Hornby - New tooling - LMS Princess class

[robmcg]

So happy to see this, finally but no proper LMS version seems strange.

 

Don't the pre-prod resin models show vacuum pumps under the slidebars?

 

edit oops sorry everyone is way ahead of me on the details. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by robmcg

[richard.h]

Finally! The old Princess is one Hornby model I never bought as it looked so dated but if this is up to the standard of the new Duchess it will definitely be on my shopping list.

[Synch]

Has there been any confirmation about which livery Princess Elizabeth will be in?  If it's postwar black I'm afraid I'll be waiting until they make a LMS Crimson one!

Very pleased about this, however I thought it would have been done before the Duchesses, now if only we can get The Princess Royal as built at some point.

[leander22b]

It isn't clear from the announcement exactly which liveries are being offered but the Hattons website shows 6201 in LMS crimson lake, 46206 in BR blue & 46207 in BR crimson (I think she only ever carried LMS style lining). Personally I'd have liked a green one.

Edited January 7, 2019 by leander22b

[Brocp]

It isn't clear from the announcement exactly which liveries are being offered but the Hattons website shows 6201 in LMS crimson lake, 46206 in BR blue & 46207 in BR crimson (I think she only ever carried LMS style lining). Personally I'd have liked a green one.

There are a few product codes between the locos, perhaps a shop exclusive will appear soon like Rails did with Duchess of Hamilton?

[Francis deWeck]

I'm wondering if the new tooling extends to a trailing bogie which works, or is it the continuation of one concept fits all, as found in the Brits, Clans, WC/BoB (rebuilds) and Duchesses. Any ideas anybody?

[RedgateModels]

I fear it will have the fixed rear pony with flangeless wheels for anything other than prototypical curves. Can't see Hornby changing this practice sadly.

[Ian Hargrave]

There are a few product codes between the locos, perhaps a shop exclusive will appear soon like Rails did with Duchess of Hamilton?

I have another “ candidate “ for exclusivity quite close to home and that being 6203/46203 resident at Butterley belonging to PMR Trust. Be nice ?

[farren]

I hope 46205 will be a future release it would go nicely with the one I've just ordered and the two kit built Royals I have.

[MikeParkin65]

I'm wondering if the new tooling extends to a trailing bogie which works, or is it the continuation of one concept fits all, as found in the Brits, Clans, WC/BoB (rebuilds) and Duchesses. Any ideas anybody?

Given the length of the prototype I very much doubt if anything other than the Duchess arrangement will be possible. On the plus side at least it has the front the brakes fitted

[MikeHunter]

Given the length of the prototype I very much doubt if anything other than the Duchess arrangement will be possible. On the plus side at least it has the front the brakes fitted

 

I have problems with the cartazi truck on my previous version of the Dutchess shorting on points, hope the Princess is better. 

[farren]

Lms used Bissel trucks not cartazi trucks

Edited January 8, 2019 by farren

[MikeParkin65]

I have problems with the cartazi truck on my previous version of the Dutchess shorting on points, hope the Princess is better.

 

Yes mine do that occasionally too. I think it’s more of an issue on DCC systems than analogue. I’m not sure why the flangeless wheel has to be so wide, a thinner wheel would have less opportunity to create a short.

[LNER4479]

6200 & 6201 were effectively prototypes with some differences from 6203-6212. 

1 had strengthening bars fitted for a while. I can't remember if this was 6205 or 6206 without having to look it up.

6205 was uniquely fitted with an outside motion bracket which facilitated activation of the inside valves via rocking levers from the outside valve gear (thus doing away with the separate inside valve gear altogether). This arrangement was effectively that adopted for the Duchesses (albeit far more elegantly), hence 6205 was a prototype for her younger sisters in that regard.https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/446419381797402754

 

I doubt very much that Hornby will ever produce a version that accurately portrays 6205 in this manner. However, top marks to Margate for tooling up for different versions of the slide bars and motion brackets for 6200-6201 versus 6203-6212.

 

Meanwhile muggins here is now pondering what to do with his half modified old Hornby Princess. Hey ho...

Edited January 8, 2019 by LNER4479

[Brocp]

If Hornby Magazine is to be believed the only members of the class that can't be modelled with the new tooling will be Turbomotive and 6200 in original condition. So we may get 6205 yet.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

If Hornby Magazine is to be believed the only members of the class that can't be modelled with the new tooling will be Turbomotive ...

 

Well, it's a better starting point for a DIY Turbomotive I suppose. That is the one Stanier loco model I would still purchase, the sadly abandoned experiment.

 

 

I have problems with the cartazi rear truck on my previous version of the Dutchess shorting on points, hope the Princess is better. 

Yes mine do that occasionally too. I think it’s more of an issue on DCC systems than analogue. I’m not sure why the flangeless wheel has to be so wide, a thinner wheel would have less opportunity to create a short.

 

The best solution (if modification to fit a flanged wheelset isn't on the agenda) is to simply remove this horrible device. At least up until now all Hornby pacifics visited by this abomination have it mounted in a way that facilitates simple and rapid disposal

[MikeParkin65]

Well, it's a better starting point for a DIY Turbomotive I suppose. That is the one Stanier loco model I would still purchase, the sadly abandoned experiment.

 

 

 

The best solution (if modification to fit a flanged wheelset isn't on the agenda) is to simply remove this horrible device. At least up until now all Hornby pacifics visited by this abomination have it mounted in a way that facilitates simple and rapid disposal

Not wishing to restart the debate re fixed pony wheels but the shorting is a once in a blue moon occurrence  - nothing like frequent enough to warrant doing anything about. To me the flangeless wheel looks fine most of the time - if anything it emphasises just how overscale the flanges of the other wheels are (out of necessity of course).

[MikeHunter]

Just spotted on the Hornby site (finally working) that 6201 is going to be available in Crimson Lake either DCC ready, or DCC fitted. Seems to be around £30 difference in the RRP, is it worth paying the extra, or adding your own decoder? 

[MikeParkin65]

Just spotted on the Hornby site (finally working) that 6201 is going to be available in Crimson Lake either DCC ready, or DCC fitted. Seems to be around £30 difference in the RRP, is it worth paying the extra, or adding your own decoder? 

Getting the tender off the Duchess was a nightmare (see Andy's youtube if its still up!) - I'd pay £30 to have it fitted if its the same.

[1BCamden]

Thank you Hornby for considering and listening to enthusiasts and forums such as rmweb, and retooling this legacy model.

While I have five still in the box Hornby princess class (R.2313) waiting to be modified and renamed to suit my layout date, which just happened to be while the whole class still had 9t Stanier tenders.

I did however hold off getting a 6200 and 6201 donor models hoping this retool would eventuate.

My challenge now, and that of a few others within this forum I think, and with some excitement, will be to bring my existing pretooling class examples up to this new tooling standard.

Thankfully suppliers such as brassmasters are already on the journey regarding these requirements and will further improve this great class type. Hopefully my NRM copy of LMS Locomotive Profile #4, The Princess Royal Pacifics, by David Hunt, Bob Essery, and Fred James will be off the shelf a little more often.

Edited January 10, 2019 by 1BCamden

[Brocp]

Thank you Hornby for considering and listening to enthusiasts and forums such as rmweb, and retooling this legacy model.

While I have five still in the box Hornby princess class (R.2313) waiting to be modified and renamed to suit my layout date, which just happened to be while the whole class still had 9t Stanier tenders.

I did however hold off getting a 6200 and 6201 donor models hoping this retool would eventuate.

My challenge now, and that of a few others within this forum I think, and with some excitement, will be to bring my existing pretooling class examples up to this new tooling standard.

Thankfully suppliers such as brassmasters are already on the journey regarding these requirements and will further improve this great class type. Hopefully my NRM copy of LMS Locomotive Profile #4, The Princess Royal Pacifics, by David Hunt, Bob Essery, and Fred James will be off the shelf a little more often.

You won't get the older ones up to the standard of the new ones no matter what you do. The loco body on the ones released on the early 2000s is a fair way off in terms of accuracy/shape etc.

 

I got rid of my ones ages ago awaiting this annoucement. I model about a decade or so after you and am getting 6201 and 46206 to make them in to 1947 versions....

 

Speaking of 46206, will the coal pusher be modelled i wonder?

[Pete the Elaner]

Just spotted on the Hornby site (finally working) that 6201 is going to be available in Crimson Lake either DCC ready, or DCC fitted. Seems to be around £30 difference in the RRP, is it worth paying the extra, or adding your own decoder? 

It will be a Hornby R8249 inside. If you're happy with that, then I guess it will be worth it.

 

I would rather have a Zimo running it, so will prefer a non-fitted one.

[1BCamden]

You won't get the older ones up to the standard of the new ones no matter what you do. The loco body on the ones released on the early 2000s is a fair way off in terms of accuracy/shape etc.

I got rid of my ones ages ago awaiting this annoucement. I model about a decade or so after you and am getting 6201 and 46206 to make them in to 1947 versions....

Speaking of 46206, will the coal pusher be modelled i wonder?

Oh, I was hoping you weren’t going to say that, but I shouldn’t be surprised considering the flak it has had.

And, there is ebay to recover some of the original outlay.

Coal pusher, and the multitude of variations over the years, could be an interesting opportunity for Hornby.

Edited January 11, 2019 by 1BCamden

[sandwich station]

6205 was uniquely fitted with an outside motion bracket which facilitated activation of the inside valves via rocking levers from the outside valve gear (thus doing away with the separate inside valve gear altogether). This arrangement was effectively that adopted for the Duchesses (albeit far more elegantly), hence 6205 was a prototype for her younger sisters in that regard.

 

I've just come across this on the internet. https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/8p-46200-46212-4-6-2-lms-stanier-princess-royal/

 

46205 was rebuilt in 1947 with two sets of Walschaert valve gear instead of the four on the other engines. The inside valves were operated by rocking shafts. It was converted back to normal in 1955.

 

This would have been towards the end of the Coronations, so sounds more like an experiment to see whether this system would suit the Princess Royals maybe?

[pH]

I've just come across this on the internet. https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/8p-46200-46212-4-6-2-lms-stanier-princess-royal/

 

46205 was rebuilt in 1947 with two sets of Walschaert valve gear instead of the four on the other engines. The inside valves were operated by rocking shafts. It was converted back to normal in 1955.

This would have been towards the end of the Coronations, so sounds more like an experiment to see whether this system would suit the Princess Royals maybe?

 

Both "British Pacific Locomotives" by C.J. Allen and "Loco Profile #37 - LMS Pacifics" say that 6205 got the modified valvegear arrangement in 1938.