Brocp Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 No Lizzies were wartime black. All were still red. All of the Duchesses bar 6230, 6232, 6233 and (I think) 6234 were black. Those ones were red, 6232 possibly 6230 until BR ownership. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Brocp said: No Lizzies were wartime black. All were still red. All of the Duchesses bar 6230, 6232, 6233 and (I think) 6234 were black. Those ones were red, 6232 possibly 6230 until BR ownership. Much appreciated. I have just bought a red BR 46203 which didn't exist but a wartime black 6201 won't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Looking at Ramsay's it appears the only attempt by Hornby to model the original Princess 6200 and 6201 with Fowler-style tender was in 1984-5 so as mentioned elsewhere I bought one, tender drive and all, on Enbay, from Gostude, and it is as new... Quite impressive and evokes for me the dramatic running between London and Scotland with 500-ton trains in 1933-4 when they wouldn't steam well, sometimes arriving with little or no coal left... I was well away form railway modelling in 1984 and notice the mouldings are not right in every way, but I still like the model. just for fun I photo edited a later version chassis under the engine... It will be interesting to see how the new state-of-the-art model measures up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 And in better light the class leader Princess LMS 6200 'The Princess Royal'... 35 years since this was made, and if you go back anoth 35 years you would get a black Triang Princess.. Bullet-proof engine, no small details falling off, rather nice body and paint, box is marked £29.50. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) They don't make 'em like they used to! Pic borrowed off ebay (In this case, thank goodness!) I know I keep promising to unearth my Lizzies for a comparison shoot, but circumstances are against it for the moment... Edited September 17, 2019 by Hroth 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 (edited) Indeed Hroth, there are some things we learn to forget in life... well, I do. Please note that the LMS 6200 model of 1984 has the correct early shorter firebox, something that later models never managed, so far as I know. I have many and various pics planned of this early Princess version, mainly in honour of O S Nock's marvellous writing about a 1934 cab-ride from Symington to Euston with 500 tons and crews who were unfamiliar with the engine. From p102-3 in 'British Locomotives from the Footplate' Ian Allan 1950. Edited September 18, 2019 by robmcg correction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted November 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2019 Hornbys Princess 6201 Princess Elizabeth has broken cover at Warley, finished model expected to release in January 3 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, adb968008 said: Hornbys Princess 6201 Princess Elizabeth has broken cover at Warley, finished model expected to release in January I observe that this version is post 1935 with no vac pump and domed boiler, I wonder if it is a pre-production version? Certainly looks brilliant! edit; I hope the distinctive vacuum pump on the front left slidebar will be included as per the initial drawings, maybe they will arrive late, having been made for the wrong side in a previous pre-production version. Edited November 23, 2019 by robmcg addition Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 13 hours ago, adb968008 said: Hornbys Princess 6201 Princess Elizabeth has broken cover at Warley, finished model expected to release in January Hi adb968008 I just sent you a PM with a version of the Princess which was fun to do.... cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) On 24/11/2019 at 05:30, adb968008 said: Hornbys Princess 6201 Princess Elizabeth has broken cover at Warley, finished model expected to release in January Hi adb968008 On reflection, perhaps I would be permitted to show your photo above of the Warley model as displayed, and with your photo edited by me, after all what could possibly go wrong? Grateful acknowledgements to you. What a fine model this looks likely to become! I can't wait to see the production versions. Usual note about photo, it has been edited a tiny bit... I used the Hornby CAD drawings from the previous message to add some details. Cheers Edited November 25, 2019 by robmcg 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted November 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 25, 2019 Nice Rob, considering the base image was just an iphone snap through the cabinet glass. I was sceptical about Hornby repeating the princess, as while the Duchess was nice, its predecessor wasn't bad either. Having seen the Princess close up, I am very impressed with the finesse, it looks very sharp to the eye, especially the bottom end, and I think they've got the maroon dead on too. Whilst I wish the owners of 6201 would give the real thing a coat of green or blue just for a while, Hornby have rendered 6201 as a model in LMS very well. I suspect this is going to be quite popular. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 14/09/2019 at 01:05, Brocp said: No Lizzies were wartime black. All were still red. All of the Duchesses bar 6230, 6232, 6233 and (I think) 6234 were black. Those ones were red, 6232 possibly 6230 until BR ownership. According to my records (which may not be 100%): All streamliners carried wartime black, repaints started in 1943. 6233 went straight from crimson lake to 1946 black, not wartime black. 6234 went straight from crimson lake to an experimental blue. I am not sure it carried any LMS black. 6221, 6223 & 6235 were the first 3 to be de-streamlined in plain black before 1946 black was decided. 6223 & 6235 were quickly painted 1946 black but I don't 6221 retained it a little longer. All the other de-stramliners went straight into 1946 black except 6243 which remained a streamliner until 1949. 6249-6249 carried plain black from new but never had a streamlined casing. They all later received 1946 black. 6253-6255 carried 1946 black from new. But we were talking about Princessess... None carried wartime black. 6206, 6210 & 6211 carried 1946 black, as did the turbomotive. The rest were stayed red until nationalisation. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 On 14/09/2019 at 01:09, robmcg said: Much appreciated. I have just bought a red BR 46203 which didn't exist but a wartime black 6201 won't happen. 6203 carried BR red in preservation though. It is certainly in that livery now & I believe it was when it had a main line ticket, so you don't have to model Butterley's West Shed in order to run it authentically. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocp Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said: According to my records (which may not be 100%): All streamliners carried wartime black, repaints started in 1943. 6233 went straight from crimson lake to 1946 black, not wartime black. 6234 went straight from crimson lake to an experimental blue. I am not sure it carried any LMS black. 6221, 6223 & 6235 were the first 3 to be de-streamlined in plain black before 1946 black was decided. 6223 & 6235 were quickly painted 1946 black but I don't 6221 retained it a little longer. All the other de-stramliners went straight into 1946 black except 6243 which remained a streamliner until 1949. 6249-6249 carried plain black from new but never had a streamlined casing. They all later received 1946 black. 6253-6255 carried 1946 black from new. But we were talking about Princessess... None carried wartime black. 6206, 6210 & 6211 carried 1946 black, as did the turbomotive. The rest were stayed red until nationalisation. The Black I meant was Wartime for the Duchesses. 6221 was Wartime black until after BR ownership too, being the only destreamlined loco to do so. Edited November 25, 2019 by Brocp 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Brocp said: The Black I meant was Wartime for the Duchesses. 6221 was Wartime black until after BR ownership too, being the only destreamlined loco to do so. I thought it was. My records are mainly constructed from Jenkinson's LMS livery book, but with a few alterations because I have found it to not be entirely correct. I have 6221 as being in plain black for the rest of its LMS days, but I was a bit sceptical about its accuracy because they seem to re-paint the others quite hastily, so I wondered if I simply had something missing for '21. I quite like them in wartime black but I seem to be in a minority. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocp Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 There's a photo in, I think, one of the It's all books in either 48 or 49 of her in wartime black with 46221 on the cab sides. I do quite like them in wartime black too. 6252 lasted to BR in plain black too, a loco I modelled in that condition some years ago. Regarding the Princesses in LMS livery in BR days, 6204 did last until 1952 in Crimson Lake with BR number/LMS on tender. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, adb968008 said: Nice Rob, considering the base image was just an iphone snap through the cabinet glass. I was sceptical about Hornby repeating the princess, as while the Duchess was nice, its predecessor wasn't bad either. Having seen the Princess close up, I am very impressed with the finesse, it looks very sharp to the eye, especially the bottom end, and I think they've got the maroon dead on too. Whilst I wish the owners of 6201 would give the real thing a coat of green or blue just for a while, Hornby have rendered 6201 as a model in LMS very well. I suspect this is going to be quite popular. Indeed, and as is far too often the way, within hours of me spending ages creating a picture someone else who actually HAS the model publishes a pic! picture from Hattons ad today. Presumably a factory pic of pre-production sample, still no vac pump as per CADs and a standard smokbox door handle... Edited November 25, 2019 by robmcg typos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted November 26, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said: 6203 carried BR red in preservation though. It is certainly in that livery now & I believe it was when it had a main line ticket, so you don't have to model Butterley's West Shed in order to run it authentically. Certainly did, seen here after an 86 brought the tour to Lostock Hall, 47337 brought it to Blackburn and 46203 took over for a 1 way run to Carlisle before the AC took over... Railtours were different then, steam was avoided under the wires, S&C trips were one way, and the Princess did as much tender first mileage as trip mileage. And here 46203 is passing at Coalville open day in the early 1990’s... Edited November 26, 2019 by adb968008 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 15 hours ago, Brocp said: I do quite like them in wartime black too. 6252 lasted to BR in plain black too, a loco I modelled in that condition some years ago. That's interesting. According to my Jenkinson book, it was given 1946 black in 1947. I did say I was aware it had some errors! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocp Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said: That's interesting. According to my Jenkinson book, it was given 1946 black in 1947. I did say I was aware it had some errors! All the photos I have seen of her have been in wartime black during the period. Though I could totally be wrong too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 (edited) For those who haven't seen it yet here is the painted sample in the Hattons Email, with a note from them that it is a paint sample, the final model not yet done. I think it is the same model adb968008 photographed on display at Warley. Edited November 28, 2019 by robmcg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted November 28, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2019 3 hours ago, robmcg said: For those who haven't seen it yet here is the painted sample in the Hattons Email, with a note from them that it is a paint sample, the final model not yet done. I think it is the same model adb968008 photographed on display at Warley. Looking at that image, the bogie is still rather “skateboard” looking. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted November 28, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 28, 2019 She does look gorgeous doesn't she . I used to drool over the 1971 Triang Hornby catalogue with the then short Princess Elizabeth in LMS red . 48 years later I may have to get this one too , although I do have the previous model in BR Crimson 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted November 28, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Hilux5972 said: Looking at that image, the bogie is still rather “skateboard” looking. As with the Duchess I believe the gap between representation of the frames and the bogie is larger than scale to allow for the less than billiard table level track that most of us end up with! That said, with the front steps and the drain cocks fitted the opportunities to see the gap will be more restricted and from most normal viewing angles this isn't an issue. Incidentally the Duchess front bogie, whilst crude in form is dimensionally very similar to the Comet etched version of the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted November 29, 2019 Share Posted November 29, 2019 Reading the engine shod blog released today it mentions them pushing the boat out and fitting firebox flicker to these. A nice feature that hopefully can carry over to other new models in future. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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