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Hornby - New tooling - Ruston 48DS 0-4-0


Andy Y
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On 22/11/2020 at 13:48, john new said:

I have a DVLR 'Jim" on pre-order via Hattons*, do we have any updates yet as to whether delivery is likely to be roughly on-time (i.e.about now as announced) or delayed, possibly considerably, like two of my other current pre-orders? I don't mind if it is, although disappointing, but it helps gauge cash-flow to know when something like this is actually due.

 

Four full months on since I made this post and it is still outstanding. It is the modern way of things but extremely unsatisfactory from a customer perspective. There are acceptable delays and taking the p**s. The money is put aside, Jim if he ever does turn up will be welcomed, but I am not holding my breath for either this or the more recently announced Rowntree livery (also pre-ordered in hope rather than expectation). Hornby have gone down in my estimation through this prolonged failure to supply and failure to inform the customer.  My Oxford & TMC pre-orders also long overdue but they have at least occasionally announced something on the progress (or lack of it) on the model.

 

When I was working in IT this type of product was often called vapour ware or brochure ware! 


*Edit - I did have, but the pre-order got cancelled! I sometimes wonder why we bother with new stuff, so much hassle?

 

Edited by john new
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  • 3 weeks later...

Having picked up the army 802 Ruston recently I set about taking it apart ready for a repaint and renumber into DS1169. Even though people have mentioned how the body comes off I don’t remember seeing the cab disassembled so thought I’d post my progress so far.

A54F360E-9AEC-4D2F-91BB-84D5D2ECFDA5.jpeg.44d3da4e24cdd5c06bc0c25fdcd29c29.jpeg

The body unscrews at the cab then the bonnet and cab separated easily. The buffers could be removed by simply pulling them out.

I wanted to take it to pieces to give me a easier job removing the wasp stripes and not leave ghosting on the surface.

B49578F6-DDDE-4A85-BAEF-E96650F93B99.jpeg.623c9ee5ed3ea44364fba55fe4b1a47f.jpeg

Gentle prising with a scalpel removed the cab roof and glazing and now the body parts are having a Dettol bath. I already have some plates on order from 247 Developments but wanted to check what people have used for chipping it up.

Is  the Gaugemaster DCC93 a suitable chip to go for (before I buy one)?

OliverSR

 

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Well done, Oliver.   Another prototype that could result from your method is that of "CAEN" which because of its size lasted for a very long time on the Longmoor Military Railway as best suited to training army railmen on crane lifting of locomotives.   A drawing and photos of "CAEN" appear on page 697 of "Longmoor Military Railway - Part 3".   I thought this would have been a good candidate for Hornby to release.   Colin.

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Further to my previous post, could I ask as many as possible to lobby Hornby to do an early release of CAEN in Longmoor blue.   My WD 802 is a superb runner and shunter on its own.   PAL3 is the number given to its Conflat 'runner' but is meaning less.   Alas I can find no record of the army ever purchasing Conflats from BR.   So best if the Conflat 'runner' to CAEN be decorated as a BR Conflat in their normal way.   Please can the message to lobby get out to as many military railway interested folk as possible.   Colin.

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23 hours ago, OliverSR said:

Having picked up the army 802 Ruston recently I set about taking it apart ready for a repaint and renumber into DS1169. Even though people have mentioned how the body comes off I don’t remember seeing the cab disassembled so thought I’d post my progress so far.

A54F360E-9AEC-4D2F-91BB-84D5D2ECFDA5.jpeg.44d3da4e24cdd5c06bc0c25fdcd29c29.jpeg

The body unscrews at the cab then the bonnet and cab separated easily. The buffers could be removed by simply pulling them out.

I wanted to take it to pieces to give me a easier job removing the wasp stripes and not leave ghosting on the surface.

B49578F6-DDDE-4A85-BAEF-E96650F93B99.jpeg.623c9ee5ed3ea44364fba55fe4b1a47f.jpeg

Gentle prising with a scalpel removed the cab roof and glazing and now the body parts are having a Dettol bath. I already have some plates on order from 247 Developments but wanted to check what people have used for chipping it up.

Is  the Gaugemaster DCC93 a suitable chip to go for (before I buy one)?

OliverSR

 

A Zimo MX617N should just plug in. I've found them to be better than the Gaugemaster stuff.

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Pleased to say I have now finished my repaint into DS1169.

C287123E-7A7A-4EB2-B1E2-CCD667A2EBED.jpeg.5673b2e426afb5fb4c4f080772624159.jpegF0DC3FB3-D86F-4CAB-B3F1-C6852B1F8192.jpeg.b8b9f177e786b7b70ed5b69b316cd9a8.jpeg

The bonnet piece went back to plastic with a soak in Dettol however the cab wasp stripes was a bit more stubborn so I resorted to paint stripper back to bare metal on it. This is all so I don’t have wasp stripes showing though when I repainted it.

A5F64212-D22F-4682-83A6-0EB6F25ACF3C.jpeg.fc78344bfdc535f93a9e9f955614e531.jpeg
It was brush painted with Humbrol 151 on the body and Plastikote insignia red on the bufferbeams. Then the glazing and detailing parts removed earlier were glued back on. The loco was Finally finished off with the 247 Developments numbers and I’m very pleased with the results. I don’t plan on weathering it as I prefer a pristine(unrealistic for sure) look on my models.

OliverSR

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...

Please forgive me if this has been brought up before, but I'm curious. 

I'm pondering whether I can excuse a Longmorn Distillery 'Queen Anne' 48DS to shunt some 'whiskey wagons' on a small layout (yes I know - I've probably answered my own question there :D !) Whilst looking to see what's still about I discovered that EKMexhibitions have one for sale at an attractive price on which the large side advertisements have been tampo-printed directly onto the bonnet side panels, which means the louvres and catches all show through. It also looks a bit dusty, is missing the cab end bufferbeam coupling hook and has an odd-looking white plastic autocoupler at that end. Knowing that EKM claim to have contacts within Hornby from their East Kent Models days, could this be the original R3707 livery sample which led to the adoption of the flat panels for the large side advertisements on the main production run?

 

PS If I'm right that must be it in the 'gang of four' front 3/4 views in Andy Y's first post (unless there was more than one of course) - the side-on images appear to show a CGI'd separate ad panel so there must have been a quick decision that it didn't look too good as supplied!

Edited by Neil Phillips
Added the PS....
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 26/07/2021 at 14:11, Neil Phillips said:

Please forgive me if this has been brought up before, but I'm curious. 

I'm pondering whether I can excuse a Longmorn Distillery 'Queen Anne' 48DS to shunt some 'whiskey wagons' on a small layout (yes I know - I've probably answered my own question there :D !) Whilst looking to see what's still about I discovered that EKMexhibitions have one for sale at an attractive price on which the large side advertisements have been tampo-printed directly onto the bonnet side panels, which means the louvres and catches all show through. It also looks a bit dusty, is missing the cab end bufferbeam coupling hook and has an odd-looking white plastic autocoupler at that end. Knowing that EKM claim to have contacts within Hornby from their East Kent Models days, could this be the original R3707 livery sample which led to the adoption of the flat panels for the large side advertisements on the main production run?

 

PS If I'm right that must be it in the 'gang of four' front 3/4 views in Andy Y's first post (unless there was more than one of course) - the side-on images appear to show a CGI'd separate ad panel so there must have been a quick decision that it didn't look too good as supplied!

 

It seems that the original was repainted in the Queen Anne whisky advertising livery, with the flat side panels, when the Longmorn system was closed in the early 1980s and the loco was donated to the Strathspey Railway.  see the history section here
https://whiskyshunters.blogspot.com/

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1 hour ago, DavidBird said:

 

It seems that the original was repainted in the Queen Anne whisky advertising livery, with the flat side panels, when the Longmorn system was closed in the early 1980s and the loco was donated to the Strathspey Railway.  see the history section here
https://whiskyshunters.blogspot.com/

 

Interesting, many thanks for the link. So the flat side panels were actually replacement engine compartment doors, not advertising panels as such, with a gap left for engine ventilation. 

 

So much work involved in the restoration of such a small and relatively simple locomotive, my admiration for the preservation movement has just gone up another notch!

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HI All,

I am a bit late to this conversation.

 

My wife gave me a Express Dairies version as a late Christmas present.

She wasn't so impressed that I pulled it apart.

But is delighted that it now back together having been converted to EM using Gibson Lo-Mac wheels .

This was suggested in an earlier post.

I think that P4 would work just as well.

 

20210803_200352.jpg.9b7c54da4c1efa522989f52bc7b1c5bf.jpg

 

20210803_200827.jpg.6bd8d468d0a267d5bef3c1fc9d51f32c.jpg

 

The only thing that I dislike is that my model kept shedding detail parts.  So gone are most of the lifting eyes, but that's ok as they look like they were removed from the prototype. But I am a bit miffed that the rear lamp has gone AWOL... that is if it was fitted by Hornby as there seems to be no sign of glue around the location hole. 

No problem I will make one up or take a mould of the front one and make a copy.

 

Now to find a suitable driver.

 

I was also inspired build a small layout for it and will start a thread on that, just as soon as I find the right place.

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

I'm also late to the party on this one and interested in conversion to P4. 

 

brightspark - what axles did you use for your conversion? Was Alan Gibson able to supply suitable stub axles with the Lowmac wheels? I know yours is EM but maybe they can do the equivalent for P4. Also, did you attempt to drill out the four stress holes in the wheel disks like the real Rustons have?

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6 hours ago, Martin Kelly said:

I'm also late to the party on this one and interested in conversion to P4. 

 

brightspark - what axles did you use for your conversion? Was Alan Gibson able to supply suitable stub axles with the Lowmac wheels? I know yours is EM but maybe they can do the equivalent for P4. Also, did you attempt to drill out the four stress holes in the wheel disks like the real Rustons have?

Hi Martin,

I just used a pair of Lowmac solid wheels as they come on the pin-point axle which is Ø2mm.

 

I spoke to Colin at Gibson Workshop about this. Although he would like to do some new wheels and industrial stuff, he finds that he really doesn't have the time available to do the development work.

However it is not a disaster as the conversion really is dead simple and I think that this would make an ideal project for anyone thinking of dabbling in either P4 or EM.

 

Here is the conversion method. (I should do a manual sheet for both societies)

 

1. Remove body and lower plate as per Hornby diagram.

Note that you must push the plug back into the chassis to remove the body.

 

2 . Take the Gibson wheels as supplied on their axles.

Remove both wheels.

 

3. Take each axle and removed from both ends of the axle the pin-points. Then shortened the axle to length. In my case 21mm [21 = B to B + (wheel thickness x2)]. You should have enough room for P4, but I don't know how thick the Gibson P4 wheels are. An alternative is Wizard whose wheels, I believe, are a little narrower.

Don't forget to add a slight chamfer onto the ends of the axle so that you open out the bore of the wheel.

 

4. Carefully measure and mark up where the Hornby gear will need to be on the new axle by measuring the offset from the centre line.

 

5.Place the axle onto a cutting mat or similar, take a hand file of around 6 inches in length, and using the edge of the file with teeth, roll the axle across the mat using the file and a fair degree of pressure at the point where you marked the axle. This will provide a splined effect on the axle sufficient to grip the axle gear wheel

 

WARNING- DO NOT MAKE THE SPLINE TOO WIDE. There is a bearing that is very close to gear wheel and you must not allow the spline to enter the bearing. 

(If you do make it wide, run a swiss file around the excess spline so that it enters the bearing freely.

 

6. With the Gibson wheels off the axles drill out the stress holes. It is quite easy, The first pair of holes are already part of the way through. The other two I did by lining up the wheel on my cutting mat and using the lines of the mat as a guide.

 

7. Remove the wheel assemblies from the Hornby model and strip. Recover the gears and bushes.

 

8 . assemble the replacement axles by first installing the gears, then the bushes and finally the wheels setting the correct wheel spacing using a back to back gauge.  Before installing the new axle assemblies I greased them well.

You do not need any spacer washers behind the wheels as the gears hold the wheels sets in position with a little bit of side play.

 

9. with the axles assembled and and the base plate back on check that the model is sitting on the track correctly.

 

10.  The existing pick ups were designed to run on the back of the Hornby wheel but the Gibson wheel has a plastic centre  and will be too far away. So solder some phosphor-bronze wire onto the existing pick-ups to extend them so that they reach the tire of the wheel. Adjust so that they all touch and then cut the pick to length.

 

11. test run and put the body back on. 

 

The AJ coupling was mounted by bending the tail 90° and bonding it into a slot inside the body. Also make a clearance slot on the chassis.

 

It has to be the easiest conversion ever.

 

Here is another shot of mine with it's proud driver who is always smartly turned out.

 

1341615014_20210819_204022a(2).jpg.4bdf00085e51388799a3a4f00d811314.jpg

 

Let me know how you get on.

 

A

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14 hours ago, brightspark said:

 

Hi Martin,

I just used a pair of Lowmac solid wheels as they come on the pin-point axle which is Ø2mm.

 

I spoke to Colin at Gibson Workshop about this. Although he would like to do some new wheels and industrial stuff, he finds that he really doesn't have the time available to do the development work.

However it is not a disaster as the conversion really is dead simple and I think that this would make an ideal project for anyone thinking of dabbling in either P4 or EM.

 

Here is the conversion method. (I should do a manual sheet for both societies)

 

1. Remove body and lower plate as per Hornby diagram.

Note that you must push the plug back into the chassis to remove the body.

 

2 . Take the Gibson wheels as supplied on their axles.

Remove both wheels.

 

3. Take each axle and removed from both ends of the axle the pin-points. Then shortened the axle to length. In my case 21mm [21 = B to B + (wheel thickness x2)]. You should have enough room for P4, but I don't know how thick the Gibson P4 wheels are. An alternative is Wizard whose wheels, I believe, are a little narrower.

Don't forget to add a slight chamfer onto the ends of the axle so that you open out the bore of the wheel.

 

4. Carefully measure and mark up where the Hornby gear will need to be on the new axle by measuring the offset from the centre line.

 

5.Place the axle onto a cutting mat or similar, take a hand file of around 6 inches in length, and using the edge of the file with teeth, roll the axle across the mat using the file and a fair degree of pressure at the point where you marked the axle. This will provide a splined effect on the axle sufficient to grip the axle gear wheel

 

WARNING- DO NOT MAKE THE SPLINE TOO WIDE. There is a bearing that is very close to gear wheel and you must not allow the spline to enter the bearing. 

(If you do make it wide, run a swiss file around the excess spline so that it enters the bearing freely.

 

6. With the Gibson wheels off the axles drill out the stress holes. It is quite easy, The first pair of holes are already part of the way through. The other two I did by lining up the wheel on my cutting mat and using the lines of the mat as a guide.

 

7. Remove the wheel assemblies from the Hornby model and strip. Recover the gears and bushes.

 

8 . assemble the replacement axles by first installing the gears, then the bushes and finally the wheels setting the correct wheel spacing using a back to back gauge.  Before installing the new axle assemblies I greased them well.

You do not need any spacer washers behind the wheels as the gears hold the wheels sets in position with a little bit of side play.

 

9. with the axles assembled and and the base plate back on check that the model is sitting on the track correctly.

 

10.  The existing pick ups were designed to run on the back of the Hornby wheel but the Gibson wheel has a plastic centre  and will be too far away. So solder some phosphor-bronze wire onto the existing pick-ups to extend them so that they reach the tire of the wheel. Adjust so that they all touch and then cut the pick to length.

 

11. test run and put the body back on. 

 

The AJ coupling was mounted by bending the tail 90° and bonding it into a slot inside the body. Also make a clearance slot on the chassis.

 

It has to be the easiest conversion ever.

 

Here is another shot of mine with it's proud driver who is always smartly turned out.

 

1341615014_20210819_204022a(2).jpg.4bdf00085e51388799a3a4f00d811314.jpg

 

Let me know how you get on.

 

A

All excellent advice but I think he'll find there isn't sufficient space between the cast sideframes for P4 wheels set at anything like P4 BtB.  I suggest checking very carefully before starting . . . 

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2 hours ago, Stanley Melrose said:

All excellent advice but I think he'll find there isn't sufficient space between the cast sideframes for P4 wheels set at anything like P4 BtB.  I suggest checking very carefully before starting . . . 

 

Too true. I've converted a good few  to both P4 and EM. I found the trouble with Gibson Lowmac wheels was an inconsistent tyre width. It could vary between 2.25 & 2.45 mm width.

 

I have to say though that all the Gibson wheels I tried were bought before Colin took over the business. 

I also found the width over the wheel recesses in the chassis casting to vary, averaging out at 26.6mm. The Gibsons would fit between the sideframe but it was tight and once the wheels had rubbed through the chassis paint shorts would occur. Bigger problems occurred due to lowmac wheels being a bigger diameter with the wheel flanges then rubbing through the paint to cause sparks. (I mod the un-driven axle to rock giving some compensation, so I need slightly more clearance).

I don't think Pete55 had this problem using Kean Maygib lowmac wheels sourced from the EMGS stores.

 

48DS-Hornby-063-EditSmDIME.jpg.49405f2683d77e05fbd7c2c241701d0d.jpg

 

For one EM conversion I just thinned the standard Hornby wheels in a lathe also reducing the flange depth by filing.  No chassis relief was needed here but you lost deep dish appearance of the the prototype.

 

48DSHindlow(RSQ)Wheels_1973.jpg.126fbbcee0e368c72860dd9ef33d6adc.jpg

 

More here and over the following few pages.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 03/08/2021 at 17:18, Neil Phillips said:

 

Interesting, many thanks for the link. So the flat side panels were actually replacement engine compartment doors, not advertising panels as such, with a gap left for engine ventilation. 

 

So much work involved in the restoration of such a small and relatively simple locomotive, my admiration for the preservation movement has just gone up another notch!

I've got a couple of bodies coming my way from a club mate who has used the chassis for a 3D printed loco.  One is the 'whisky' one so I'd like to know if the side panels are removable from the body?  And if so, are the 'standard' louvres underneath?  I'm not sure what the other livery is yet but probably not a whisky one.  I'm doing mine in P4, intending to use a High Level gearbox/chassis intended for use with the Judith Edge kit along with a set of scratchbuilt inner frames and Gibson wheels.  Has anyone tried this approach yet?

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1 hour ago, 5050 said:

One is the 'whisky' one so I'd like to know if the side panels are removable from the body? 

I think this was discussed earlier in the thread. 

 

Ebay can be helpful.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255030413407?hash=item3b60ff485f:g:EhQAAOSwYwVg1yI7

 

Second off last image in the ribbon, viewed full page shows the louvres are there. Looks like a standard bonnet moulding with a couple of holes drilled in the accept spigots.

 

No sign of blanked holes on the standard bonnet.

 

48DS-Hornby-059-EditSm.jpg.b3a20424b1778cc41bb2d7aba316a276.jpg

 

Are you off to Badsworth tomorrow?

 

Edited by Porcy Mane
Cos the link doesn't link to the full size ebay image.
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Turns out my 'donor' has already removed the panels for hsi photos for an article he's writing.  He also has an 'Army' version I can possibly have.  One of the options I might consider is the Adam Lythgoe loco that worked at Minera Lime Works prior to the rail access closing.  It was finished in an all white with black buffer beams and valance.  Quite an easy repaint hopefully.  And then weathered all white as well.  Easy.........................................:no:

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Taken it apart, including the buffer beams (hooks removed by straight forward pulling) - but cab roof seems to be securely attached and I ain't going to force it.  Going to order a 21mm Quad Driver from HL today and work out a design/pattern for the inside frames.  I've got several pairs of Gibson Lowmac wheels which are slightly to wide for the chassis so my intention is to mount the chassis in the vertical slide on the lather and lightly mill the recesses deeper. 

 

Should I start a thread on Kit and Scratch  Building?

 

BTW, here's a link to the Adam Lythgoe white 48DS, a little way down the page.

 

https://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=107741

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2 hours ago, 5050 said:

but cab roof seems to be securely attached and I ain't going to force it. 

 

Be brave an push a little harder. Mine came away eventually. Well glued but firm thumb pressure working away from the cab corners soon had it cracking into submission. You ain't going to damage the cab with it being die-cast.

 

Drag beams were another matter: Only one out of six has come away cleanly. Five have left their mounting spigots in the running plate casting, resulting in me having to use 16BA countersunks for retention. The heads have filler applied after reassembly.

 

48DS-Hornby-070-EditSm.jpg.30d92d4558f4d3643b888e03e9454628.jpg

 

2 hours ago, 5050 said:

my intention is to mount the chassis in the vertical slide on the lather and lightly mill the recesses deeper. 

 

Tread carefully.  Depending on how you plan to hold the running plate for milling it may be prudent to make up a tight fitting spacer for the void were the chassis sits. The casting is comparatively weak across the end bearers and will deform in the area of the hole under clamping.

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Thanks for the tips PM.  I'll try the roof again, perhaps I'm being a bit to careful!  My buffer beams came away quite cleanly, only one spigot broke but I'll probably stick them back in due course.  Can't really see a need to take them off again once everything is finished - unless of course you can advise me different!

 

I was considering clamping the chassis vertically, using the flat ends in the machine vice.   Good advice on making a spacer.  I've plenty of wood scraps that will come in useful. The steps etc. on the sides will get in the way if clamping in the other direction.  I'll also have to take care of the sand pipes during milling - unless they can be pulled out. Have you tried this?

 

The Quad Driver and small iron core motor now ordered (along with a Load Hauler + and motor to replace the one I nicked from my Gordon Ashton Peckett chassis kit).  Nothing like a bit of plastic bashing to raise the spirits.

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On 29/09/2021 at 18:39, 5050 said:

I'll also have to take care of the sand pipes during milling - unless they can be pulled out. Have you tried this?

 

As you can see; the first sandpipe bought it when I tried to remove it by pulling. It made me change tack, so with the dragbeams removed, I could access the bottom of the moulding and poke them out with a sharpened jewellers screw driver. No glue was used on any that I have removed.

 

652644518_48DS-Hornby-071-PwD-2021-EditSm.jpg.350fdefe7c94f9f097692cba92fc9959.jpg

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