Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie

[Derails Models 1,347]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

It would be helpful if images other than those directly copied from the official Hornby website were available to see as at least from my point of view the finish is crucial.Sorry for the reference that dare not speak its name but this is where Rails imaging is sorely missed. Need a proper job somebody please not just the Hornby one.

 
  Thanks in anticipation.

 

I don't have my photo backdrop with me today, but if no-one else has posted one by tomorrow morning, I'll get a photo up here for you Ian :-)

[melmerby 14,289]

I'm always amused by comments that the green is too light or too dark.

What is being used as a reference?

[MikeParkin65 1,158]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

It would be helpful if images other than those directly copied from the official Hornby website were available to see as at least from my point of view the finish is crucial.Sorry for the reference that dare not speak its name but this is where Rails imaging is sorely missed. Need a proper job somebody please not just the Hornby one.

 
  Thanks in anticipation.

I suspect the priority is getting the orders posted out rather than photographing for those who might buy one depending on which green Hornby has chosen this time 

[Ian Hargrave 5,424]

38 minutes ago, melmerby said:

I'm always amused by comments that the green is too light or too dark.

What is being used as a reference?

Are you referring to my post above ...or others ? You will note that I used the word “finish “ and  do not refer to colour. Modellers have their own views on locomotive liveries . If it pleases me I will choose it .If it doesn’t,I won’t. In that process the choice is quite naturally my own for which no reference is necessary .If it’s ok in my judgement,then fine.If not,then otherwise. My decision.

 

 

[Ian Hargrave 5,424]

15 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I suspect the priority is getting the orders posted out rather than photographing for those who might buy one depending on which green Hornby has chosen this time 

 
I’m sure you’re correct.However,at this pivotal moment in the ongoing saga of Covid-19,it is important to be presented with as accurate an image of a model out of the box because a visit to a retail outlet is but a vague dream for most.Hence as they say we eat with our eyes,so we buy our models with hopefully accurate online imaging .Hornby’s own digital offerings on their website  haven’t always represented what will necessarily appear from the box.Thus excuse a degree of caution on my part until a photo of a real model appears ...preferably here...or on another website.

 

[melmerby 14,289]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Are you referring to my post above ...or others ? You will note that I used the word “finish “ and  do not refer to colour. Modellers have their own views on locomotive liveries . If it pleases me I will choose it .If it doesn’t,I won’t. In that process the choice is quite naturally my own for which no reference is necessary .If it’s ok in my judgement,then fine.If not,then otherwise. My decision.

 

 

I was commenting on Black 5 Bear's comment about whether it will be too light or too dark.

I was wondering compared to what?

 

As someone who can remember BR green, a definitive shade would be difficult as they varied in real life, especially depending where they were painted.

I always remember ex GWR paintshop jobs always looked brighter/richer than ex LMS paintshop jobs using what was supposed to be the same BS colour.

 

 

[Black 5 Bear 565]

3 hours ago, melmerby said:

I'm always amused by comments that the green is too light or too dark.

What is being used as a reference?

It was very much a "tongue in cheek" post on my part relating to the recent deliberations voiced on RMweb regarding Hornby BG and nothing more.

[MikeParkin65 1,158]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
I’m sure you’re correct.However,at this pivotal moment in the ongoing saga of Covid-19,it is important to be presented with as accurate an image of a model out of the box because a visit to a retail outlet is but a vague dream for most.Hence as they say we eat with our eyes,so we buy our models with hopefully accurate online imaging .Hornby’s own digital offerings on their website  haven’t always represented what will necessarily appear from the box.Thus excuse a degree of caution on my part until a photo of a real model appears ...preferably here...or on another website.

 

I’m with you entirely and am in the same dilemma re the forthcoming 46257 but I do wonder what with this being the most popular livery variant the retailers may be at or close to selling out on pre orders hence no urgency to photograph and advertise. Or maybe photographing the actual model might not be conducive to more sales! 

[NCB 1,199]

4 hours ago, melmerby said:

I'm always amused by comments that the green is too light or too dark.

What is being used as a reference?

 

In my case an entirely subjective one; does it look like the sort of green you'd expect when viewed in a reasonably well-lit room where you might expect to find the model. A lot of model "GWR greens" are too insipid. Some are too "dark" in the sense that they look almost like a green black. Somewhere between those would do me.

 

In terms of paints I find Precision and Railmatch "GWR later green" OK; the Railmatch is slightly darker and that's what I use, although I wouldn't really want it any darker. Thought the Prairie was verging on too dark but acceptable.

Edited September 11, 2020 by NCB

[9402 Fredrick 197]

So I was right about 4160 not having a shed code as I just looked at Olivia Trains' page for the model.

[Hilux5972 2,524]

15 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

It would be helpful if images other than those directly copied from the official Hornby website were available to see as at least from my point of view the finish is crucial.Sorry for the reference that dare not speak its name but this is where Rails imaging is sorely missed. Need a proper job somebody please not just the Hornby one.

 
  Thanks in anticipation.

It usually takes a day or 2 for them to upload their own photos. 

[Derails Models 1,347]

It's really tough, as I'm only just finding out. For example, I've just gone and taken some shots of the loco, brought them onto the PC and toned down the rather "over-excited" lighting we use and then held the model up to the screen....and it's completely different, the photo is far too light. I tried again, same lighting but this time no editing, and again, it is completely different. Changed more parameters and still I could not get a match. I then compared the model to the Hornby shot and those of other retailers and in my personal opinion, none of them really match the exact shade! 

 

This is where it gets tough, and I give my apologies but I'm not going to upload the photos I took as I don't want to prejudice anyone with a photograph that doesn't best represent the colour of model which is the main discussion point here at the moment. 

 

But then again, unfortunately I'm a 1970's modeller so I can't pass an educated comment on how it looks....unless it's blue.......(in the distance, I hear sirens coming for me....) 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Derails Models

[Tim Hall 1,385]

1 minute ago, Derails Models said:

It's really tough, as I'm only just finding out. For example, I've just gone and taken some shots of the loco, brought them onto the PC and toned down the rather "over-excited" lighting we use and then held the model up to the screen....and it's completely different, the photo is far too light. I tried again, different lighting but this time no editing, and again, it is completely different. I then compared the model to the Hornby shot and those of other retailers and in my personal opinion, none of them really match the exact shade! 

 

This is where it gets tough, and I give my apologies but I'm not going to upload the photos I took as I don't want to prejudice anyone with a photograph that doesn't represent the model, which I think looks awesome and runs very well. :-) 

 

But then again, unfortunately I'm a 1970's modeller so I can't pass an educated comment on how it looks....unless it's blue.......(in the distance, I hear sirens coming for me....) 

But which blue?

[Derails Models 1,347]

1 minute ago, Tim Hall said:

But which blue?

 

Don't you start Mr Hall!  Plot twist....they're all wrong?!?!

[Tim Hall 1,385]

Just now, Derails Models said:

 

Don't you start Mr Hall!  Plot twist....they're all wrong?!?!

Could well be!

 

[Ian Hargrave 5,424]

Thanks for your efforts and your candour,Dan.It really does succinctly highlight the difficulties of making an objective judgement.

[The Stationmaster 107,145]

23 minutes ago, Derails Models said:

It's really tough, as I'm only just finding out. For example, I've just gone and taken some shots of the loco, brought them onto the PC and toned down the rather "over-excited" lighting we use and then held the model up to the screen....and it's completely different, the photo is far too light. I tried again, same lighting but this time no editing, and again, it is completely different. Changed more parameters and still I could not get a match. I then compared the model to the Hornby shot and those of other retailers and in my personal opinion, none of them really match the exact shade! 

 

This is where it gets tough, and I give my apologies but I'm not going to upload the photos I took as I don't want to prejudice anyone with a photograph that doesn't best represent the colour of model which is the main discussion point here at the moment. 

 

But then again, unfortunately I'm a 1970's modeller so I can't pass an educated comment on how it looks....unless it's blue.......(in the distance, I hear sirens coming for me....) 

It is an almost unavoidable problem with model photography unless you have all the necessary gear to make sure your image gets the exact colour rendition of the model.   But you then post it online and everybody looks at it on their own 'puters and handheld devices (various) and all of those devices have their own colour settings which will render the colour you photographed in their own way with all sorts of potential minor variations.  Then chuck in your own colour vision, plus the matter of how do you scale the perception of colour and even if it's absolutely right it you might perceive it as wrong.

 

Usually Kernow take their own photos although I believe that Hornby put out an edict some while back stating that shops had to use Hornby official views - which seems not to have stuck so maybe it was withdrawn?).  Anyway the four views on KMRC's site appear not to be Hornby views and the green looks pretty good to my eyes on my 'puter.  However I then come back to 'Melmerby's question about 'which green?' plus 'when?' because on cleaned engines the colour began to change in traffic due to effect of what they were cleaned with and as far as Western engines were concerned was it Swindon's approach to painting or was it Caerphilly's (far, far, better job)?   As I see the Kernow images I think the green is ok and the lining looks pretty good too.

 

Oh, and it hasn't got a shedplate - assuming those are Kernow images

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/61874/R3725-Hornby-GWR-Class-5101-2-6-2T-Large-Prairie-4160

[PMP 6,341]

8 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

It is an almost unavoidable problem with model photography unless you have all the necessary gear to make sure your image gets the exact colour rendition of the model.   But you then post it online and everybody looks at it on their own 'puters and handheld devices (various) and all of those devices have their own colour settings which will render the colour you photographed in their own way with all sorts of potential minor variations.  Then chuck in your own colour vision, plus the matter of how do you scale the perception of colour and even if it's absolutely right it you might perceive it as wrong.

 

snip 

 

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/61874/R3725-Hornby-GWR-Class-5101-2-6-2T-Large-Prairie-4160

Absolutely correct, if you’re going to argue over a correct shade, you need to be using calibrated screens particularly as the shades get closer to each other. The Kernow images in that link I’m pretty sure are Hornby, as the same images appear in Hattons current ad

https://www.hattons.co.uk/430654/hornby_r3725_class_5101_large_prairie_2_6_2t_4160_in_br_lined_green_with_late_crest/stockdetail.aspx

 

If I can blag one from a friend I’ll see if I can get some images later.

[The Stationmaster 107,145]

3 minutes ago, PMP said:

Absolutely correct, if you’re going to argue over a correct shade, you need to be using calibrated screens particularly as the shades get closer to each other. The Kernow images in that link I’m pretty sure are Hornby, as the same images appear in Hattons current ad

https://www.hattons.co.uk/430654/hornby_r3725_class_5101_large_prairie_2_6_2t_4160_in_br_lined_green_with_late_crest/stockdetail.aspx

 

If I can blag one from a friend I’ll see if I can get some images later.

Thanks for that PMP - so they are indeed Hornby.  Now I wonder what of, pre-prod sample or production run.?

[Ian Hargrave 5,424]

3 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Thanks for that PMP - so they are indeed Hornby.  Now I wonder what of, pre-prod sample or production run.?

And it’s this very quandary that causes me to be sceptical of what I see from Hornby.Thus far,all online images are a direct copy.

 

Hence Mike my bringing the issue for an airing. I hope that the “official “ images are a true likeness. I am thus far not holding my breath.Again the issue is not shade but one of finish.I would like not to have that same dull flat colour that has bedevilled many of Hornby’s recent releases.

 

[tomparryharry 6,330]

I could be wrong, but RAL 6020 is pretty damn close. 

 

I reckon some manufacturers deliberately 'mess it up' to create a talking point. Star bogies, anyone?

 

Have a great weekend, folks,

Ian. 

[Butler Henderson 1,743]

Ideally a photo of it alongside other BR green locos is what is needed; I've always taken Bachmanns to be pretty accurate - of course how different it may be can be disguised by weathering to the appropriate extent, which reminds me I really need to something drastic with my blue green Rebuilt West Country. Hattons, Kernow and Hereford usually take their own photos - when Hattons do it is evident by the fact in the series of photos their is one or two of the box as well.

[Ian Hargrave 5,424]

47 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

And it’s this very quandary that causes me to be sceptical of what I see from Hornby.Thus far,all online images are a direct copy.

 

Hence Mike my bringing the issue for an airing. I hope that the “official “ images are a true likeness. I am thus far not holding my breath.Again the issue is not shade but one of finish.I would like not to have that same dull flat colour that has bedevilled many of Hornby’s recent releases.

 

 
Actually,I do believe that I have indeed found images that are not Hornby direct. Olivia’s Trains....an unlikely place I grant you......appears to have a collection noticeably different from the official ones......i e......taken from different angles. The very good news is that the finish does indeed near match the Hornby website images. Mike’s reference to the lack of shedcode caused me to pause at another earlier post here which also mentions the same feature..hence Olivia ‘s Trains. 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Ian Hargrave
accuracy

[The Stationmaster 107,145]

57 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

I could be wrong, but RAL 6020 is pretty damn close. 

 

I reckon some manufacturers deliberately 'mess it up' to create a talking point. Star bogies, anyone?

 

Have a great weekend, folks,

Ian. 

Judging by the way a certain well-known 'public face' of Hornby reacted to it being suggested they'd got the bogie wheels wrong on the 'Star' I don't think it happened for that reason.  Definitely came over as more like a c*ck up (followed by denial) than 'a talking point'  

Edited September 12, 2020 by The Stationmaster

[tomparryharry 6,330]

I merely used the Star as an example. 

 

Publicity is publicity. Especially, if it's a non-damaging publicity. 

 

Probably easier to pass by, with an advancing male population...

 

"What colour is that?

 

"Custard.

 

I like mustard on pork pies....

 

Yes, that nice Mr Hilter is on the telly tonight. He shows up well on 405 lines....