Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie

[Hilux5972]

4 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Yes it’s in 2 weeks: Sat 25th January. Factories shut down around that time - is it a week? Some factories then struggle to get staff back at their desks afterwards.

3 weeks I believe CNY goes on for

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Yes it’s in 2 weeks: Sat 25th January. Factories shut down around that time - is it a week? Some factories then struggle to get staff back at their desks afterwards.

Interesting set of numbers here.  UK Spring this year runs from 20 March to 20 June.  The shipment time varies according to area of origin in China but from the area where most of the model factories seem to be concentrated the time at sea is c.23-25 days and one shipping agent's website suggests it is sensible to allow 6 weeks from leaving the factory to delivery to the UK destination premises - which seems to fit fairly well with other UK concerns in the past giving tracking details for the ship their models are on.

 

But counting back six weeks from Friday 20 March comes back to 07 February (or the day before the full Chinese New Year festival finishes).  So I sincerely doubt that unless the load is at sea by about the middle next week there is virtually no chance that it will be here by the beginning of spring.  Counting back from the end of spring in June would give a despatch date of the last week in April which gives the factory 11 weeks after the end of the CNY festival to get its staffing sorted, any new people fully trained, and production and packing to be completed with everything ready for despatch.

 

I suspect that unless the models are likely to be onboard ship within the next week (or are already at sea) we are unlikely to see them until sometime in May or June unless they are shipped by air.  So we could perhaps see a delivery during teh latter part of the UK's official 'Spring' .

Edited January 15, 2020 by The Stationmaster

[Harlequin]

Is production in China no longer such a good idea as it once was?

 

[Denbridge]

22 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Is production in China no longer such a good idea as it once was?

 

Well yes, unless you'd like your models to be at least double current prices, should manufacturing return to the UK

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Is production in China no longer such a good idea as it once was?

 

I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea Phil as it definitely holds down the prices we pay but it does need to deliver consistent quality - which depends on what the UK  'manufacturers' and commissioners ask and pay for of course.

 

But having said that I really do think we as end customers should expect reasonably well founded up-to-date information on progress and not be fobbed off with a load of effectively unexplained moving delay stories.  An interesting contrast is today's posts from Rails and Locomotion Models explaining what is happening with one of the versions of their Terrier - they say why a batch has been rejected and that it means remanufacture of the loco bodies and that that work will not take place before a certain date.  If Hornby had a good grasp on what is happening with the production of the prairie there is nothing to stop them doing the same instead of giving us a constantly slipping, and generally unexplained, series of dates.  As my previous post shows 'Spring' is a pretty broad subject to say the very least and delivery is almost certainly going to be affected by Chinese New Year - surely it isn't difficult to say that (if it really is the case) or, as other people do, they could say the models will be shipped before CNY.

 

Some folk might well them moan about delays but if we get a proper explanation I bet the vast majority are likely to say 'thanks for telling us and we don't mind waiting (especially if that will make sure it's going to be a tip-top model)'.  Oddly Hornby seem to be able to rapidly deliver some late announced items such as the Terrier and to show decoration sample of 2020 models while we still await 2019 models with no real information as to why they are late.  One can't help wonder at times if some production might have been pushed aside to get something else out more quickly to beat someone else to market?  Maybe that is a less than generous view but as ever poor communication, or even more so lack of communication, can cause more problems and start more rumours than simply, and publicly, saying something has been delayed because ...  ...  (with the 'because' being as important as yet another unexplained delay).

[Harlequin]

48 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Well yes, unless you'd like your models to be at least double current prices, should manufacturing return to the UK

I don't understand all the factors involved but would the costs of UK vs. Far eastern manufacturing really be so radically different now? Conditions have changed since Chinese production first became attractive.

 

When thinking about these issues should we also factor in less tangible costs like environmental damage, reputational damage caused by repeatedly pushing back release dates, costs incurred by long round-trip development cycles and loss of sales from people getting fed up waiting for models. A "Made In Britain" label would have some value.

 

I don't know how it would all stack up.

 

[Harlequin]

2 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I don't necessarily think it's a bad idea Phil as it definitely holds down the prices we pay but it does need to deliver consistent quality - which depends on what the UK  'manufacturers' and commissioners ask and pay for of course.

 

But having said that I really do think we as end customers should expect reasonably well founded up-to-date information on progress and not be fobbed off with a load of effectively unexplained moving delay stories.  An interesting contrast is today's posts from Rails and Locomotion Models explaining what is happening with one of the versions of their Terrier - they say why a batch has been rejected and that it means remanufacture of the loco bodies and that that work will not take place before a certain date.  If Hornby had a good grasp on what is happening with the production of the prairie there is nothing to stop them doing the same instead of giving us a constantly slipping, and generally unexplained, series of dates.  As my previous post shows 'Spring' is a pretty broad subject to say the very least and delivery is almost certainly going to be affected by Chinese New Year - surely it isn't difficult to say that (if it really is the case) or, as other people do, they could say the models will be shipped before CNY.

 

Some folk might well them moan about delays but if we get a proper explanation I bet the vast majority are likely to say 'thanks for telling us and we don't mind waiting (especially if that will make sure it's going to be a tip-top model)'.  Oddly Hornby seem to be able to rapidly deliver some late announced items such as the Terrier and to show decoration sample of 2020 models while we still await 2019 models with no real information as to why they are late.  One can't help wonder at times if some production might have been pushed aside to get something else out more quickly to beat someone else to market?  Maybe that is a less than generous view but as ever poor communication, or even more so lack of communication, can cause more problems and start more rumours than simply, and publicly, saying something has been delayed because ...  ...  (with the 'because' being as important as yet another unexplained delay).

Agreed that good communications is vital and the manufacturers would do well to look at the example set by Locomotion/Rails today!

 

We do seems to be a patient set of customers but inevitably, as the release dates get pushed further and further back, the proportion of customers willing to wait gets smaller. (It would be interesting to see such a graph...) And these big delays do offer an opening to competitors. That's another small point in favour of bringing manufacturing more "in house", which may or may not mean closer to the UK.

 

BTW: I was told that for the past few years there has been a worldwide shortage of an important precursor chemical for various plastics which is affecting the production of models. Don't know how big a factor this has been.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Communication is,or should be,king. One appreciates that the arms length line of communication between Sandwich and China can be daunting but a real-time update is surely as valuable as both The Signal Box and The Engine Shed ...a world in which all things are glossily lovely .....which Hornby seem to believe takes care of PR.Yes,it goes a long way for sure but it tells only part of the story as Hornby’s website predictions ( variable)  seem to indicate.

Comparisons are tricky things to make but really you only have to look at how Rails are currently handling a glitch in the delivery of their Terrier or how Hattons Dave is engaging with their 66 to see how effective openness and transparency are.ATM with Hornby confusion over delivery times conflicts with official online image where all is sunny uplands. Hornby have a great team marketing a great product .If only they would join the dots....

 

 

 

 

[gwrrob]

I'm confused too about the delay as I was told they were actually in production as of the week of November 11th. There was a query on the number of front bogie spokes by @Coppercap and @AY Mod  confirmed all was ok.

[The Johnster]

Stationmaster seems to be on the mark as he usually is about this sort of thing.  It is important to maintain the trust and confidence of your customers of course, and I have commented before about the damage delays and continually slipping lead times are doing to Bachmann's otherwise very good reputation.  Communication is easier and cheaper now in real time than at any previous period in history; I have a phone in my pocket on which I can have a face to face video conversation with someone in China now, this minute, if I want.  

 

We all know this and assume that Hornby are up to speed with what is happening on the ground 8.000 miles away where it's tomorrow already.  But, like the song says, it ain' nessiss errally so...  Hornby will be dealing with a main agent who may or may not be willing to impart information that his subcontracting factories and assembly plants may or may not be willing to impart to him, probably through a number of other people who each may or may not... you get the idea.  It is not just Chinese businessmen that play their cards close; SK is a dab hand at the game himself!  It's the way business red in toof an clore works; a smile in your face, a hand in your pocket, and a knife in your back.

 

Good reliable information is what we want, but there may be sound business reasons back down the chain not to give it to us; it's a highly competitive cuthroat jungle out there and we are a hobby largely of gentlemen to whom this is anathematic, or at least a culture shock.  Is it wise to continue production in China?  I don't know, or particularly worry, but it is a model that has served well for a good few decades providing us with a reliable supply of cheap, high quality models.  It has things about it that cause concern, though, such as Kader's Vietnam factory fire which burned down killing child labourers a few years ago.  It depends very much for it's effectiveness on 'just in time' ordering and delivering and minimising (odd word to type for some reason, doesn't look right when you're typing it) component orders, which is why you can't get spare parts, and if something misses it's tight delivery schedule in the early stages of production the knock on effect is considerable as there are no backup stores of parts or cash to acquire them.

 

Home production would probably be more expensive, but I can't believe it would be by a factor of twice, and it has an argument in it's favour in terms of shipping carbon output.  There is a current move to restrict the speed of container ships to reduce emissions, which will increase voyage times and further impact on point of sale price, so while it is still undoubtedly cheaper to source models from the Far East, the gap is continually narrowing.  But it will not happen if the cost of manufacture here equals that of Chinese supply, as investment capital must be sourced to rebuild UK factories.  China needs to be more expensive to a degree that makes this viable.  

 

Then there is the quality issue.  High quality RTR models have never been produced in the UK, and it is very easy for costs to get out of control; look what happened to Hornby Dublo.  The Chinese labour force is known to be very good at actually fabricating small parts and efficiently assembling them.  I am not convinced that UK production could afford to employ workers of the required quality or motivation; we have, sadly, become a low quality cheap labour producer of shoddy goods.   in general.

 

Containers have their own risks of course.  'Our' products are no more or less prone to being washed overboard in storms, the ship lost to storm or wreck, delayed or stolen by pirates on a route that passes through the South China Sea and the waters off Somalia, damaged, or delayed by customs or immigration officials investigating smuggling or people trafficking.  Bulk traffic is already starting to use the shorter Arctic route in summer, but it is still too risky for the fast container ships.  Traditional, pre-containerised, shipping suffered from similar issues of course, but one of 'our' containers will contain an entire order for the next 3 months or more for the whole company; if it is lost or delayed the manufacturer has to begin again from scratch, having to find a production slot in a factory before even starting to replace the lost models.  And, as his loss is indemnified at Lloyds by the shipping company, or should be, he has no monetary incentive to hurry this process; he's lost his profit, but he's not out of pocket beyond that.

 

There is I understand a weekly rail service from China to the UK now, but this is still subject to customs/immigration delays and targeted by smugglers and traffickers.  Quicker than the sea route but I assume more expensive, and so another cost implication.  And it cannot handle the quantity of containers of even one of the smaller deep sea trade container vessels, or even close!

Edited January 15, 2020 by The Johnster

[Clearwater]

I’d wager that labour costs form a far higher proportion of the Hornby’s cost than the shipping cost from China.  A single 40’ container will contain thousands of models.  Take the shipping cost and divide through and the contribution will be small (possibly in the pennies).  In contrast if the labour cost is 10% of the trade price (and I think it’s higher), then a double/tripling of that to move from chinese to uk wage levels will have a noticeable impact on trade price and hence rrp.

[The Johnster]

Chinese wages are rising, and this is no bad thing IMHO; their people work hard and deserve a good standard of living as much as we do.  Raw material, factory rental, shipping, distribution, and all sorts of other costs are continually rising for all sorts of products, and are doing so in China as well.  Unless our incomes keep pace, and they don't, always, especially our lower incomes, our standard of living inevitably falls, and this is a hobby, dependent on disposable income.  There will always be a market for model railways at any price, but it will be small niche one if matters move to their ultimate conclusion.

 

I'm lucky, in that I've bought all bar one of the locos I want and most of the stock before the price rises set in, but the future for modellers like myself on low fixed incomes is bleak.  Luckily I'll be dead before the worst of it.  It's being so cheerful as keeps me going, you know!

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I don't understand all the factors involved but would the costs of UK vs. Far eastern manufacturing really be so radically different now? Conditions have changed since Chinese production first became attractive.

 

When thinking about these issues should we also factor in less tangible costs like environmental damage, reputational damage caused by repeatedly pushing back release dates, costs incurred by long round-trip development cycles and loss of sales from people getting fed up waiting for models. A "Made In Britain" label would have some value.

 

I don't know how it would all stack up.

 

I think a lot of the incidental costs, such as transport can be ignored at the moment although the carbon cost could well assume greater significance - but that means moving a heck of a lot more manufacturing than model railways back from China.  and in any case the carbon cost of shipping is going to reduce considerably in the coming decade.  in the meanwhile, as 'Clearwater' has already said, the shipping cost per o item can be measured in pennies.

 

But whatever else happens it is the labour and process cost of manufacturing which will remain the biggest impediment to moving production.  Firstly and most obviously the wage costs here - even at minimum level - are far higher than in China but that is a long way from all of it as the overheads on top of the wages will also be much, much larger once NI costs are  added in and that's before you get to employee admin costs and all the other things which employees need such as break facilities and a far better (and more expensive) working environment than would be accepted in Chin.  Next there is the critical question of productivity particularly in relation to intricate assembly work and that is where labour costs could face another steep increase on Chinese practice.

 

We have a watch factory locally which has gradually moved from assembly of foreign made movements into British made cases towards full machining and assembly work based here.  the company are currently buildinga new factory which will allow them to both increase their workforce but also take the entire process from bare metal in house to the greatest extent they wish to go.  Ok so watches aren't model railways but the comparison overall is imilar - you can buy a pretty good quality watch for avfew hundred pounds  If you want to buy the British made equivalent their current cheapest model is £2,595 while the most expensive is £17,995.   You want British made, fair enough - but you pay for it.

[KeithMacdonald]

On 31/12/2019 at 15:45, No Decorum said:

In fairness to Hornby, “design clever” was probably a response to complaints about the ever rising cost of models. The motive was good but the execution was awful. I quite like the term. Ruptured English to describe ruptured models.

 

I concur. I've spent many lunchtimes nipping into the Hornby Hobbies outlet in the Great Western Village in Swindon, to see what might be new or on special offer. It confused me at first that the display cases of locos and DMUs are so far apart, it made it difficult to keep one model in mind while you looked at alternative models in another case. It took me a while to realise that the case nearest the front door, with the cheapest/discounted models was mostly the Railroad range. The Super Detailed models (with the higher prices) are at the back of the shop near the sales counter.

 

So, maybe, the "design clever" phase coincided with the introduction of the Railroad range, trying to offer a simpler and cheaper model to lure younger/newer people into the market? Along with the "toy" products like the Thomas The Tank Engine range, and now the Hogwarts range?

 

If I was in Hornby's Marketing Department, I'm pretty sure that's where my primary efforts would be, for sales volumes. The Super Detailed models might be the top-of-the-range elite models, but do they sell as many?

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, Clearwater said:

I’d wager that labour costs form a far higher proportion of the Hornby’s cost than the shipping cost from China.  A single 40’ container will contain thousands of models.  Take the shipping cost and divide through and the contribution will be small (possibly in the pennies).  In contrast if the labour cost is 10% of the trade price (and I think it’s higher), then a double/tripling of that to move from chinese to uk wage levels will have a noticeable impact on trade price and hence rrp.

 

Agreed. Not a lot of people realise that the cost of shipping a container (thousands of miles all the way from the Far East) to a UK port is usually less than the final stage of trucking it from a UK port to a warehouse in the UK. And that's just the final product. If manufacturing was in the UK, not only would the labour costs be higher, but so would the costs of the whole production cycle, from component and materials sourcing, inward delivery, and so on.

[railroadbill]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

I think a lot of the incidental costs, such as transport can be ignored at the moment although the carbon cost could well assume greater significance - but that means moving a heck of a lot more manufacturing than model railways back from China.  and in any case the carbon cost of shipping is going to reduce considerably in the coming decade.  in the meanwhile, as 'Clearwater' has already said, the shipping cost per o item can be measured in pennies.

 

But whatever else happens it is the labour and process cost of manufacturing which will remain the biggest impediment to moving production.  Firstly and most obviously the wage costs here - even at minimum level - are far higher than in China but that is a long way from all of it as the overheads on top of the wages will also be much, much larger once NI costs are  added in and that's before you get to employee admin costs and all the other things which employees need such as break facilities and a far better (and more expensive) working environment than would be accepted in Chin.  Next there is the critical question of productivity particularly in relation to intricate assembly work and that is where labour costs could face another steep increase on Chinese practice.

 

We have a watch factory locally which has gradually moved from assembly of foreign made movements into British made cases towards full machining and assembly work based here.  the company are currently buildinga new factory which will allow them to both increase their workforce but also take the entire process from bare metal in house to the greatest extent they wish to go.  Ok so watches aren't model railways but the comparison overall is imilar - you can buy a pretty good quality watch for avfew hundred pounds  If you want to buy the British made equivalent their current cheapest model is £2,595 while the most expensive is £17,995.   You want British made, fair enough - but you pay for it.

Additionally, model railway manufacture, especially locomotives, is very labour intensive. So is the watch movement manufacture you describe, and no doubt electronic items like phones. The videos Rapido etc. make shows this. 

One problem in this country is that only 8% of the working population is engaged in manufacturing.  80% of employment is in service industries. (One could argue that that includes arranging for model trains to be manufactured in China and imported from there).

However, there isn't an available manufacturing base (say that makes complicated toys) that could make something never made in the UK, ie very detailed high quality model railway locomotives at a cheap price.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by railroadbill

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Interesting set of numbers here.  UK Spring this year runs from 20 March to 20 June.  The shipment time varies according to area of origin in China but from the area where most of the model factories seem to be concentrated the time at sea is c.23-25 days and one shipping agent's website suggests it is sensible to allow 6 weeks from leaving the factory to delivery to the UK destination premises - which seems to fit fairly well with other UK concerns in the past giving tracking details for the ship their models are on.

 

But counting back six weeks from Friday 20 March comes back to 07 February (or the day before the full Chinese New Year festival finishes).  So I sincerely doubt that unless the load is at sea by about the middle next week there is virtually no chance that it will be here by the beginning of spring.  Counting back from the end of spring in June would give a despatch date of the last week in April which gives the factory 11 weeks after the end of the CNY festival to get its staffing sorted, any new people fully trained, and production and packing to be completed with everything ready for despatch.

 

I suspect that unless the models are likely to be onboard ship within the next week (or are already at sea) we are unlikely to see them until sometime in May or June unless they are shipped by air.  So we could perhaps see a delivery during teh latter part of the UK's official 'Spring' .

Spring in these parts starts on 1 September...

[Legend]

8 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Is production in China no longer such a good idea as it once was?

 

 

Its still very cheap despite what you hear about labour costs . Bringing production back here gets you closer to market, more control and more responsive , but cost outweighs all of these . Not coming back any time soon. 

[eldomtom2]

There is the third option of switching to a different low-wage country like India or Thailand.

[mdvle]

15 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

Yes it’s in 2 weeks: Sat 25th January. Factories shut down around that time - is it a week? Some factories then struggle to get staff back at their desks afterwards.

 

Correct, Chinese New Year is January 25th.  However, factory closures are typically 3 to 4 weeks, with start up after the holiday a slow period as they desperately hire to replace workers who don't return (either because they physically don't return or because they take the opportunity to trade up to a better job).

 

The lengthy shutdown is to allow everybody to migrate back home for the holiday, have the week long holiday, and then migrate back to where the factories are.

 

So effectively the factories will be closed from this weekend - and it also means shipping for the last week or 2 has been chaotic as many companies try to get product out of China prior to the CNY shut down.

 

Factories won't start to attempt to resume production probably until around February 10th, and production will be slow for another week or 2 after that.

 

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

So, maybe, the "design clever" phase coincided with the introduction of the Railroad range, trying to offer a simpler and cheaper model to lure younger/newer people into the market?

 

No, the Railroad range already existed.  Design clever was an attempt to tool up one model to serve both the railroad range and the regular (detailed) range and needless to say the attempting 2 things at once didn't work.

 

5 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

If I was in Hornby's Marketing Department, I'm pretty sure that's where my primary efforts would be, for sales volumes. The Super Detailed models might be the top-of-the-range elite models, but do they sell as many?

 

The "super detailed" models have the profit margins and demand such that that is where the largest profits are - which is why Bachmann, Accurascale, etc. are all chasing that end of the market.

 

This is in part because the high end of the market is very specific - for example we don't just want a class 37 but we want a class 37/6 with all the correct details for a specific livery in that era because we want to replicated a specific service.

 Which means we will pay the extra costs to get the exact model we want. 

 

On the other hand, at the other end of the range, they are happy with anything that looks like a 37 (either because they don't care, or because they intend to detail it up themselves) and are just as likely to be happy buying anything else in a livery that they like, so they are more price sensitive.

[melmerby]

2 minutes ago, mdvle said:

 

No, the Railroad range already existed.  Design clever was an attempt to tool up one model to serve both the railroad range and the regular (detailed) range and needless to say the attempting 2 things at once didn't work.

 

I would challenge that statement. Where are the Railroad and Detailed versions of the design clever models?

AFAIK Apart from the P2 which was a bit of a fudge, there was only one version of the design clever models which was supposed to be the full range product. The Crosti was always a Railroad.

 

IMHO it was an attempt to reduce costs without hopefully reducing the sales/desirability of a model.

It failed because most of the design clever was a step back from the quality which Hornby had been producing up to then and the punters didn't like it.

[mdvle]

6 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I would challenge that statement. Where are the Railroad and Detailed versions of the design clever models?

AFAIK Apart from the P2 which was a bit of a fudge, there was only one version of the design clever models which was supposed to be the full range product. The Crosti was always a Railroad.

 

The backlash from potential customers was so severe that it was abandoned prior to being fully implemented.

[mdvle]

12 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Is production in China no longer such a good idea as it once was?

 

No idea whether the correspendence is true or not - no specific reason to doubt it but it is a indirect quote.

 

Little Loco Company (working in the O market) was working on bringing production to the UK for their Class 22, and for an unrelated reason ran into financial problems.  A recent email from the owner was reposted on Monday, but the following quote from it may help answer your question:

 

"My greatest mistake was to try to bring back model production to the UK, and I’m not lost on the irony that the two companies I chose to produce the moulded parts decided to tool in China!"

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/145214-llc-update-from-steve/&do=findComment&comment=3800427

 

10 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I don't understand all the factors involved but would the costs of UK vs. Far eastern manufacturing really be so radically different now? Conditions have changed since Chinese production first became attractive.

 

Have costs changed in China?  Yes.  However the minimum wage is still $289 / month or so, still well below the western world - and it is doubtful that either in China or here if an attempt was made that you get could away with minimum wage for what is a very skilled job.

 

Quote

When thinking about these issues should we also factor in less tangible costs like environmental damage,

 

Don't think people would want to go there, as the end result would likely be killing off the hobby.

 

Having said that, the carbon emissions at the end of this article where a person went Hamburg to Vancouver by ship and train instead of plane for environmental reasons are enlightening:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2020/jan/07/cargo-ship-train-rail-to-vancouver-canada-low-carbon-travel-europe

 

Needless to say shipping by boat isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

Quote

reputational damage caused by repeatedly pushing back release dates, costs incurred by long round-trip development cycles and loss of sales from people getting fed up waiting for models. A "Made In Britain" label would have some value.

 

It's easy to blame China, but I doubt moving production to the UK/US would eliminate many of the problems.  They may be quicker to solve in some cases due to distance, but there are likely to still be issues.

 

Quote

Home production would probably be more expensive, but I can't believe it would be by a factor of twice, and it has an argument in it's favour in terms of shipping carbon output.

 

Rapido Trains has, if I recall correctly, claimed somewhere around 10 hours of labour for a model.  At the minimum wage (set for April 2020 at £8.72) that means your UK built model has cost £87.20

 

Then, does anyone want to guess how much you would actually have to pay someone to do a quality job?  It appears the average salary is just about twice as much as the Real Living Wage, so lets be optimistic and say you can get away with only a 33% premium to get quality workers.  So now you are paying £11.60 an hour, and your model has cost £116.

 

And you haven't yet paid the employer portion of NI, Pension, cost of facilities, vacation pay, sick pay, maternity, insurance, cost of raw materials, environmental disposal costs, etc.

 

How about margins for retailers, plus your profit margin, etc?

 

Oh, and no tooling costs paid yet either.  Anyone want to guess how much it would cost to tool something in the UK?  I mean, it is expensive in "cheap" China so...

 

What's that, everyone wants the model for £100?  Oops.  Far more likely £500 or more.

 

So yes, China is still the only really viable option (eastern Europe is out as the EU wants to implement and EU minimum wage to deal with the discrepancies).

 

[edit]

 

Another way to look at costs - the UK minimum wage will be £8.72 / hour.

 

Take the Chinese $289, convert to £222 / month, or say (using 40 hours/week/ 52 weeks/ divided 12 to get 173 hours/month) to get £1.28 / hour wage in China.

 

I suspect my estimates of a model cost are way off and are cheaper than it would be in reality.

Edited January 16, 2020 by mdvle

[melmerby]

9 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

The backlash from potential customers was so severe that it was abandoned prior to being fully implemented.

On what evidence do you base that statement?