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Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie


Andy Y
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10 hours ago, brushman47544 said:


Did you have to reserve two seats if your hat was over a certain size?


Never mind the hat, think of a carriage with a few ladies and their bussells- huge flowing dresses. By this time, dresses had become a little slimmer, but even so, I bet it was a squeeze at times!

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On 25/06/2020 at 12:46, The Stationmaster said:

Although oddly the LMS 2-6-4Ts right through from the Fowler design to the end and the successor Standard 2-6-4T had half a ton less bunker capacity than the GWR large prairies (except for the second 3100 series which had the same coal capacity as the LMS and BR Standard 2-6-4Ts).   Even more remarkably all these 2-6-4Ts had 4cwt less coal capacity than the GWR 4575 series 'small' prairies.  And the 2-6-4Ts had the same water capacity as the GWR large prairies.

 

As a couple of us have said before the GWR running and operating depts were clearly happy with what the large prairies could do so, apart from a bit of detail updating, why bother to branch out into making something that cost more but would seemingly have not offered any obvious advantages?  Similarly if it had been able to be designed what advantage would the Western have obtained from an = Class 5 tank engine?  Well where there are comparative loads available the answer, depending on gradient, is no greater than a difference of something way less than a coach extra to a coach and a vanfit extra while on the more level routes there'd be no difference at all.  Oh, and don't forget that the two Western classes in the  =Class 5 load stakes both had a No 1 boiler - which would have made a pretty hefty tank engine (more likely a 4-6-4T than a 2-6-4T).

The other advantage of an extra pair of carrying wheels is of course axle loading. Clearly the GW had no need to reduce their own, so 2.6.2t's were perfectly suitable. No railway would go to the expense of adding anything extra unless it was totally necessary.

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Did receive my one on Saturday, Although have had to send it back due to some paint issues annoyingly. (Although will be getting a replacement)

 

Compared to the other Large Prairie i have, which has of course seen better days (apart from being heavily used and 16+ so years old), it is by miles a better improvement though and look forward for the replacement to come.

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Anyone know of a supplier of bunker steps to add to these? Looking to model 4144 in preserved condition. To work from the R3721 version, will need a new safety valve bonnet so hopefully easy to remove. Thanks in advance.

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25 minutes ago, Chris89 said:

Did receive my one on Saturday, Although have had to send it back due to some paint issues annoyingly. (Although will be getting a replacement)

 

Compared to the other Large Prairie i have, which has of course seen better days (apart from being heavily used and 16+ so years old), it is by miles a better improvement though and look forward for the replacement to come.

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Could you show us these paint issues please? Be good to know what to look out for. Those photos look pretty flawless to me. No glaringly obvious issues

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Hi Chris89

 

It's hard to tell from your pics if the black marks are a smear of something that would come off or damage to the paint, I presume the latter?

 

Cheers

 

here is an enlargement of the damage to your model, apart from that and the mark or damage on the left side lower front buffer beam it is a stunning model. Very tempted to buy one to go with my BR black version (yet to arrive here in NZ).

 

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6 hours ago, robmcg said:

Hi Chris89

 

It's hard to tell from your pics if the black marks are a smear of something that would come off or damage to the paint, I presume the latter?

 

Cheers

 

here is an enlargement of the damage to your model, apart from that and the mark or damage on the left side lower front buffer beam it is a stunning model. Very tempted to buy one to go with my BR black version (yet to arrive here in NZ).

 

IMG_5834.jpg.db8fbabfc3d47d758aaf88e3bd570266_1a_r540.jpg.1e6a15e91f5c1bba096aa757421f8b7c.jpg

 

As far as can tell it is paint damage sadly. I agree it really is a stunning model, a vast improvement to the rather old one i have to. (Would have gone for the BR Black one, but had to match it with the old model) Will post better photo's when new one comes of course to.

 

6 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Oh yep that tank side one is definitely noticeable. Hopefully this isn’t a recurring issue. 

 

Hopefully it isn't so, Apart from that it is a stunning model, especially when compared to the old one.

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I just received my 6110 in the post. Joy turned to abject disappointment very quickly.

 

The front running plate is twisted due to being jammed into the packaging incorrectly and consequently one of the stay rods is very badly bent.

 

IMG_20200630_131320.jpg.51eae975026a74d14ee39d15c0036bec.jpg

 

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Needless to say, it's going straight back whence it came. :sad_mini:

 

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5 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Such a shame. Is the stay the only damage or has the actual running plate been damaged as well? 

Yes, it really is!

I'm not even going to take it out of the packaging to inspect any further because I don't expect to have to bend parts of a brand new loco back into shape. Even if I did I would be staring at the front end for ever more wondering if it's really straight or not!

The retailer has arranged a replacement.

 

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Another victim of packaging distortion following on from Bachmann’s bubble car trailing wheels out of set last week.That’s a truly horrible mess on the front of the Prairie though. Wheels can be clipped back without damage but that’s another matter. What appalling luck.

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I had a couple of relatively minor issues with my BR black version - a small accessory part was loose in the box when unpacked (easily refitted) - but potentially more of a problem, one of the screws retaining the driver's side coupling road unscrewed it self after about 40 minutes running - luckily I managed  to find it trackside  and refit it  - I will be checking the coupling rods regularly from now on.

 

Petrox

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The body securing screws and decoder pocket screw into the chassis were quite loose on my BR black version - not an issue in my case as the body was going to come off for decoder fitment anyway, and certainly preferable to them being tight enough to risk rounding them out when removing them, but worth being aware of.

 

The chassis layout is pretty well thought out. I had a Zimo MX649N going spare and took a gamble on there being enough space for it to be fitted using an 8 pin to 6 pin adapter. It was too long for the pocket in the smokebox, but there was plenty of space down one side of the motor, and although it looks like a very flat speaker will be needed for the bunker, an ordinary sugar cube fitted just fine towards the bufferbeam (it can't go further forward due to the slope of the coal space towards the cab).

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9 hours ago, Harlequin said:

I just received my 6110 in the post. Joy turned to abject disappointment very quickly.

 

The front running plate is twisted due to being jammed into the packaging incorrectly and consequently one of the stay rods is very badly bent.

 

IMG_20200630_131320.jpg.51eae975026a74d14ee39d15c0036bec.jpg

 

444316644_IMG_20200630_131335r.jpg.c653745e8145df3e7ca0d7bfc5940c78.jpg

 

Needless to say, it's going straight back whence it came. :sad_mini:

 

 

A real shame, and reminds me of the awful mess which Heljan 47XXs suffered recently, well two years ago.  It was such a widespread issue that instead of returnig it from NZ to the UK I fixed it. One stay bar was only found a month later, in the glued-up fold of the box.

 

I think the warping of your 61XX is beyond repair, bad luck indeed.

 

Img_1727a_r1200.jpg.2700689b43893778b4c9e3bae7971150.jpg

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On a brighter note, which may be of interest to antipodean buyers, I just received my BR black 61XX from Kernow just 11 days after purchase, in NZ.  This is about as good as it gets! Some UK-NZ packages have been taking 11 weeks.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, robmcg said:

On a brighter note, which may be of interest to antipodean buyers, I just received my BR black 61XX from Kernow just 11 days after purchase, in NZ.  This is about as good as it gets! Some UK-NZ packages have been taking 11 weeks.

 

 

 

Good to hear so, Hope the model is all fine as well to. I know the posting times have been stupid since do the post office as well at my local coop, One thing my mum sent to the USA on 1st of April arrived last week.

 

Also Mine is now on it's way back to Rails of Sheffield to.

 

 

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Got my 6110 today - Thanks to Derails, excellent service as usual.

First impressions

Finish

Very good, nicely applied decoration, no issues with transit damage. Nothing distorted or missing.

 

Chassis

A little bit on the light side IMHO, plenty of room for some extra ballast though as the space in the tanks isn't totally filled as on it's predecessor.

The motor looks a little on the small side and not as "quality" looking as some full range Hornby motors but it is a 5 pole type.

I noticed that the flywheel has been balanced, nice touch.

There was only a small amount of wobble on the driving wheels, hardly noticeable.

Getting a Lenz Standard + V2 decoder into the provided slot was a bit of a struggle as due to it's length (25mm) part needs to be in the smokebox above the front fixing screw

 

Performance

A little bit jerky on DC straight out of the box, slightly faster in reverse than forward, didn't like running on my rollers, however much better running on my test track but still a bit jerky at slow speed. Seemed to be a bit on the fast side!

 

Fitted a Lenz Standard + V2 decoder and tested using the speed profiler with TrainController.

It is fast, much too fast! The scale speed was 123mph in reverse, 110mph forward. But it is a very smooth runner on DCC with no sign of the jerkiness on DC and a very slow crawl speed possible.

 

Conclusion

A very good effort but not quite a 10/10 maybe an 8 or 9

 

IMHO More weight is needed, no need for all that empty space, also needs lower gearing and maybe(?) a larger motor.

 

 

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I can live with having to provide extra ballast, but if the loco cannot run smoothly at low speed and start/stop in DCZ without jerkiness, I would score it much lower, and an excessively high top speed from inadequate gear reduction would lead to a further lowering of my score as it further impinges on low speed performance!

 

Could I perhaps prevail upon you to test the loco in a few month’s time on DC to see if running in improves matters?  Lowspeed running is important to me. 


 

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22 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I can live with having to provide extra ballast, but if the loco cannot run smoothly at low speed and start/stop in DCZ without jerkiness, I would score it much lower, and an excessively high top speed from inadequate gear reduction would lead to a further lowering of my score as it further impinges on low speed performance!

 

Could I perhaps prevail upon you to test the loco in a few month’s time on DC to see if running in improves matters?  Lowspeed running is important to me. 


 

I would expect it to run a lot better when run in. I find that a decent decoder tends to mask below par off load performance when the loco is new

 

I did find that the contact wipers were not at the optimum as both sides only made contact together when the wheelsets were centrally aligned, moving one way or other they lost contact at the extremes.

Tweaked that a bit so might be better now. There was also a little residue on the wheels, that may have contributed.

I find you can usually make an out of the box loco run better with some little tweaks.

 

One of the tank vents has now come off but is not broken, seems to have been short of adhesive, the other is firmly affixed.

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Hi Keith

 

Thank you for posting such an informative summary.
 

I imagine you will be making some CV adjustments. If so I would be interested to know what you finally settled on and in particular how the loco performed at lower speed steps.

 

I was intending to fit a Zimo (MX617) plus some form of SA. I suspect there will not be enough room for a full fat Supercap and I will have to settle for a few tantulum?


I only just saw your second post......dirty wheels and faulty pick ups wouldnt help......it so annoys me when this happens,all too often, on new locos.

 

Thanks again for posting....enjoy your new loco

 

John

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