Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie

[Harlequin]

Perhaps Bachmann will surprise us with a Manor in their announcements?

Judging by the way these things seem to work, Bachmann will announce a Mogul...

[Edwardian]

The chassis is probably the only thing that could be used.

 

Mu suspicion, thanks for the confirmation.  Mind you, a 3D printed resin body might be an interesting and minimally painful way to get 3 or 4 of these for the South Devon banks. Hmm ...

[The Johnster]

Judging by the way these things seem to work, Bachmann will announce a Mogul...

 

Don't worry, it'll take at least a decade to get to the market...

[The Johnster]

As Hornby's EP shows, they could do a tall safety valve version, but the number of prototypes so fitted was small, so maybe Hornby has decided against the option. (Arguably, Hornby has more fundamental feature options to address.) Given the large number of standard 2 boilers in the pool, it is surprising that more 5101 engines didn't appear with tall valves, and I get the impression from pics the boilers being selected from the pool on works visits kept to the style initially fitted.

 

The standard 2 for the 61xx was a special, ringfenced for that class, having a nickel-steel firebox.

 

And rated to a higher pressure, as were the boilers for the 81xx series.

[The Stationmaster]

 

The standard 2 for the 61xx was a special, ringfenced for that class, having a nickel-steel firebox.

 

However in later years, if not previously, 61XX boilers did find their way onto other larger prairies.  Presumably when 61XX were scrapped there were some good boilers available so Swindon used them but it might even be that spares had been used prior to that - needsa search of the boiler records to find out when the practice started but there is definitely a 41XX in preservation which had been withdrawn carrying a 61XX boiler.

[The Johnster]

AFAIK there was no visual difference to indicate that a higher pressed 61xx boiler had been fitted to a 5101, but presumably the pressure gauge was a give away once you were inside the cab.  This would also presumably have increased the T. E. of such locomotives to 61xx equivalent.  Wonder if it happened the other way around, lower pressed no.2 boilers on 61xx, or how about 61xx boilers on 56xx; probably not, the mountings would have been different wouldn't they.  

 

Just thinking aloud, if you can think aloud in print format...

[mdvle]

  Maybe, if they continue their project, Dapol will adjust it to represent a different variant although I think they'll be just as likely to drop it seeing how far ahead Hornby are.

 

Dapol posted the following to Facebook a couple of hours ago:

 

 

Dapol are aware that another OO Gauge model of the Large Prairie 2-6-2 locomotive is coming to the market place.  We consider competition to be good for the hobby and look forward to rising to the challenge.  The Dapol design team are creating a product that will stand the test against the competition in terms of quality, fidelity and the technology enclosed within providing unparalleled features and benefits.

[The Johnster]

That, muy compadres, is the sound of a gauntlet being picked up!  Dap have their work cut out; the CAD they showed us wasn't that good, and Hornby have proved themselves to be capable of very high standards over the last few years.  Good luck to both sides; the winner is likely to be whoever is first to market, and unless the second place is a very significantly better loco, it'll be doomed.  Dooooooommed, I tells ya!

[Penrhos1920]

I think most of the 51XX and 61XX were built with GREAT WESTERN from new. Add in the war and it's doubtful that many received the roundel.

 

Probably just 6160 - 6169 and 4100 - 4139 with a handful of repaints.

 

           1929-30    (5101 - 5110, 5150 - 5159)to lot number 257,

           1930-31    (5160 - 5189) to lot number 259,

           1931         (6100 - 6129) to lot number 269,

           1932-33    (6130 - 6159) to lot number 278,

           1934         (5190 - 5199) to lot number 284,

           1935         (6160 - 6169) to lot number 291,

           1935-36    (4100 - 4119) to lot number 292,

           1936-37    (4120 - 4129) to lot number 313,

           1938-39    (3100 - 3104) to lot number 319,

           1938-39    (8100 - 8109) to lot number 320,

           1939         (4130 - 4139) to lot number 323.

           1946         (4140 - 4149) to lot number 335,

           1947         (4150 - 4159) to lot number 361,

           1948-49     (4160 - 4179) to lot number 369,

 

Info taken from http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_262.htm

 

 

Jason

But how many were built with cabside shutters and recessed lamp iron on the bunker? These were later additions, so GREAT WESTERN livery isn't correct for the Hornby product.

[Steamport Southport]

But how many were built with cabside shutters and recessed lamp iron on the bunker? These were later additions, so GREAT WESTERN livery isn't correct for the Hornby product.

 

But did they get a repaint when they were fitted? I would have thought that doubtful.

 

Besides isn't the Hornby product just a 3D print and not the final product? I don't think the GWR version will have smokebox number plates either. One of the CADs doesn't have bunker steps for example.

 

If you've got concerns now is the time to tell them. As we don't want another "Splashergate".

 

 

Jason

[melmoth]

However in later years, if not previously, 61XX boilers did find their way onto other larger prairies.  Presumably when 61XX were scrapped there were some good boilers available so Swindon used them but it might even be that spares had been used prior to that - needsa search of the boiler records to find out when the practice started but there is definitely a 41XX in preservation which had been withdrawn carrying a 61XX boiler.

 

Might that be 4160, which apparently has a different/better superheater than other preserved examples?

[57xx]

Good to see with and without bunker side steps. Hope there will be a no cab-side shutters version for pre-mid 30s.

 

The cab shutters were one of the first things I noticed. Given both the CAD and EP have the no bunker step version with the cab shutters on, I think you may be disappointed.

[Steamport Southport]

The cab shutters were one of the first things I noticed. Given both the CAD and EP have the no bunker step version with the cab shutters on, I think you may be disappointed.

 

Ask Islesy.

 

He did say he will respond to sensible questions by PM in the Announcement thread.

 

 

Personally I've got enough Large Prairies. But I'll probably buy one anyway.

 

 

 

Jason

[Hal Nail]

That, muy compadres, is the sound of a gauntlet being picked up!

Very similar wording to that being used elsewhere where duplicates have been announced - I wonder who was developing it (the press release) first?!

 

Edited since replies

Edited January 10, 2019 by Hal Nail

[The Johnster]

Hard to say.  Hornby look as though they were out of the blocks as leaders, but that is only an observation based on the readiness of their prairie for market.  Dap announced last year, but have had a setback as a result of taking advice from Miss Prism, and they've had to have a bit of a rethink; H may yet have to do the same in the light of some of our comments, so the race is too close to call for now!

[Steamport Southport]

Very similar wording to that being used elsewhere where duplicates have been announced - I wonder who was developing it first?

 

Probably at a similar time.

 

We saw photos of the vacuum pipe with a hint from Hornby that they were measuring one, and not long after Dapol announced their version with the CADs.

 

 

 

Jason

[tomparryharry]

That, muy compadres, is the sound of a gauntlet being picked up!  Dap have their work cut out; the CAD they showed us wasn't that good, and Hornby have proved themselves to be capable of very high standards over the last few years.  Good luck to both sides; the winner is likely to be whoever is first to market, and unless the second place is a very significantly better loco, it'll be doomed.  Dooooooommed, I tells ya!

Interesting point Johnster. But, I reckon Hornby have done a favour to Dapol. In situations like this, the pressure can come right off, and gives a breather to the developers. If they had a 'lesser' CAD before, now they can concentrate on making a 3150, or a earlier 31xx.

 

At this rate, I'll have a couple more, no problem. That, of course, if the model in question comes up to muster.

 

Lots of bankers at Severn Tunnel Junction....

 

Ian.

[Steamport Southport]

Interesting point Johnster. But, I reckon Hornby have done a favour to Dapol. In situations like this, the pressure can come right off, and gives a breather to the developers. If they had a 'lesser' CAD before, now they can concentrate on making a 3150, or a earlier 31xx.

 

At this rate, I'll have a couple more, no problem. That, of course, if the model in question comes up to muster.

 

Lots of bankers at Severn Tunnel Junction....

 

Ian.

 

Blimey. If they are struggling to get details correct for 5101s then I wouldn't go near the earlier Churchward designs or their rebuilds. That really is a minefield.

 

 

Jason

[Steamport Southport]

But did they get a repaint when they were fitted? I would have thought that doubtful.

 

Besides isn't the Hornby product just a 3D print and not the final product? I don't think the GWR version will have smokebox number plates either. One of the CADs doesn't have bunker steps for example.

 

If you've got concerns now is the time to tell them. As we don't want another "Splashergate".

 

 

Jason

 

Answered the question when looking at the Finney kit. Hornby seem to have it right.

 

Cab shutters: 5190-99, 6110-69 & 4100-79 were so fitted when new. The earlier engines received shutters from 1933 onwards.

 

Bunkers: 5101-5110 came out with a recessed fender above the bunker top only, whilst Nos. 5150 onwards had the upper half of the bunker extension recessed to match, as per the kit. 

 

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/gwr_41xx_51xx_61xx_2-6-2t.htm

 

 

 

Jason

[tomparryharry]

Blimey. If they are struggling to get details correct for 5101s then I wouldn't go near the earlier Churchward designs or their rebuilds. That really is a minefield.

 

 

Jason

Hello Jason. It's a minefield for a lot of others as well. Sometimes standing back might well prove to be a correct, although nominally illogical approach. Whatever the next make is, we can be sure that it'll be leaps & bounds better than our old Airfix ancestor.

 

I think we just need to sit back and await events. Anyway, your wallet should be the final arbiter in this case.

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[The Johnster]

Interesting point Johnster. But, I reckon Hornby have done a favour to Dapol. In situations like this, the pressure can come right off, and gives a breather to the developers. If they had a 'lesser' CAD before, now they can concentrate on making a 3150, or a earlier 31xx.

 

At this rate, I'll have a couple more, no problem. That, of course, if the model in question comes up to muster.

 

Lots of bankers at Severn Tunnel Junction....

 

Ian.

 

I'd find it hard to resist a Collett 31xx; 3100 was at Tondu for the Porthcawl-Cardiff commuter job.  

[Derails Models]

Not as good as Andy's pictures over on page 1, but we thought you might like to see these anyway. Taken at the Hornby preview event in Margate yesterday.

 

51xx Front by Derails Models, on Flickr

 

51xx Cab side by Derails Models, on Flickr

 

51xx Rear by Derails Models, on Flickr

 

51xx Smokebox by Derails Models, on Flickr

[Hilux5972]

Very nice details. Looking forward to this for sure!

[tomparryharry]

I've just noticed that the tank top oiling reservoir is either missing, or not included, depending on year,build, or era. Would anyone please set me straight?

 

We had them on the (real) 56xx)

 

Cheers,

 

Ian.

[The Johnster]

I'm sure it'll be included on the production model, Ian.

 

Difficult to say because of the colour of the plastic against that background in the photos, but the flare on the chimney cab looks a bit weak and insipid to me.  Apart from those points; it looks a lot like a large prairie, and I'm going to find one very hard to resist for Cwmdimbath.  There were several 5101s at Tondu, but in my period only 4145 for a few months at the beginning of 1948 and 4144 (a loco I remember well at Severn Tunnel in the early 60s and which I rode behind on one occasion on the car ferry) at the end of 1958, so I don't even have to invoke Rule 1!  But priority for funds must go to the Baccy 94xx and I won't be so keen as to pre-order, unlike the coaches.