Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie

[Hilux5972]

For what it’s worth, I do agree with gwrrob and believe they will release a new Saint first to coincide with the completion of 2999. They did already have the Saint after all, has been quite a while since it was available so who knows. 

[45568]

4 hours ago, 7007GreatWestern said:

Here is some film taken earlier today of two "Swindon 2 cylinder taper boiler 4-6-0s indistinguishable to all but a very few".

 

 

 

Those of you unable to distinguish between them are politely invited to visit this website where you might find assistance:-

 

https://www.specsavers.co.uk/stores

 

 

Completely off-topic, but many thanks for uploading this. To see a loco. where the last of the class was withdrawn two years after I was born is marvellous. Full credit to the people involved at Didcot.

cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[Miss Prism]

Thanks to 45568, there is now a separate thread on 2999, which will minimise clogging of this Hornby Prairie thread. (There was also a '2999 in black' thread a while back.)

 

[The Stationmaster]

13 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I believe Hornby having already ventured the ever so, ever so, wanted Grange, I would buy all 80 in class really I would, really and truly; are perhaps a little wise to this idea. Another Swindon 2 cylinder taper boiler 4-6-0 indistinguishable to all but a very few from the other Swindon 4-6-0s we make? Perhaps not this year...

I think you're right (although things can change).  It has in the past been said at Margate/Sandwich that 'all GWR 4-6-0s look the same' - which of course they don't, and a straight running plate 'Saint' with the squared drop end at the front would definitely look different from all the others.   But this would ideally have been the year for the 'Saint' to catch the Didcot arrival and that has been missed (maybe a large prairie and a 'Saint' in one year would have been a bit too much for some?   The other marketing problem with the 'saint' is the very limited BR era liveries - either lined black or total, absolute, filth, so lack of a BR lined green version wouldn't help sales (unless faked).

[Ian Hargrave]

2920 was turned out by Hereford in sparkling condition in the last few months of her existence.BR lined black notwithstanding.The South Wales Saints were very much part of my early years as a train freak.Yes by then they were in a run down state but in truth most of our locomotives were.Remembered with much love by this superannuated enthusiast.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Not quite; they had the old Airfix large prairie in various guises for some time... It was unlikely they'd produce a new 5101 while they thought the old one had any mileage left in it, and I'm mildly, though not unpleasantly, surprised that they are going for one now; I'd have been less surprised to see the Airfix version reprised as a Railroad item...

It bears repetition, Hornby are in this to make a profit (despite recent evidence) and churning out product from long amortised tooling should be a good earner. Until a competitor threatens to eat your lunch, keep banging them out; and only then react if the model is an identified strong earner in the range. Conserves capital for 'all new' introductions, which in their present financial position is very necessary. (The passing thought is to wonder whether Hornby have a bank of researched 'vital' subjects to be able to quickly act on upgrading any of their current weaker main range models - they have quite a few don't they - at the first hint of a competitor moving in?)

 

And they might yet reprise the old moulding, in the same way that some other superseded old mouldings have been used to make a Railroad model, with a variant of the new model's mechanism by use of the earlier model's rods and the like.  I imagine that will depend on retailer input that they would like a cheaper option to offer. (Does the Railroad selection offer a big suburban tank loco?) OTOH, there may be sufficient s/h examples of the earlier large prairie models made available by the new replacement coming on the market to more than satisfy this requirement. 

[The Stationmaster]

24 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

It bears repetition, Hornby are in this to make a profit (despite recent evidence) and churning out product from long amortised tooling should be a good earner. Until a competitor threatens to eat your lunch, keep banging them out; and only then react if the model is an identified strong earner in the range. Conserves capital for 'all new' introductions, which in their present financial position is very necessary. (The passing thought is to wonder whether Hornby have a bank of researched 'vital' subjects to be able to quickly act on upgrading any of their current weaker main range models - they have quite a few don't they - at the first hint of a competitor moving in?)

 

And they might yet reprise the old moulding, in the same way that some other superseded old mouldings have been used to make a Railroad model, with a variant of the new model's mechanism by use of the earlier model's rods and the like.  I imagine that will depend on retailer input that they would like a cheaper option to offer. (Does the Railroad selection offer a big suburban tank loco?) OTOH, there may be sufficient s/h examples of the earlier large prairie models made available by the new replacement coming on the market to more than satisfy this requirement. 

Don't forget that Hornby take about two years to develop a model to production and introduction (although LCD has sad he wants to reduce this period - the new Terrier reveals the potential consequences of doing that).  Thus the new large prairie was kicked off back in late2016/2017 and full development has only proceeded after an initial proposal to do so would only be accepted by the decision makers/accountants once the initial detail had been worked up and a proposal put together.  In the case of the large prairie it will inevitably involve separate detail parts and probably at least some slides so you aren't going to get to that in much under 2 years.

 

This makes it difficult for Hornby to react except when they can wheel out old tooling (as with the Class 66) when they see an opportunity to cash in on the market interest which can build with somebody introducing a new 'hi-fi' model.  But if they are going to continue in the original development hi-fi market they have to look at longer development timescales or be prepared (and their customers have to be prepared) to accept not getting things quite right - as is the case with some details on the Terrier including such things as a rather Oxfordesque row of rivets which don't appear to have existed on the original engines.   'Oxfordesque' as in that is exactly what happened on the Oxford Dean Goods where the model boasted rivet heads which didn't exist on the real thing but appeared on the model due to lack of care in, or rushed,  'research', a good reasons not to rely on scanning as it happens.

[Ian Hargrave]

To “do justice “ to the Saint in earlier and final form will require two separate toolings at least...remember that Lady of Legend as is of now is akin to Lady of Lynn in final form but not most of the class that ended their days under BR.such as Saint David,Cefntilla Court etc....

[brushman47544]

10 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Don't forget that Hornby take about two years to develop a model to production and introduction (although LCD has sad he wants to reduce this period - the new Terrier reveals the potential consequences of doing that).  Thus the new large prairie was kicked off back in late2016/2017 and full development has only proceeded after an initial proposal to do so would only be accepted by the decision makers/accountants once the initial detail had been worked up and a proposal put together.  In the case of the large prairie it will inevitably involve separate detail parts and probably at least some slides so you aren't going to get to that in much under 2 years.

 

This makes it difficult for Hornby to react except when they can wheel out old tooling (as with the Class 66) when they see an opportunity to cash in on the market interest which can build with somebody introducing a new 'hi-fi' model.  But if they are going to continue in the original development hi-fi market they have to look at longer development timescales or be prepared (and their customers have to be prepared) to accept not getting things quite right - as is the case with some details on the Terrier including such things as a rather Oxfordesque row of rivets which don't appear to have existed on the original engines.   'Oxfordesque' as in that is exactly what happened on the Oxford Dean Goods where the model boasted rivet heads which didn't exist on the real thing but appeared on the model due to lack of care in, or rushed,  'research', a good reasons not to rely on scanning as it happens.

 

I am convinced that Heljan has some sort of limit on development of new models, whereby after a certain point they go ahead to production even though there may still be known flaws, presumably to keep costs in check. It would be a shame if Hornby followed a similar track with hi-fi models because they will only alienate their customer base.

[The Stationmaster]

3 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

To “do justice “ to the Saint in earlier and final form will require two separate toolings at least...remember that Lady of Legend as is of now is akin to Lady of Lynn in final form but not most of the class that ended their days under BR.such as Saint David,Cefntilla Court etc....

One did survive into BR days with the straight running plate and straight front drop - don't ask me why i know.

[Ian Hargrave]

Canton’s Lady of Lynn,Mike.Much loved apparently.

[No Decorum]

Clogging merrily away (sorry, Miss Prism) in a topic at least concerning modelling, a Saint would be very welcome. To me, it is the yawning gap in GWR models. Hornby did produce one years ago but it and the ancient King Arthur were two models so bad I couldn’t stomach them. If Hornby does oblige, I hope a decent coat of paint is applied. The video is superb. A nice close shot of the bogie confirms that Mr. Kohler was away at Specsavers at the time!

[The Johnster]

Specially cleaned for it’s final duty, a Tidal Sidings-Morton Cutting freight, after which it ran light to Swindon for disposal/scrap. This was 1950 and the loco, with drop frames at the front and original straight at the cab end, was in G W R initials unlined black austerity livery, but with a BR smokebox number plate an 86C Canton shed plate. I think the name and number plates were red backed.  

 

 

[57xx]

19 hours ago, gwrrob said:

My money for what it's worth is Hornby doing the Saint next and Hatton's will do the Manor. Legend was in steam today.

 

Mystic Rob.

 

 

I never pictured you wearing glasses, Rob.

[didcot]

Took a stroll down to the Railway centre on Saturday and captured this. I do like the straight frames.

[Hilux5972]

6 hours ago, didcot said:

Took a stroll down to the Railway centre on Saturday and captured this. I do like the straight frames.

There is a Saint thread a few below this one that I restarted specifically so we could not clog up the Large Prairie thread. Let’s try stick to it if we can. 

[MGR Hooper!]

The latest blog is up....

Featuring the Large Praire

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/large-prairie-mk2f-big-boy

[The Johnster]

Wow. 

 

Am I looking at openable cab roof shutters here?  Liking the support brackets beneath the running plate as well; I think this is another first.  More Kudos Hornby. 

 

I’m fairly determined not to buy one of these until after I’ve bought a Baccy 94xx, but I’ll find one hard to resist in practice, and I think Mr K is on to a winner with this loco.  He’s beaten Dap to the punch, and assuming the loco runs well, Dap are going to have to pull out all the stops and undercut for price to make a go of theirs.  

 

I suspect they’ll concentrate on the Mogul, and possible Manor derivate, and quietly drop their large prairie...

[MikeParkin65]

Hoping against hope that the shade of green on the painted samples makes it to the production version.  

[dibber25]

On 06/04/2019 at 12:10, brushman47544 said:

 

I am convinced that Heljan has some sort of limit on development of new models, whereby after a certain point they go ahead to production even though there may still be known flaws, presumably to keep costs in check. It would be a shame if Hornby followed a similar track with hi-fi models because they will only alienate their customer base.

I would expect a limit of some sort to exist in some form within every organisation. No one can afford to throw endless money at a project. Eventually the decision has to be made to either go now or not go at all. The secret is to get everything right first time, but that is a very tall order indeed. (CJL)

[gwrrob]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Hoping against hope that the shade of green on the painted samples makes it to the production version.  

 

Absolutely, I can't be the only one glad to see no cut outs in the body for the number plates to be fitted to too. It certainly looks to be better quality than their 42xx/52xx of the design clever era.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

Wow. 

 

Am I looking at openable cab roof shutters here?  Liking the support brackets beneath the running plate as well; I think this is another first.  More Kudos Hornby. 

 

 

Opening cab roof shutters? They've been standard for over fifteen years. First time I came across them was on the A4.

 

 

 

Jason

[gwrrob]

9 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

 First time I came across them was on the A4.

 

 

Which part of the road to Bristol is that then.

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, gwrrob said:

 

Which part of the road to Bristol is that then.

 

Where's the groan button? 

 

I'll be up for at least a couple of these. I'm now wondering what to do with the half dozen Airfix/Mainline ones I've got in various states of repair*, some of which I have already got Comet chassis and other parts for...

 

Methinks some of the variants need looking at. 81xx, 31xx, etc.

 

*All knackered ones bought cheap (similar number of 43xx and Manors as well)

 

 

Jason

[The Johnster]

I’ve a vague intention to do a bit of old fashioned style bashing to make 3100 one day, the ultimate prairie; Collett 1936 design, no.4 boiler with 5’3” drivers.  Tondu allocated in my period, needs new wheels on Airfix chassis, boiler from Dapol/ Kitmaster CoT. 

Edited April 26, 2019 by The Johnster