would short out when going over insulfrog points.

 

My memory is a bit hazy though, I can't remember if it was the exact same issue you are having or if the short was occurring when the engine was actually crossing over the points.

 

Anyway, I solved the problem by painting over about 1mm -maybe less- of the surface of the track that was being unintentionally made contact with.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Ray Von

[toolongtoremember]

Thank you very much, will get on that first thing in the morning! 

 

Again thank you for that! 

Absolutely the same cause.

DCC usually shuts down as soon as it detects a short. I am surprised it is not cutting power to the whole layout (assuming you are not using power districts or sub-districts).

 

Since you are using Insulfrog, this will power the frog from the point blades. If these are clean then it will not be a problem.

You will also have to insulate the other rails at the frog end or else you could feed it from the wrong end & observe the same short when you are running a train around the curved route of the point.

Might try that first though, all brilliant information!

I had a similar problem some years ago in "OO" gauge, a Q class loco (BIG wheels) would short out when going over insulfrog points.

My memory is a bit hazy though, I can't remember if it was the exact same issue you are having or if the short was occurring when the engine was actually crossing over the points.

Anyway, I solved the problem by painting over about 1mm -maybe less- of the surface of the track that was being unintentionally made contact with.

[Ray Von]

Just added a pic to my previous post.

[mjkerr]

I had a similar problem with some Dapol Class 66 models (the later DCC type) 
This was found to be due to the back to back gauge being incorrect, and after adjustment solved the issue 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Notice the video shows a train on the straight route—NOT crossing from one track to the other. This should be fine in theory and I suspect it WOULD be with DC—DCC seems to cause momentary shorts occasionally. I don't see how isolating the two circuits will help in this case. Are these the only points that have this issue? It might be worth contacting the Peco Technical Advice Bureau, though at this time of year you'll need to be patient. It is free, though.