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Hornby - New tooling - 57' Bow-ended suburban coaches


Andy Y
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4 hours ago, sdh-stbriavels said:

Hello

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but I'm looking for some guidance.

 

I want to change the GWR version from shirtbutton to the 'GWR and crest' livery (pre 1934). Is it as simple as removing the shirtbutton and adding GWR / crest, or are there additional things I would need to do?

 

Thanks in anticipation

 

Yes you can. There are several ex-works shots in Russell's GW Coaches Appendix Vol 1 that show single waist lining and GWR/Double shield around 1933-34*.

You'll have a little bit of extra work though as the "Third" designations were done away with; Guard, Luggage & First remained unchanged though.

 

*D.116 - Figs 244 & 245

D.117 - Figs 249 & 250

E.146 - Figs 384 & 385

E.147 - Fig 387 - Nos 6785 & 6786 built 1933 arranged as a B-Set & branded "Llanelly No. 4".

 

Assuming a roughly 5-year repaint schedule it's quite plausible for a 1929-built coach to have had a makeover just before the adoption of the Roundel in July 1934.

 

Pete S.

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7 hours ago, M.I.B said:

With respect to the Hornby Part numbers - what is the difference between  R4877 A and  R 4877?

 

 

And why haven't these been made up into 4 coach packs?

 

Thanks.

 

Hornby with these first releases seems to be trying to please everyone. They are selling the coaches separately so people who want can buy one or two, but equally are selling more than one running number (the A versions) to allow others to buy the coaches needed to make up an accurate set.

 

They did this with the recent Maunsell coaches releases, and the new Mk3s are shown with multiple versions as well.

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12 hours ago, Merfyn Jones said:

Have I missed it ?  Has there been an answer to why they had right and left hand coaches ?

Or is it a wind up that Hornby has fallen for ?

 

LMR man so all a bit odd to me.

Bit odd to us GW types as well, Merfyn, but they really were handed and it's not a wind up.  The only possible reason that I can see for this would be to get the ventilators in line on a 4 coach set, but why you would want to do that I have no idea!

 

I'm currently building a Comet Collett C66 all third non gangwayed coach, the later flat ended style with 9' bogies, and this has handed ventilators as well for no conceivable reason that I can determine.  As the inestimable Miss P says, it's just the way they were...

Edited by The Johnster
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3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Bit odd to us GW types as well, Merfyn, but they really were handed and it's not a wind up.  The only possible reason that I can see for this would be to get the ventilators in line on a 4 coach set, but why you would want to do that I have no idea!

 

Could it be as simple as the works thinking 'well we did it for the corridor versions so shouldn't we do it for these too'...

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Whilst I have no use for these new models myself, I have no doubt that many modellers will want to obtain them, and may well wish to renumber their models.

 

I have previously produced suitable BR-period transfers for renumbering RTR coaches, and I am considering doing the same for these new models.

 

However, I am no expert in matters relating to ex-GWR coaching stock, and I wonder if any member who fits that description would care to let me know what the correct number series is for each of the models that Hornby is to introduce? Ideally, I need to know the Hornby reference (Rxxxx) number; the diagram number of the prototype; and the corresponding number series.

 

I'd rather get it right first time, and I will therefore offer a free sheet of the resulting transfers to anyone who can assist.

 

Note that these will be BR-era transfers, and if some / all coaches require set allocation markings, I will include these if the information is forthcoming.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/index.htm

Edited by cctransuk
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John - first pass is:


hornby-suburbans.png.4268d656748ad394c0fc05f0c8496c18.png

If that does what you want, I'll post the excel file.

 

Set number makeup: this is given in Clearwater's previous post.  (I suppose, by BR(W) times, there is a possibility of some swapping of constituent composites within some sets.)

 

Hornby seems to have adopted the annotation format of. e.g.:

 

BIRMINGHAM DIVISION

               43

 

whereas the prototype notation (see here and here) is:

 

BIRMINGHAM DIVISION TRAIN No.

                       31

 

I'm not completely sure about the content and layout of the formatting, and it might have been updated in the '30s. Interestingly, the format for the earlier Toplight sets is different:

 

BIRMINGHAM DIVISION

               No 6

 

 

What seems slightly mad is that there is, e.g. a Toplight set 'No 6' and a non-Toplight set 'No 6'. I haven't got my GWRJ5 available - does it shed any light on this craziness?

 

Edited by Miss Prism
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16 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Surely that would require a different diagram though

Not necessarily. It would correspond to my (untested) theory a few pages back regarding keeping the battery boxes on the same side for ease of charging, replacement, etc.

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2 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

John - first pass is:

hornby-suburbans.png.baf7ab99f1c0424d47389a23cac4194a.png

If that does what you want, I'll post the excel file.

 

Set number makeup: this is given in Clearwater's previous post.  (I suppose, by BR(W) times, there is a possibility of some swapping of constituent composites within some sets.)

 

Hornby seems to have adopted the annotation format of. e.g.:

 

BIRMINGHAM DIVISION

               43

 

whereas the prototype notation (see here and here) is:

 

BIRMINGHAM DIVISION TRAIN No.

                       31

 

I'm not completely sure about the content and layout of the formatting, and it might have been updated in the '30s. Interestingly, the format for the earlier Toplight sets is different:

 

BIRMINGHAM DIVISION

               No 6

 

 

What seems slightly mad is that there is, e.g. a Toplight set 'No 6' and a non-Toplight set 'No 6'. I haven't got my GWRJ5 available - does it shed any light on this craziness?

 

 

Thank you for that - I have PMed you and Clearwater.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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On 15/02/2019 at 07:39, David Bigcheeseplant said:

I just wondered if the left right hand thing relates to the underframe, and the position of the dynamo.

 

Hard to say. They are at the same end relative to first class but I can’t tell what side of the centre line they are from the pics!.

 

As said earlier the rooves are definitely mirrored tho, hence handed. We just don’t know why they bothered.

 

Edit: I've just spotted in one photo only there is the extra guards window showing on one side of the brake end and looks like its always on the same side in each formed set.

Edited by Hal Nail
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12 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

 

 

Hornby seems to have adopted the annotation format of. e.g.:

 

BIRMINGHAM DIVISION

               43

 

whereas the prototype notation (see here and here) is:

 

BIRMINGHAM DIVISION TRAIN No.

                       31

 

I'm not completely sure about the content and layout of the formatting, and it might have been updated in the '30s. Interestingly, the format for the earlier Toplight sets is different:

 

BIRMINGHAM DIVISION

               No 6

 

 

What seems slightly mad is that there is, e.g. a Toplight set 'No 6' and a non-Toplight set 'No 6'. I haven't got my GWRJ5 available - does it shed any light on this craziness?

 

 

Further to the above, p217 of the GWR Journal 5 article on ‘Birmingham Division Suburban Trains’ has 3 very nice 1947 shots of suburban stock resplendent in the final postwar GWR livery, two of which show coach end branding, in one case:

 

Birmingham Division 

             46

 

and in the other,

 

Birmingham Division

             43

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