Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie

[colin penfold]

16 minutes ago, teaky said:

Green looks better.

 

Just needs a tender now.

 

Are you a closet Swindon Town fan?

[Hilux5972]

50 minutes ago, teaky said:

Green looks better.

 

Just needs a tender now.

Hornby announced 9351? How did I miss that!!!!

[tomparryharry]

Piggybank.... Check.

 

Large hammer selection.... Check.

 

Good to go here, I think I'll be using the 20 ounce ball pein.... 

 

Ian.

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Seen in a cabinet at GETS and due to arrive sometime next month the GWR version was on show. BR versions to follow after.

I have to say I approve of the half open cab roof vent and the way the top feed pipes dive down those holes in the tank tops.  In more familiar grumpy old b*stard mode, yet again an RTR manufacturer has deliberately prevented us from modelling anything but a loco fresh off shed with a bunker full of coal...

 

Why can’t we have empty bunkers and tenders?  

[phil-b259]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I have to say I approve of the half open cab roof vent and the way the top feed pipes dive down those holes in the tank tops.  In more familiar grumpy old b*stard mode, yet again an RTR manufacturer has deliberately prevented us from modelling anything but a loco fresh off shed with a bunker full of coal...

 

Why can’t we have empty bunkers and tenders?  

 

Because increasing volumes of modellers are demanding sound fitted locos.

 

This requires space for a speaker - on tank engines space is at a premium so the coal bunker is usually the only suitable spot. the bunker then cannot be modelled accurately and a 'lid' of moulded coal has to be employed.

 

On tender locos room is only really available for speaker in the tender - which means the decoder goes in there too. While the resulting components are not as high as the Ringfield motor drives seen in the days of old, in most cases they are too high to permit a coal less tender to be modelled.

 

On some of Hornby's super detailed locos that were produced before sound took off, the decoder was shoehorned into the loco body meaning the tender had nothing more than a low profile balance weight in it and consequently could be produced with a full depth empty coal space.

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by phil-b259

[Hilux5972]

6 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I have to say I approve of the half open cab roof vent and the way the top feed pipes dive down those holes in the tank tops.  In more familiar grumpy old b*stard mode, yet again an RTR manufacturer has deliberately prevented us from modelling anything but a loco fresh off shed with a bunker full of coal...

 

Why can’t we have empty bunkers and tenders?  

The coal load can be removed. 

[Miss Prism]

13 hours ago, gwrrob said:

Seen in a cabinet at GETS and due to arrive sometime next month

 

Thanks Rob. Hopefully the ones arriving next month will have some brakes.

 

For that 1942-47 'G W R' era, does anyone have a prototype pic showing whether the route indicator is placed above or below the numberplate?  (I suspect the answer is either!)

 

 

[gwrrob]

9 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

 

For that 1942-47 'G W R' era, does anyone have a prototype pic showing whether the route indicator is placed above or below the numberplate?  (I suspect the answer is either!)

 

 

 

There are plenty of preserved examples to check with. The one at Didcot has it above. On page 69 in The Prairie Papers is 4148 at Cardiff in the Hornby livery with RD above the number plate.

Edited October 14, 2019 by gwrrob
info.

[The Johnster]

9 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

The coal load can be removed. 

I'll take that as a consolation prize and be content, then!  It'll at least be better than the Bachmann 45xx and 4575 in this respect; on these locos the coal is integral with the real lamp bracket shield plate, and very difficult to remove properly.

 

Phil's point about speakers is a good one, and I hadn't considered it, being a DC Luddite.  I'd prefer to see sound effects delivered by stereo headphones, where the volume can be upped as much as you want and the sound quality much better, but I suspect I'm very much in a minority on this!

[tomparryharry]

I use stereo headphones as well. However, always a difficult bit trying to synchronise  a couple of 56xx, and Hotel California.....

[Miss Prism]

2 hours ago, gwrrob said:

There are plenty of preserved examples to check with. The one at Didcot has it above. On page 69 in The Prairie Papers is 4148 at Cardiff in the Hornby livery with RD above the number plate.

 

Thanks. 4148 is probably what Hornby is copying. Of the preserved examples (which all have bunker steps of course), 4141, 5164, 6106 don't have a route indicator, 4144 is below the numberplate, and 4160 is ridiculously too high.

 

[The Johnster]

20 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

The coal load can be removed. 

I'll take that as a consolation prize and be content, then!  It'll at least be better than the Bachmann 45xx and 4575 in this respect; on these locos the coal is integral with the real lamp bracket shield plate, and very difficult to remove properly.

 

Phil's point about speakers is a good one, and I hadn't considered it, being a DC Luddite.  I'd prefer to see sound effects delivered by stereo headphones, where the volume can be upped as much as you want and the sound quality much better, but I suspect I'm very much in a minority on this!

 

4145 was supplied new to Tondu in this livery and remained at the shed until April 1948, just within my period, so I may well be interested in this model sometime next year, but the Baccy 94xx must take priority.  By that time the Dapol version might be available to compare with, though I have doubts that this particular model will ever actually materialise...

[Hilux5972]

I agree about the Dapol one, although they say they are pushing ahead. The mogul was announced at the same time and that’s now at first EP. Their prairie hasn’t even gotten past the CAD stage. 

[melmerby]

On 14/10/2019 at 06:53, Miss Prism said:

 

 

 

For that 1942-47 'G W R' era, does anyone have a prototype pic showing whether the route indicator is placed above or below the numberplate?  (I suspect the answer is either!)

 

 

I wonder why so many model GWR locos get the "G W R" livery treatment when it was one of the shortest periods for a particular livery.

Being mainly wartime meant that many appeared not to get it for the first few years anyway.

Edited October 15, 2019 by melmerby

[Miss Prism]

I think the appeal of 'G W R' was that it was the last GWR livery, and a welcome change from the seemingly unpopular shirtbutton. (For most of wartime though, it was often difficult to discern whether many locos had any 'livery' at all.)

 

None of the post-1934 liveries lasted long:

 

shirtbutton - approx 8 years

'G W R' - approx 5 years

 'British Railways' (either Egyptian or Grotesque) - approx 1 year

early BR crest - approx 6 years

late BR crest - approx 8 years

 

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

I think the appeal of 'G W R' was that it was the last GWR livery, and a welcome change from the seemingly unpopular shirtbutton. (For most of wartime though, it was often difficult to discern whether many locos had any 'livery' at all.)

 

None of the post-1934 liveries lasted long:

 

shirtbutton - approx 8 years

'G W R' - approx 5 years

 'British Railways' (either Egyptian or Grotesque) - approx 1 year

early BR crest - approx 6 years

late BR crest - approx 8 years

 

I prefer the "GREAT WESTERN" livery on tanks as I model the 1930s and there were still plenty of second string locos carrying it at the outbreak of war* but many of the big manufacturers tend to churn out loads of GWR as a preference.

 

* in one of my books there is a nice picture of outside framed 4-4-0 "Guinevere" in clean condition with "GREAT WESTERN" on the tender in 1939.

[tomparryharry]

Perhaps it's me, but I quite like the shirtbutton emblem. That said, the 'Great Western' emblem looks just as good. The rebuilt Taff Vale A's & 04's all seem to have carried Great Western on the tank sides, so it's fine with me. 

 

Ian.

 

 

 

[David Stannard]

9 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Perhaps it's me, but I quite like the shirtbutton emblem. That said, the 'Great Western' emblem looks just as good. The rebuilt Taff Vale A's & 04's all seem to have carried Great Western on the tank sides, so it's fine with me. 

 

Ian.

 

 

 

 

I'm quite partial to the shirtbutton logo, it has more of a uniqueness to it compared to the other logos, I model between 1938 to 1939 so my fleet has either the Great Western or shirtbutton logo on them.

 

[melmerby]

55 minutes ago, David Stannard said:

 

I'm quite partial to the shirtbutton logo, it has more of a uniqueness to it compared to the other logos,

 

I think it goes well on tank engines, especially the smaller ones where there is less room for insignia but it can look a bit lost on a large tender.

[Steamport Southport]

2 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I think it goes well on tank engines, especially the smaller ones where there is less room for insignia but it can look a bit lost on a large tender.

 

It did look a bit strange when they put a large GWR roundel on 3802 for the war weekend. It was to cover over the BR crest.

 

I can't find a photo though.

 

 

 

Jason

[gwrrob]

2 hours ago, melmerby said:

I prefer the "GREAT WESTERN" livery on tanks as I model the 1930s and there were still plenty of second string locos carrying it at the outbreak of war* but many of the big manufacturers tend to churn out loads of GWR as a preference.

 

 

I'm the other way and prefer the GWR livery as it suits my modelling period. I'm also looking forward to the Bachmann pannier coming out in wartime black GWR.

[The Johnster]

 

4 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

I think the appeal of 'G W R' was that it was the last GWR livery, and a welcome change from the seemingly unpopular shirtbutton. (For most of wartime though, it was often difficult to discern whether many locos had any 'livery' at all.)

 

None of the post-1934 liveries lasted long:

 

shirtbutton - approx 8 years

'G W R' - approx 5 years

 'British Railways' (either Egyptian or Grotesque) - approx 1 year

early BR crest - approx 6 years

late BR crest - approx 8 years

 

But all of these liveries actually lasted much longer in service than that; your dates show the periods when they were being applied to new and overhauled locos that were being repainted.  Caerphilly Works applied a Grotesque G W R initials during the 1942-5 austerity period on both unlined green and unlined black locos, which lasted until the early 50s.  Many locos were withdrawn in the 60s without ever having carried the later 'ferret and dartboard' BR crest.  An even shorter period of livery application was  the 2 years 1956-8 when lined green was applied with the unicycling lion to locos that would previously have carried unlined black BR livery, but the very early BR liveries were much shorter lived; Egyptian Serif lettering from 1/1/48-31/5/48, and BR standard liveries with Gill Sans lettering 1/6/48-31/3/49, following which the unicycling lion was used.  All of these liveries could still be seen on locos in service under increasing levels of muck up to several years later.

 

Examples of locos in 1942-7 G W R initials livery could be found in service as late as 1965, and of course attracted photographic attention, but I am not able to state that these are livery survivals as opposed to later applications of BR liveries having worn off exposing the GW livery beneath.  Older liveries were painted over rather than the finish being taken back to bare metal and re-primed, especially in the late 40s and early 50s when primer was at a premium (sorry) and in short supply.

 

My personal favourite is the pre-1934 'GREAT WESTERN' Egyptian Serif, but it is well outside my period; G W R initials is well inside it!  The variety of liveries available is one of the reason for choosing this period, hence my favourite is the early 1948 BR livery, which is the pre-1934 livery with 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' instead of 'GREAT WESTERN'.  As yet I have been unable to find a suitable candidate for my Tondu based loco stud and Rule 1 may have to be employed...

 

Bringing things back on topic, this livery was applied to 4159, delivered new to Barry shed in early 1948. 4159 would certainly have visited Tondu, but penetration into the hinterland branches represented by Cwmdimbath would have been less likely.

[truffy]

5 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

the seemingly unpopular shirtbutton.

Not wishing to go too far OT, or start an argument with a lady, but I rather like the shirt button roundel. It has character.

[The Johnster]

1 hour ago, gwrrob said:

 

I'm the other way and prefer the GWR livery as it suits my modelling period. I'm also looking forward to the Bachmann pannier coming out in wartime black GWR.

Conversion of Bachmann 8750 to 6750, actually 6762.  Simple enough conversion, even for my sausagefingered bodgery; remove vac pipes and bags to represent 6750 (which you probably don't need to do), remove body from chassis, prise cab glazing out with small screwdriver, spray body acrylic Halfords matt black, allow to overspray buffer beams in anticipation of weathering or repaint in red to taste, apply HMRS transfers for G W R initials, buffer beam numbers, and route availability/power indicator spot, numberplates from Modelmaster, and final coat spray matt varnish.  Glue cab glazing back in, and refit body to chassis.  Pour a scotch to celebrate and... enjoy!

 

6762 was built new 1944 and given this austerity black livery,  Allocated new to Tondu and remained there, probably in this livery, until transferred to Swansea Upper Bank in 1954.  I've indicated early BR ownership with red backed number plates (MM can supply them to order like this); this was done at the sheds, but she doesn't have a smokebox number or BR shedcode plate.  This loco is repainted from a pre-1934 liveried green example; choose a GW model unless you want the moulded smokebox number plate and shedcode plate.

 

No need to wait for the Bachmann to come out!!!

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by The Johnster
Idiot attached wrong photo...

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

But all of these liveries actually lasted much longer in service than that;

 

Yes of course. I didn't feel I needed to explain that.