Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie

[GWR8700]

Hornby-prairie-safety-valve.jpg

 

Lovely tall safety valve cover, Hornby.

 

There's only one slight problem.

 

It's not the one you want.

The artwork shows the shorter safety valve so hopefully this error has been picked up by Hornby.

[Islesy]

And no doubt Hornby will be monitoring this thread for constructive appraisal such as this..in the spirit of what my namesake in post 17 above calls ‘ A professional approach by the greater community ‘.

 

 

Constructive appraisal and feedback, in my opinion Ian, warrants communication via DM with examples and sources. An exchange of dialogue such that we have enjoyed in the past.

[MatthewCarty]

From the first few picture, it was the cylinder cut out for the leading pony that immediately jumped out to me. Dapol had at least on the mogul managed to find a way around this.

Compare Hornby's https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/new-for-2019/br-class-61xx-large-prairie-2-6-2t-6145-era-4.html with Dapol's https://digest.Dapol.co.uk/forum/main-forum/steam-aa/gwr-mogul-4300-class/7818-63xx-mogul-project-managers-blog

Edited January 7, 2019 by MatthewCarty

[Miss Prism]

The artwork shows the shorter safety valve so hopefully this error has been picked up by Hornby.

 

I do not know which of the CAD or the EP Hornby regards as their current reference.

[Ian Hargrave]

Constructive appraisal and feedback, in my opinion Ian, warrants communication via DM with examples and sources. An exchange of dialogue such that we have enjoyed in the past.

Apologies,I had completely forgotten your post on the matter elsewhere.You are quite right.I will now withdraw the post

[The Stationmaster]

I do not know which of the CAD or the EP Hornby regards as their current reference.

 

Never ever take EPs as a conclusive guide - they are simply a reflection of development at the time they were produced and things can have moved on since then.  It also depends very much on what they produced for such as checking the mechanism fits the body or something else very different from checking various items of detail.  And don't forget too that a pale coloured unpainted EP can often be misleading because of reflections etc.

 

Usually the most current version of the CAD - provided you know it is the most current version - is the best guide but sometimes even CADs can be misleading depending on the angle from which they are viewed (the proper software for handling them allows viewing from many different angles).

[Nile]

The chassis block visible under the boiler front looks odd to me, surely they could have avoided that?

[Chuffer Davies]

It's nice to see Hornby go back to the drawing board with some of the older elements of it's range including those that they inherited, I'm happy to see them give the Large Prairie a makeover as they really needed to get rid of the moulded shovel and other parts of the old Airfix model, that said I will probably wait until Dapol releases their version to make up my mind as to which way to go, I eagerly await Miss Prism's review of this model.

For me the biggest disappointment is that this is yet another instance of the identical class of Large Prairie. Would it have been just as feasible for either Dapol or Hornby to model the larger and earlier 31xx and/or its derivatives with the standard 4 boiler? This loco was first built in 1908 and therefore would be suitable for a wider time period than the later 51xx with is standard 2 boiler. In this way the two manufacturers would not be in such direct competition with each other.

 

It just feels like a missed opportunity to me.

 

Frank

[Darwinian]

Good to see with and without bunker side steps. Hope there will be a no cab-side shutters version for pre-mid 30s.

[Clearwater]

I note the number sequence has some gaps between R3719 and R3725 - at 20,22 and 24. Will they likely fill in the series with other livery variants?

[The Stationmaster]

For me the biggest disappointment is that this is yet another instance of the identical class of Large Prairie. Would it have been just as feasible for either Dapol or Hornby to model the larger and earlier 31xx and/or its derivatives with the standard 4 boiler? This loco was first built in 1908 and therefore would be suitable for a wider time period than the later 51xx with is standard 2 boiler. In this way the two manufacturers would not be in such direct competition with each other.

 

It just feels like a missed opportunity to me.

 

Frank

 

I'm somewhat confused by that comment.  Firstly why on earth shouldn't  Hornby got for the largest part and operationally longest lived similar classes in the GWR's large prairie fleet.  Surely that would be the logical choice for maximum number of available liveries and to model engines that worked over a good chunk of the former GWR network; looking at it objectively for a company ;looking to maximise sales, make best use of their R&D team and get back to profitability it would have been daft to do anything different.

 

As far as what was essentially the late comer from Dapol is concerned it is not exactly easy from looking at the CAD view they showed to work out what particular series of large prairie it was meant to represent with a 3150 cab roof and numerous errors.  Maybe, if they continue their project, Dapol will adjust it to represent a different variant although I think they'll be just as likely to drop it seeing how far ahead Hornby are.

[Fenway Park]

May have to purchase 6145 as I have the number plate from this loco. Also saw the real thing at Southall shed.

 

Will speak to Derails tomorrow.

[The Johnster]

For me the biggest disappointment is that this is yet another instance of the identical class of Large Prairie. Would it have been just as feasible for either Dapol or Hornby to model the larger and earlier 31xx and/or its derivatives with the standard 4 boiler? This loco was first built in 1908 and therefore would be suitable for a wider time period than the later 51xx with is standard 2 boiler. In this way the two manufacturers would not be in such direct competition with each other.

 

It just feels like a missed opportunity to me.

 

Frank

 

I sort of agree with this sentiment, but the 3150/5101/61xx variant is by far the most numerous and widely geographically spread of the large prairies.  There are other variants, but the Churchward 31xx mentioned with the no.4 boiler was not a large class, and the Collett 81xx, 5'3" driving wheels and a 61xx high pressure no.2 boiler, and 'prairia ultima', the Collett 31xx, also with 5'3" driving wheels and a no. 4 boiler, both classes of 10 members each.  It is possible that more of these might have been built instead of the later 41xx series of 5101s, but the war and Collett's retirement put paid to that.

 

And a large prairie to modern standards is long overdue; really, it was always going to be this version whoever produced it!  Wonder if Dapol might be interested in having a go at the 81xx or Collett 31xx, though...

Edited January 8, 2019 by The Johnster

[Ozexpatriate]

I sent a message to Paul Isles about the liveries of the different variations of the large prairie.  He has responded and he is happy for me to put this information on the forum;

R3719 is G W R (plain green)

R3721 is GREAT  WESTERN (plain green)

R3723 is Early Emblem BR (plain black)

R3725 is Late Emblem BR (Lined Green)

Fabulous. Thanks for asking that question. It's nice to know there is a firm plan. It answered my first question when looking at the initial posting. Hornby often drops the ball in describing which Great Western livery they are planning to make in their initial collateral. When they encourage pre-orders, this is an important detail.

 

Interesting choice to produce the large Prairie with Collett "GREAT WESTERN" and Hawksworth liveries and offer new coaches with the shirt button.

[Neal Ball]

Fabulous. Thanks for asking that question. It's nice to know there is a firm plan. It answered my first question when looking at the initial posting. Hornby often drops the ball in describing which Great Western livery they are planning to make in their initial collateral. When they encourage pre-orders, this is an important detail.

 

Interesting choice to produce the large Prairie with Collett "GREAT WESTERN" and Hawksworth liveries and offer new coaches with the shirt button.

 

 

Indeed an odd choice - but with the gaps in the R37xx series above, it looks as if one of the missing numbers will be the GWR roundel

[The Fatadder]

Interesting choice to produce the large Prairie with Collett "GREAT WESTERN" and Hawksworth liveries and offer new coaches with the shirt button.

You could say it’s a clever choice given one coach livery that would be seen with both loco liveries

[Steamport Southport]

I think most of the 51XX and 61XX were built with GREAT WESTERN from new. Add in the war and it's doubtful that many received the roundel.

 

Probably just 6160 - 6169 and 4100 - 4139 with a handful of repaints.

 

           1929-30    (5101 - 5110, 5150 - 5159)to lot number 257,
           1930-31    (5160 - 5189) to lot number 259,
           1931         (6100 - 6129) to lot number 269,
           1932-33    (6130 - 6159) to lot number 278,
           1934         (5190 - 5199) to lot number 284,
           1935         (6160 - 6169) to lot number 291,
           1935-36    (4100 - 4119) to lot number 292,
           1936-37    (4120 - 4129) to lot number 313,
           1938-39    (3100 - 3104) to lot number 319,
           1938-39    (8100 - 8109) to lot number 320,
           1939         (4130 - 4139) to lot number 323.
           1946         (4140 - 4149) to lot number 335,
           1947         (4150 - 4159) to lot number 361,
           1948-49     (4160 - 4179) to lot number 369,

 

Info taken from http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_262.htm

 

 

Jason

[Chuffed 1]

Well done Hornby! We can but hope they get the details right and that thoughts will be turning towards a Manor!

 

Any idea when they will be available?

Edited January 8, 2019 by Chuffed 1

[Fenway Park]

Dropped into Derails today to pre order 6145.

It was a hive of activity with the phone going constantly.

Also ordered the Ruston version of the 48DS to act as distillery/bottling plant shutter. Will have to save for the next J36.

 

Bachmann next week so will return if there is anything of interest.

[Edwardian]

How easy, I wonder, might it be to hack a 3150 out of one of these, as this is the only Large Prairie of any use to me.  Different boiler. Could the chassis at least be used?

[gwrrob]

Well done Hornby! We can but hope they get the details right and that thoughts will be turning towards a Manor!

 

Any idea when they will be available?

 

The OP states due July 2019.

[john dew]

Well done Hornby! We can but hope they get the details right and that thoughts will be turning towards a Manor!

 

Any idea when they will be available?

 

Perhaps Bachmann will surprise us with a Manor in their announcements?

[BenL]

Hornby-prairie-safety-valve.jpg

 

Lovely tall safety valve cover, Hornby.

 

There's only one slight problem.

 

It's not the one you want.

 

5101-5110 and 5150-59 had tall safety valve bonnets according to this very helpful page: http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-prairies.html

 

So maybe Hornby are tooling-up to cater for that variation too? I certainly hope so as I think it's what I need for St. Blazey's 5158 in 1947! Although I guess there's a chance bonnets were swapped around so that the aforementioned 5101s might have ended up with short bonnets at some points in their lives?

[Miss Prism]

How easy, I wonder, might it be to hack a 3150 out of one of these, as this is the only Large Prairie of any use to me.  Different boiler. Could the chassis at least be used?

 

The chassis is probably the only thing that could be used.

[Miss Prism]

So maybe Hornby are tooling-up to cater for that variation too? I certainly hope so as I think it's what I need for St. Blazey's 5158 in 1947! Although I guess there's a chance bonnets were swapped around so that the aforementioned 5101s might have ended up with short bonnets at some points in their lives?

 

As Hornby's EP shows, they could do a tall safety valve version, but the number of prototypes so fitted was small, so maybe Hornby has decided against the option. (Arguably, Hornby has more fundamental feature options to address.) Given the large number of standard 2 boilers in the pool, it is surprising that more 5101 engines didn't appear with tall valves, and I get the impression from pics the boilers being selected from the pool on works visits kept to the style initially fitted.

 

The standard 2 for the 61xx was a special, ringfenced for that class, having a nickel-steel firebox.