Steamport Southport Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) If people are looking for parts to detail them. Try Brassmasters. They sell many of the bits from their rather fine kits separately. Jason Edited February 22, 2020 by Steamport Southport 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted February 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2020 20 hours ago, Robin Brasher said: I have seen the Hattons review as well and it looks like it is an excellent model. My problem is what to do with my tender driven 'Princess Elizabeth' which I think is ok. The gears are still engaging in the tender and the locomotive wheels have not seized up so it is a good runner. If it breaks down I will not be able to get it repaired and there is not enough room in my flat for what I have got let alone two 'Princess Elizabeths' . It would also not be prototypical to have two locomotives with the same name running at the same time on my layout. The one thing I do not like on the new model is the fixed pony truck with non flanged wheels whereas the tender driven model has a swivelling pony truck with flanged wheels. Should I offer the old 'Princess Elizabeth' in part exchange to Hattons for a new one or keep the old one and save over £100? I have not had much luck with toy fairs or auctions where I live and often the costs of hiring a table exceed anything I try to sell. My tender driven Princess is also a really good runner. I would imagine there is very little likelihood of it breaking down as those tender drives are very rugged and the only things likely to need replacements are the brushes or traction tyres, both of which should remain readily available on the spares/second hard market for many years. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Barry Ten said: My tender driven Princess is also a really good runner. I would imagine there is very little likelihood of it breaking down as those tender drives are very rugged and the only things likely to need replacements are the brushes or traction tyres, both of which should remain readily available on the spares/second hard market for many years. The spigots which hold the primary drive gears are known to wear. When this happens, you are left with 1 axle drive in 1 direction, which gives very poor traction. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) Thirty-five years development: 1984-5 R050 6200, 2001 R1045 6201, and 2020 R3709 6201. Just for fun. Still waiting for my 6201 the above is by Rails of Sheffield but I edited the driving wheels.... l/h side to r/h side , 'rods up'. cheers I particularly like the frontal detail of the 2020 model and the valve gear being correct, but do like the others too. Edited February 22, 2020 by robmcg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Compared to the old, the new model looks superb. It seems to have a lot more 'weight' in some intangible way However, (and this is a gripe I have with all modern Hornby locos), I feel the matt finish lets it down. I'd almost prefer to have the full gloss of the original. I will no doubt be buying elizabeth sometime soon to replace R1045 but I'll be finding some way to give it a bit of a shine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 I think Bachmann get the 'satin' finish just right ... more of a sheen to it than Hornby's. Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 (edited) 15 hours ago, atom3624 said: I think Bachmann get the 'satin' finish just right ... more of a sheen to it than Hornby's. Al. I agree. If anything, older machines were even better. Hornby’s LMS & LMR reds are amongst the best Hornby finishes. It was curious after all the argument about Hornby matching paint samples, it all died away when the first Duchesses appeared in it. The trouble with Hornby is lack of consistency. GWR and BR greens are, let’s say, not on a par with the red. Edited February 23, 2020 by No Decorum Clarification. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Are the Princess cab doors hinged or fixed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) Fixed in place. Edited February 24, 2020 by Black 5 Bear Punçtuation 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted February 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2020 21 hours ago, No Decorum said: I agree. If anything, older machines were even better. Hornby’s LMS & LMR reds are amongst the best Hornby finishes. It was curious after all the argument about Hornby matching paint samples, it all died away when the first Duchesses appeared in it. The trouble with Hornby is lack of consistency. GWR and BR greens are, let’s say, not on a par with the red. Interesting photo's. As an aside I think these pictures also show that the 'new' Bachmann Jubilee is a quantum leap forward on 'presence' in much the same way as the new Princess is over its predecessors. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted February 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said: As an aside I think these pictures also show that the 'new' Bachmann Jubilee is a quantum leap forward on 'presence' in much the same way as the new Princess is over its predecessors. True to an extent, but compare the 1983 Mainline Jubilee* with the 1984 Hornby Princess to understand what we thought of it at the time. Also interesting to see a model with the 1936 sans serif lettering. *approximate date - the pictured model has the improved chimney which was introduced fairly early on; the original effort was horrid. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 24, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) On 21/02/2020 at 12:27, Pete the Elaner said: I'll be interested to compare it to the older model. Maybe my previous generation ones are due for a conversion to Turbomotives Recent Hornby territorial moves (71000,W1, P2, Ivatt Duchess) would suggest a Turbomotive could be a possibility in the future. Are there any giveaway clues.. chimney, smokebox or visble parts of the frames around the buffer beams being separate pieces perhaps ? Edited February 24, 2020 by adb968008 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markn Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 With all the pics and videos of 6201 doing the rounds, I'm really excited about Princess Arthur of Connaught arriving. Hopefully it's not too much longer now. The new tooling looks great! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 I'm more interested in 6212 Duchess of kent as I model the LMS and already have the more recent 6201. The trouble is, if I do get 6212 will I then be forced to replace 6201 with the new tooling to keep them looking the same? Hornby must be rubbing their hands with glee. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 On 24/02/2020 at 15:45, adb968008 said: Recent Hornby territorial moves (71000,W1, P2, Ivatt Duchess) would suggest a Turbomotive could be a possibility in the future. Are there any giveaway clues.. chimney, smokebox or visble parts of the frames around the buffer beams being separate pieces perhaps ? That's an interesting thought. There are potentially 5 variations of it: As built in LMS Crimson Lake with a domeless boiler. In 1936 it was fitted with a domed high-superheat boiler, which it kept. In 1938, it got the longer reverse turbine casing & smoke deflectors. From what I can tell, these were fitted at the same works visit. It was still in Crimson Lake livery at this time. In 1947, it was painted in LMS' 1946 passenger black livery. In March 1949, it was given BR black with LNWR style lining. The last 3 would use the same tooling, but I believe would be less popular than the versions without smoke deflectors. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, jacko said: I'm more interested in 6212 Duchess of kent as I model the LMS and already have the more recent 6201. The trouble is, if I do get 6212 will I then be forced to replace 6201 with the new tooling to keep them looking the same? Hornby must be rubbing their hands with glee. 6212 & 6204 were the only 2 Princesses which carried Crimson Lake throughout their LMS days. I expect they would have been faded underneath a thick layer of dirt by 1948 though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted February 27, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said: That's an interesting thought. There are potentially 5 variations of it: As built in LMS Crimson Lake with a domeless boiler. In 1936 it was fitted with a domed high-superheat boiler, which it kept. In 1938, it got the longer reverse turbine casing & smoke deflectors. From what I can tell, these were fitted at the same works visit. It was still in Crimson Lake livery at this time. In 1947, it was painted in LMS' 1946 passenger black livery. In March 1949, it was given BR black with LNWR style lining. The last 3 would use the same tooling, but I believe would be less popular than the versions without smoke deflectors. a couple of examples... A streamlined P2 is a distinct possibility, under the hood, the chassis block has an A4 style curved profile... so it was thought of... however the Original MN has a very distinctive block of weight above the drivers, that would preclude its use on a rebuilt MN...Which suggests to me a new Rebuilt MN is not in the current plans. Another example was the service sheet of the Sentinel showed “rods”, a good year before a rod version was released. Edited February 27, 2020 by adb968008 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbeagleowner Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 On the subject of changing identities I thought I'd share that I was looking at whether 46206 could be coverted to 46203. It was looking good until I found that Princess Marie Louise was the only Princess with the coal pusher fitted. I checked the model pics and and it indeed on there. So great attention to detail by Hornby but that does mean a simple renumbering isn't possible. Just in case anyone else was wanting to go down that route... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 How much further can the detailing go one could ask? How about .... There's been a problem with the A3 / A4 tenders being too high wrt the locomotives, which some say is 'load related'. It would make perfect sense - so much coal and water - fully laden it would be lower than when half, or less as can happen during a decent 'race to the North' .... What if there were a way to have adjustable height wrt load in the tender? Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 16 hours ago, cbeagleowner said: On the subject of changing identities I thought I'd share that I was looking at whether 46206 could be coverted to 46203. It was looking good until I found that Princess Marie Louise was the only Princess with the coal pusher fitted. I checked the model pics and and it indeed on there. So great attention to detail by Hornby but that does mean a simple renumbering isn't possible. Just in case anyone else was wanting to go down that route... I can't find my book on the class right now, but didn't they change tenders at different times? Other individualities are: 6205 receiving rocking levers for its inside cylinders instead of dedicated valve gear & frames around the outside sliders to absorb some of the stresses this caused. It was in service 3 years before receiving this modification though. 6212 had its smokebox door secured by circumference lugs rather than the usual dart. It will be interesting to see if Hornby model this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocp Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 24 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said: I can't find my book on the class right now, but didn't they change tenders at different times? Other individualities are: 6205 receiving rocking levers for its inside cylinders instead of dedicated valve gear & frames around the outside sliders to absorb some of the stresses this caused. It was in service 3 years before receiving this modification though. 6212 had its smokebox door secured by circumference lugs rather than the usual dart. It will be interesting to see if Hornby model this. It stayed with 6206 until scrapping then went behind a Duchess (off the top of my head it was one of 46221/22/23) Regarding 6212 it appears to have a door dart, hopefully it will, as I'll buy more than one to renumber in to locos that stayed red after the war. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted February 28, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 28, 2020 6212 had a normal smoke box door fitted somewhere in the 1940s (I think) so it should have a dart fitted for the time period it’s model 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron3820 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 Princess Elizabeth arrived down under today, and jeez, it’s properly heavy! Hornby have done a fantastic job with these locos. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollanaut Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 My Princess Elizabeth arrived down under (NZ) last week. I had a chance to run her in on my layout at the weekend. I’m pleased to report that she runs as great as she looks, smooth and steady straight from the box. After the usual running in session, I added a set of nine assorted LMS coaches, including six Hornby Stanier Period IIIs, two of Bachmann’s older LMS coaches and the Hornby (ex-Dapol) 12 wheel restaurant car. She handled this fairly heavy train effortlessly and showed no signs of slipping. Fast too, just like the prototype! I got the impression she could handle more coaches without any trouble, thanks to the substantial weight of this model. She seems a lot more robust than some of Hornby’s recent releases, though that could be down to the sleek profile of the real thing, as there are less fiddly protruding bits to fall off. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, aaron3820 said: Princess Elizabeth arrived down under today, and jeez, it’s properly heavy! Hornby have done a fantastic job with these locos. What beautiful detailing around the smokebox, boiler and motion. I've taken the liberty of enlarging part of your excellent photo, I hope you don't mind. I can't wait for mine, which is en route to NZ. Cheers 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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