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Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie


Andy Y
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38 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I'm always amused by comments that the green is too light or too dark.

What is being used as a reference?


Are you referring to my post above ...or others ? You will note that I used the word “finish “ and  do not refer to colour. Modellers have their own views on locomotive liveries . If it pleases me I will choose it .If it doesn’t,I won’t. In that process the choice is quite naturally my own for which no reference is necessary .If it’s ok in my judgement,then fine.If not,then otherwise. My decision.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I suspect the priority is getting the orders posted out rather than photographing for those who might buy one depending on which green Hornby has chosen this time :)

 
I’m sure you’re correct.However,at this pivotal moment in the ongoing saga of Covid-19,it is important to be presented with as accurate an image of a model out of the box because a visit to a retail outlet is but a vague dream for most.Hence as they say we eat with our eyes,so we buy our models with hopefully accurate online imaging .Hornby’s own digital offerings on their website  haven’t always represented what will necessarily appear from the box.Thus excuse a degree of caution on my part until a photo of a real model appears ...preferably here...or on another website.

 

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2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:


Are you referring to my post above ...or others ? You will note that I used the word “finish “ and  do not refer to colour. Modellers have their own views on locomotive liveries . If it pleases me I will choose it .If it doesn’t,I won’t. In that process the choice is quite naturally my own for which no reference is necessary .If it’s ok in my judgement,then fine.If not,then otherwise. My decision.

 

 

I was commenting on Black 5 Bear's comment about whether it will be too light or too dark.

I was wondering compared to what?

 

As someone who can remember BR green, a definitive shade would be difficult as they varied in real life, especially depending where they were painted.

I always remember ex GWR paintshop jobs always looked brighter/richer than ex LMS paintshop jobs using what was supposed to be the same BS colour.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
I’m sure you’re correct.However,at this pivotal moment in the ongoing saga of Covid-19,it is important to be presented with as accurate an image of a model out of the box because a visit to a retail outlet is but a vague dream for most.Hence as they say we eat with our eyes,so we buy our models with hopefully accurate online imaging .Hornby’s own digital offerings on their website  haven’t always represented what will necessarily appear from the box.Thus excuse a degree of caution on my part until a photo of a real model appears ...preferably here...or on another website.

 

I’m with you entirely and am in the same dilemma re the forthcoming 46257 but I do wonder what with this being the most popular livery variant the retailers may be at or close to selling out on pre orders hence no urgency to photograph and advertise. Or maybe photographing the actual model might not be conducive to more sales! 

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4 hours ago, melmerby said:

I'm always amused by comments that the green is too light or too dark.

What is being used as a reference?

 

In my case an entirely subjective one; does it look like the sort of green you'd expect when viewed in a reasonably well-lit room where you might expect to find the model. A lot of model "GWR greens" are too insipid. Some are too "dark" in the sense that they look almost like a green black. Somewhere between those would do me.

 

In terms of paints I find Precision and Railmatch "GWR later green" OK; the Railmatch is slightly darker and that's what I use, although I wouldn't really want it any darker. Thought the Prairie was verging on too dark but acceptable.

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15 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

It would be helpful if images other than those directly copied from the official Hornby website were available to see as at least from my point of view the finish is crucial.Sorry for the reference that dare not speak its name but this is where Rails imaging is sorely missed. Need a proper job somebody please not just the Hornby one.

 
  Thanks in anticipation.

It usually takes a day or 2 for them to upload their own photos. 

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It's really tough, as I'm only just finding out. For example, I've just gone and taken some shots of the loco, brought them onto the PC and toned down the rather "over-excited" lighting we use and then held the model up to the screen....and it's completely different, the photo is far too light. I tried again, same lighting but this time no editing, and again, it is completely different. Changed more parameters and still I could not get a match. I then compared the model to the Hornby shot and those of other retailers and in my personal opinion, none of them really match the exact shade! 

 

This is where it gets tough, and I give my apologies but I'm not going to upload the photos I took as I don't want to prejudice anyone with a photograph that doesn't best represent the colour of model which is the main discussion point here at the moment. :)

 

But then again, unfortunately I'm a 1970's modeller so I can't pass an educated comment on how it looks....unless it's blue.......(in the distance, I hear sirens coming for me....) 

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1 minute ago, Derails Models said:

It's really tough, as I'm only just finding out. For example, I've just gone and taken some shots of the loco, brought them onto the PC and toned down the rather "over-excited" lighting we use and then held the model up to the screen....and it's completely different, the photo is far too light. I tried again, different lighting but this time no editing, and again, it is completely different. I then compared the model to the Hornby shot and those of other retailers and in my personal opinion, none of them really match the exact shade! 

 

This is where it gets tough, and I give my apologies but I'm not going to upload the photos I took as I don't want to prejudice anyone with a photograph that doesn't represent the model, which I think looks awesome and runs very well. :-) 

 

But then again, unfortunately I'm a 1970's modeller so I can't pass an educated comment on how it looks....unless it's blue.......(in the distance, I hear sirens coming for me....) 

But which blue?

IMG_2400.JPG

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23 minutes ago, Derails Models said:

It's really tough, as I'm only just finding out. For example, I've just gone and taken some shots of the loco, brought them onto the PC and toned down the rather "over-excited" lighting we use and then held the model up to the screen....and it's completely different, the photo is far too light. I tried again, same lighting but this time no editing, and again, it is completely different. Changed more parameters and still I could not get a match. I then compared the model to the Hornby shot and those of other retailers and in my personal opinion, none of them really match the exact shade! 

 

This is where it gets tough, and I give my apologies but I'm not going to upload the photos I took as I don't want to prejudice anyone with a photograph that doesn't best represent the colour of model which is the main discussion point here at the moment. :)

 

But then again, unfortunately I'm a 1970's modeller so I can't pass an educated comment on how it looks....unless it's blue.......(in the distance, I hear sirens coming for me....) 

It is an almost unavoidable problem with model photography unless you have all the necessary gear to make sure your image gets the exact colour rendition of the model.   But you then post it online and everybody looks at it on their own 'puters and handheld devices (various) and all of those devices have their own colour settings which will render the colour you photographed in their own way with all sorts of potential minor variations.  Then chuck in your own colour vision, plus the matter of how do you scale the perception of colour and even if it's absolutely right it you might perceive it as wrong.

 

Usually Kernow take their own photos although I believe that Hornby put out an edict some while back stating that shops had to use Hornby official views - which seems not to have stuck so maybe it was withdrawn?).  Anyway the four views on KMRC's site appear not to be Hornby views and the green looks pretty good to my eyes on my 'puter.  However I then come back to 'Melmerby's question about 'which green?' plus 'when?' because on cleaned engines the colour began to change in traffic due to effect of what they were cleaned with and as far as Western engines were concerned was it Swindon's approach to painting or was it Caerphilly's (far, far, better job)?   As I see the Kernow images I think the green is ok and the lining looks pretty good too.

 

Oh, and it hasn't got a shedplate - assuming those are Kernow images

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/61874/R3725-Hornby-GWR-Class-5101-2-6-2T-Large-Prairie-4160

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8 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

It is an almost unavoidable problem with model photography unless you have all the necessary gear to make sure your image gets the exact colour rendition of the model.   But you then post it online and everybody looks at it on their own 'puters and handheld devices (various) and all of those devices have their own colour settings which will render the colour you photographed in their own way with all sorts of potential minor variations.  Then chuck in your own colour vision, plus the matter of how do you scale the perception of colour and even if it's absolutely right it you might perceive it as wrong.

 

snip 

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/61874/R3725-Hornby-GWR-Class-5101-2-6-2T-Large-Prairie-4160


Absolutely correct, if you’re going to argue over a correct shade, you need to be using calibrated screens particularly as the shades get closer to each other. The Kernow images in that link I’m pretty sure are Hornby, as the same images appear in Hattons current ad

https://www.hattons.co.uk/430654/hornby_r3725_class_5101_large_prairie_2_6_2t_4160_in_br_lined_green_with_late_crest/stockdetail.aspx

 

If I can blag one from a friend I’ll see if I can get some images later.

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3 minutes ago, PMP said:


Absolutely correct, if you’re going to argue over a correct shade, you need to be using calibrated screens particularly as the shades get closer to each other. The Kernow images in that link I’m pretty sure are Hornby, as the same images appear in Hattons current ad

https://www.hattons.co.uk/430654/hornby_r3725_class_5101_large_prairie_2_6_2t_4160_in_br_lined_green_with_late_crest/stockdetail.aspx

 

If I can blag one from a friend I’ll see if I can get some images later.

Thanks for that PMP - so they are indeed Hornby.  Now I wonder what of, pre-prod sample or production run.?

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3 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Thanks for that PMP - so they are indeed Hornby.  Now I wonder what of, pre-prod sample or production run.?


And it’s this very quandary that causes me to be sceptical of what I see from Hornby.Thus far,all online images are a direct copy.

 

Hence Mike my bringing the issue for an airing. I hope that the “official “ images are a true likeness. I am thus far not holding my breath.Again the issue is not shade but one of finish.I would like not to have that same dull flat colour that has bedevilled many of Hornby’s recent releases.

 

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Ideally a photo of it alongside other BR green locos is what is needed; I've always taken Bachmanns to be pretty accurate - of course how different it may be can be disguised by weathering to the appropriate extent, which reminds me I really need to something drastic with my blue green Rebuilt West Country. Hattons, Kernow and Hereford usually take their own photos - when Hattons do it is evident by the fact in the series of photos their is one or two of the box as well.

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47 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:


And it’s this very quandary that causes me to be sceptical of what I see from Hornby.Thus far,all online images are a direct copy.

 

Hence Mike my bringing the issue for an airing. I hope that the “official “ images are a true likeness. I am thus far not holding my breath.Again the issue is not shade but one of finish.I would like not to have that same dull flat colour that has bedevilled many of Hornby’s recent releases.

 

 
Actually,I do believe that I have indeed found images that are not Hornby direct. Olivia’s Trains....an unlikely place I grant you......appears to have a collection noticeably different from the official ones......i e......taken from different angles. The very good news is that the finish does indeed near match the Hornby website images. Mike’s reference to the lack of shedcode caused me to pause at another earlier post here which also mentions the same feature..hence Olivia ‘s Trains. 

 

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57 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

I could be wrong, but RAL 6020 is pretty damn close. 

 

I reckon some manufacturers deliberately 'mess it up' to create a talking point. Star bogies, anyone?

 

Have a great weekend, folks,

Ian. 

Judging by the way a certain well-known 'public face' of Hornby reacted to it being suggested they'd got the bogie wheels wrong on the 'Star' I don't think it happened for that reason.  Definitely came over as more like a c*ck up (followed by denial) than 'a talking point' ;) 

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I merely used the Star as an example. 

 

Publicity is publicity. Especially, if it's a non-damaging publicity. 

 

Probably easier to pass by, with an advancing male population...

 

"What colour is that?

 

"Custard.

 

I like mustard on pork pies....

 

Yes, that nice Mr Hilter is on the telly tonight. He shows up well on 405 lines....

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17 hours ago, melmerby said:

I always remember ex GWR paintshop jobs always looked brighter/richer than ex LMS paintshop jobs using what was supposed to be the same BS colour.


Indeed, and the recent green on ex-GWR locos has been flat and lifeless, irrespective of the actual colour. My personal preference is the BR green used by Hornby on its recent rebuilt BB R3468 603 Squadron.

 

3 hours ago, Tim Hall said:

But which blue?

IMG_2400.JPG


Not the Dapol D63xx for sure. To my eye in that photo the Kernow D600 looks closest to what I visualise.

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4 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Ideally a photo of it alongside other BR green locos is what is needed

Hmm.  You'd think so, but the way the hooman eye works and the hooman brane interprets the information means that a large 'block' of colour on something big such as a locomotive viewed from within 100yds range will look brighter than the exact same colour with the exact same finish in the exact same lighting on a model unless the model is viewed from within abut 3 inches.  I believe it was David Jenkinson who pointed this out in regard to LMS crimson lake livery in MRC many years ago; he'd got some enamel paint mixed to the exact specification as provided by Derby works, used it on a model, and realised that it looked completely wrong, and David Jenkinson was someone who knew what crimson lake was supposed to look like.  

 

There is a point beyond which attempting to pin exact colours down even with calibrated camera and monitor settings on professional grade equipment, unless your hooman eye is calibrated in the exact same format.  My view is that that close enough for jazz is fine and I am happy to repaint locos or stock to my own specifications, especially unlined ones, and to weather them as well, until I get the look I want.  I do not subscribe to the view that 'this should not be necessary on a £xxx model' and while I accept that it will affect the resale value of my stock I do not buy models to resell them, though I will give them away to good homes.  I am not trying to state a fact that such a view is wrong, merely that I do not subscribe to it!  RTR models are very good indeed these days but I can improve them; nothing on Cwmdimbath is as it came out of the box, and all have been worked up in some way even if it is only a light wash of weathering.  It is a model of a working railway, not a model of a railway museum.

 

That said, of course I want my RTR to be as accurate as possible, including the colour, but I'm certainly not going to criticise Hornby's new prairie in this respect; the liveries look fine to me.  If I were to comment it would be that some of the brass plumbing is a bit prominent and needs toning down or replacing with real brass which will tarnish naturally over time.

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4 hours ago, brushman47544 said:


Indeed, and the recent green on ex-GWR locos has been flat and lifeless, irrespective of the actual colour. My personal preference is the BR green used by Hornby on its recent rebuilt BB R3468 603 Squadron.

 


Not the Dapol D63xx for sure. To my eye in that photo the Kernow D600 looks closest to what I visualise.

I've since repainted the 63xx, cos it stood out like the proverbial sore thumb. It's actually a Silver Fox D600, that I sold when the Kernow one came out (it's quite an old photograph). 

 

But we'd better stop, as we're off topic here :)

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