RMweb Gold 57xx Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2019 Very nice but very expensive! At that sort of price it would be nice to think that they might have pickups and DCC-controlled internal lighting...??? Expensive? They are sub £50 RRP, street price would most likely be low £40s maybe even sub-£40. Compared with the £70 RRP autocoach from Bachmann, this seems to be a very good price to me given the level of detail evident on the pics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) What like the LMS non corridor stock currently £25 at Kernow? The LNER Gresleys and Thompsons have been similar prices as well. Many of the model shops have had deals of 4 coaches for £100 recently. Jason I'm talking £4 to £6 levels.I'm a cheapskate and wouldn't dream of taking my razor saw to any coach in the 25 quid bracket! Edited January 9, 2019 by lofty1966 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGV Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 What could be a nice idea is for all 4 coaches along with a large prairie as a GWR suburban train pack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2019 I'm talking £4 to £6 levels. I'm a cheapskate and wouldn't dream of taking my razor saw to any coach in the 25 quid bracket! Most of my cut'n'shut is on coaches from the scrap bins or cheap slightly damaged things no-one wants on Ebay. I did however take a risk on doing a Hornby P3 Pull-Push Trailer last month as I found a Comet etched end I bought from Geoff Brewin in the days when the Manchester Show was at the Co-op. A fairly simple job of cutting a big hole in the Brake end of a bargain Hornby suburban, repaint and renumber then sticking the finished etch on. Total cost about £30. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Expensive? They are sub £50 RRP, street price would most likely be low £40s maybe even sub-£40. Compared with the £70 RRP autocoach from Bachmann, this seems to be a very good price to me given the level of detail evident on the pics. £44 seems to be the trending sale price following a trawl of the online retailers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Bear Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) In the early 1950s there was one working with a London 5 coach set which did an evening Birmingham District working of Oxford - Banbury, Banbury - Leamington, Leamington - Birmingham. The following morning it did Birmingham - Leamington, Leamington - Oxford, Oxford - Didcot, then Didcot - Paddington. In the notice I have been reading I couldn't find Birmingham Non-corridor sets getting past the Oxford area or Princes Risborough, but they appear to have been booked on the Wellington - Market Drayton - Crewe service as well as to Cheltenham and Hereford. Most of the longer workings possibly being done in a series of short hops then wait for the next express to pass? That's good info, thank you. i am modelling post war GWR period so that's probably close enough. Will check out if those services are in the timetable i'm working to. That it is an expanded 5 car set is a bonus, means I can slot in something homemade. Presumably the additional coach would be an all third? Edited January 10, 2019 by The Great Bear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 To quote from the October 1946 carriaage working programme: "The trains shewn herein to be formed with Q Sets to be formed with FIVE COACH NON-CORRIDOR SETS (including two Van Thirds) (ie Four Coach Local Suburban set and Third extra) or Six Coach close coupled "Local C" sets. Note - it will be necessary to continue the use of the four coach Suburban Sets and six coach "Local C" sets in the formation of "Q" Sets and the First Class lettering on these sets has been discontinued. The "Q Sets" to be interchangeable and any speclally made up to meet requirements must be formed: - Van Third, three Thirds, Van Third (non-corridor stock)." In other words, yes - add a third to a four coach set. The move towards five coach sets was not completed until the Hawksworth suburbans began arriving in the early 1950s. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 £44 seems to be the trending sale price following a trawl of the online retailers Hornby have an arrangement that nothing should be discounted more than 15% when first launched. So £44 is on the money. They might get cheaper in the future but I suspect that these will sell so well that there won't be any left to discount. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 To quote from the October 1946 carriaage working programme: "The trains shewn herein to be formed with Q Sets to be formed with FIVE COACH NON-CORRIDOR SETS (including two Van Thirds) (ie Four Coach Local Suburban set and Third extra) or Six Coach close coupled "Local C" sets. Note - it will be necessary to continue the use of the four coach Suburban Sets and six coach "Local C" sets in the formation of "Q" Sets and the First Class lettering on these sets has been discontinued. The "Q Sets" to be interchangeable and any speclally made up to meet requirements must be formed: - Van Third, three Thirds, Van Third (non-corridor stock)." In other words, yes - add a third to a four coach set. The move towards five coach sets was not completed until the Hawksworth suburbans began arriving in the early 1950s. Chris That sort of information will produce a run on the all-third, as bods like me rush to get the missing one. I'll need to get in quick! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2019 They might get cheaper in the future but I suspect that these will sell so well that there won't be any left to discount. I agree. Have my 2 BR sets on pre-order Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2019 To quote from the October 1946 carriaage working programme: Which division is this CWP? Thanks Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
89A Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 That sort of information will produce a run on the all-third, as bods like me rush to get the missing one. I'll need to get in quick! An all third would sell well but Hornby haven't announced one yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 57xx Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 Hornby have an arrangement that nothing should be discounted more than 15% when first launched. So £44 is on the money. They might get cheaper in the future but I suspect that these will sell so well that there won't be any left to discount. My sub £40 dream was optimistic then, but I was on the money for low £40s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Which division is this CWP? Thanks Alan London Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 An all third would sell well but Hornby haven't announced one yet. Hello everyone To the best of my knowledge, there is no Third on the same underframe, otherwise I'm sure Hornby would have made it. The 00 Poll Team listed the 1930-1933 stock in The Wishlist Poll 2018 and not these 1927 types. But we can understand why Hornby wish to make full use of their existing materials and it does give a good GWR livery to add to the BR ones. Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The common Hawksworth 3rd was the long (64') 10-compartment C83, but it had a very different shape to that of the earlier Colletts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris45lsw Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Hello everyone To the best of my knowledge, there is no Third on the same underframe, otherwise I'm sure Hornby would have made it. The 00 Poll Team listed the 1930-1933 stock in The Wishlist Poll 2018 and not these 1927 types. But we can understand why Hornby wish to make full use of their existing materials and it does give a good GWR livery to add to the BR ones. Brian (on behalf of The 00 Poll Team) Yes, as Brian says, there were no all thirds on the 57ft underframe with 7ft bogies. Apart from the 4 car sets - D98/E131/E131/D98 - being modelled by Hornby, there were 5 car sets in the same style for South Wales - D101/E134/C56/E134/D101 - BUT the C56 third was on a 55ft 6in underframe. Chris KT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 Thanks Chris Indeed, the subject of GW non-gangwayed stock is a complex one and guaranteed to get anyone stuck between a rock and a hard place! Hornby's selection is pragmatic. For those wanting a 'Third', Michael Harris in his book, Great Western Coaches from 1980, says that some of the Composites were downgraded to Third from late 1953. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 A 5th, 6th etc coach does not have to be from a matching diagram. Images of the four coach sets show strengthening vehicles which can be anything from a non corridor clerestory to modern corridor stock. This is the GWR! Having two or more matching coaches in any set breaks tradition. Mike Wiltshire 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BMacdermott Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 Hello Mike Understood - but I was replying to those who were wondering why Hornby hadn't made a 'matching' Third. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 The common Hawksworth 3rd was the long (64') 10-compartment C83, but it had a very different shape to that of the earlier Colletts. And bigger windows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 The problem for any RTR manufacture making GW suburban Collett or Hawkworth stock is the different lengths of underframes that these coaches had, with very few diagrams sharing a common underframe. This, paradoxically, is the result of standardisation, but of compartment sizes not underframes. Hornby have done very well with these coaches and, despite my South Walian leanings and slight disappointment that Valleys sets were not produced, their choice is a sensible decision given the gangwayed Colletts they already produce with the same bogies, and the longevity of the prototypes. A passable all third could probably be cut and shut from 2 composites, but if you have that sort of skill level you'd probably be thinking about Comets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 The problem for any RTR manufacture making GW suburban Collett or Hawkworth stock is the different lengths of underframes that these coaches had, with very few diagrams sharing a common underframe. This, paradoxically, is the result of standardisation, but of compartment sizes not underframes. Hornby have done very well with these coaches and, despite my South Walian leanings and slight disappointment that Valleys sets were not produced, their choice is a sensible decision given the gangwayed Colletts they already produce with the same bogies, and the longevity of the prototypes. A passable all third could probably be cut and shut from 2 composites, but if you have that sort of skill level you'd probably be thinking about Comets. I was thinking of changing the lettering alone, IE, all third. A slight problem being that the stock I seem to remember was not bow ended.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 Depends on your period; I believe some of these were downgraded during the 50s to all seconds (3rd had been renamed 2nd by then), after the more modern Hawksworth and BR standard suburbans had been introduced and it was felt that these older coaches were no longer up to the mark as far as first class was concerned for the purposes of the London or Birmingham season ticket commuter traffic. But even then not all were painted with the '1's on the doors removed, and would have carried window stickers informing passengers that they were 'for the use of second class passengers'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2019 A passable all third could probably be cut and shut from 2 composites...................... Already looked, doesn't work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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