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Andy Y

Hornby - New tooling - 57' Bow-ended suburban coaches

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Many thanks to Johnster and Miss Prism for confirming what l suspected.

 

Oh well back to hoping that someone produces a new version of the classic GWR Autocoach up to current 21st century standards then !!!  

 

Many Thanks

 

Bob C

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30 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

Many thanks to Johnster and Miss Prism for confirming what l suspected.

 

Oh well back to hoping that someone produces a new version of the classic GWR Autocoach up to current 21st century standards then !!!  

 

Many Thanks

 

Bob C

 

If someone produces a new GWR Autocoach, I hope they make one that's different from what's currently avaiable. Something like the A32, A32 or A34 (GWR) or A41 or A42 and A43 or A44 (BR(WR)). 

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I'd be delighted to see any panelled or matchboarded trailer, but the Diagram N, already produced by Dapol (previously Lionheart) in 7mm, would be particularly welcome should Dap be thinking of putting it through a shrink ray, as I know no.38 worked in my area at my period.  

 

The most numerous single type of trailer, 70 odd built IIRC, was the A26, a panelled 70 footer which might make it less likely as an RTR model for setrack curves.  Nu-Cast used to do a kit for this but it is not listed among the Nu-Cast items currently available from Hattons.  I have 2 A31s, panelled despite being introduced later than A30 all steel trailers but actually much older in the form of steam railmotors, which they were rebuilt from.  These are K's whitemetal kits and a bit crude but they respond well to 'working up'.  As supplied, there are no floors or interiors, and they are about as much as Baccy 4575 can manage!

 

It would be nice to see a reworking to modern standards of an all steel Collett trailer as well; the old Airfix still in production from Hornby Railroad is a bit of a hybrid with features of A28 and A30 trailers.  The bogies are a bit crude, with brake blocks not in line with the wheels, and the sides are too thick; they were game changers when they were introduced 40 odd years ago but things have moved on since then.

 

The BR 1953 'Cyclops' A43/4 trailers are available in kit form from Comet, as are the Collett coaches they were rebuilt from.  I have a C66/75 which is the original form of the 'intermediate' A43 with no driving cab, and intend to build the A44 in due course.  There is also a 3D printer, Rue d'etropal, who does bodyshells for the N and the matchboarded A7, but they are not cheap (I'm sure they are priced reasonably to their production costs, but a full coach is going to be over £100).

 

Bits and pieces to improve RTR or finish kits are about, here and there.  Dart Castings do a detailing kit which include the cab equipment, which is pretty much standard on all auto trailers, and bogies are available from RTR sources, Comet, and Stafford Road Works/Shapeways, the last being 3D prints again, very good runners with RTR wheels and with NEM dovetails printed in.  Comet are good for underframe detail such as battery boxes or vacuum cylinders.

 

The Hornby Collett suburbans (see how I got back on topic, there) are the first ever correct GW non-gangwayed stock that is not a B set, and something of an overdue provision, but one can see why RTR manufacturers have fought shy of GW suburbans, as many of them are different lengths because of the differing combinations of standard sized compartments that make them up, so you cannot get away with a common underframe like you can with LMS or LNER stock.

 

B sets were used on main line stopping trains as well as branches, but were rarely used as sets coupled together, an overprovision of van space, though it was not unusual to see them strengthened with a full third.  There is still no RTR full third non-gangwayed GW coach unless you count the Railroad 'shorty' clerestory, which is the wrong length and does not represent any particular prototype.  

Edited by The Johnster
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Thanks Jason.  Now all I need is evidence of one running in the Tondu valleys in the 50s; actually, allocated to Newport Division will do me!

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Hi All,

 

This has probably been covered before here but I thought I would ask just in case. I am intending on modelling an adaptation of Princess Risborough and Thame and I know Large Prairies (51xx and 61xx) were a common sight on this line with suburban trains (I assume often with these sets) due to the proximity to Oxford and Aylesbury. I have the 4 car set of the Birmingham Division that was released, was there an Oxford Division set that I could renumber it to to make it more appropriate for the layout. If so, where would be the best place to get transfers from?

 

Regards Connor 

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2 hours ago, CCGWR said:

where would be the best place to get transfers from?

 

Regards Connor 

Railtec is always my first choice. 

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6 hours ago, CCGWR said:

Hi All,

 

This has probably been covered before here but I thought I would ask just in case. I am intending on modelling an adaptation of Princess Risborough and Thame and I know Large Prairies (51xx and 61xx) were a common sight on this line with suburban trains (I assume often with these sets) due to the proximity to Oxford and Aylesbury. I have the 4 car set of the Birmingham Division that was released, was there an Oxford Division set that I could renumber it to to make it more appropriate for the layout. If so, where would be the best place to get transfers from?

 

Regards Connor 

 

You may be interested in my Sheet BL171; the instruction / key sheet is below; (the numbers are, of course, provided in duplicate where the Diagram information is shown on the key).

 

Key-BL171.jpg.8a245b0d712458e4077ce43cccebc8db.jpg

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

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4 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

You may be interested in my Sheet BL171; the instruction / key sheet is below; (the numbers are, of course, provided in duplicate where the Diagram information is shown on the key).

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_11/Key-BL171.jpg.8a245b0d712458e4077ce43cccebc8db.jpg

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.

https://www.cctrans.org.uk/products.htm

Thanks so much John, however, I am modelling pre-nationalisation, is there a chance that is possible with your expertise?

 

Connor

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1 minute ago, CCGWR said:

Thanks so much John, however, I am modelling pre-nationalisation, is there a chance that is possible with your expertise?

 

Connor

 

Connor,

 

A a retired 'one-man-band', I have to limit the demands on my time that supplying transfers makes.

 

For that reason, I now limit new sheets to the BR 1948 - 68 period - sorry.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

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47 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Connor,

 

A a retired 'one-man-band', I have to limit the demands on my time that supplying transfers makes.

 

For that reason, I now limit new sheets to the BR 1948 - 68 period - sorry.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

No Worries John, completely understand.

 

Connor

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9 hours ago, CCGWR said:

Hi All,

 

This has probably been covered before here but I thought I would ask just in case. I am intending on modelling an adaptation of Princess Risborough and Thame and I know Large Prairies (51xx and 61xx) were a common sight on this line with suburban trains (I assume often with these sets) due to the proximity to Oxford and Aylesbury. I have the 4 car set of the Birmingham Division that was released, was there an Oxford Division set that I could renumber it to to make it more appropriate for the layout. If so, where would be the best place to get transfers from?

 

Regards Connor 

 

I don't think there was an Oxford Division, or District for that matter.  Sorry!

 

Chris

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Oxford, AFAIK, was part of the London Division, and London Division allocated Hornby Collett Suburbans will be perfect for Princes Risborough/Thame.  I'd expect 61xx to outnumber 5101s here; they were a variant for the London Division suburban services with a higher boiler pressure to enable faster acceleration on the busy network to preserve headways.  There is almost no visual difference between a 5101 or a 61xx beyond the usual variations in safety valve covers and liveries, but 61xx carried the trip cock mechanism to work over London Transport widened lines and parts of the Paddington throat.

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4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Oxford, AFAIK, was part of the London Division, and London Division allocated Hornby Collett Suburbans will be perfect for Princes Risborough/Thame.  I'd expect 61xx to outnumber 5101s here; they were a variant for the London Division suburban services with a higher boiler pressure to enable faster acceleration on the busy network to preserve headways.  There is almost no visual difference between a 5101 or a 61xx beyond the usual variations in safety valve covers and liveries, but 61xx carried the trip cock mechanism to work over London Transport widened lines and parts of the Paddington throat.

Fascinating, would have thought Oxford would have had a division but I guess the proximity to London makes sense to be within the London Division. Does anyone know the appropriate coach numbers for these sets?

 

Connor

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Divisions were London, Bristol, Newton Abbott (I think), Newport, Swansea, Birmingham, and Chester.  I'm sure that appropriate London Division numbers can be supplied by someone of greater erudition in such matters here.  Transfers are available from HMRS as a GW loco and coach lettering sheet; I don't think Railtec cover the necessary period.  Sadly, these are 0-9 numerals that have to be individually applied, not made up numbers, but that at least allows you to correctly number any London area set you like!

 

Note that the coaches run in BT-C-C-BT formation with the first class in the centre of the set and the brake ends outwards, and are 'handed', in that the ventilators are in line between each BT and C, but on the opposite side of the coach for the other C and BT.  Nobody knows why this is despite considerable discussion of the matter earlier in the thread...

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Five of these sets were allocated initially to the London Division:

 

24   4975, 6370, 6376, 4976

25   4977, 6387, 6388, 4978.  This one was sent to Cardiff during the war

26   4979, 6390, 6416, 4980

27   4981, 6435, 6458, 4982

28   4983, 6468, 6469, 4984

 

Chris 

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4 hours ago, chrisf said:

Five of these sets were allocated initially to the London Division:

 

24   4975, 6370, 6376, 4976

25   4977, 6387, 6388, 4978.  This one was sent to Cardiff during the war

26   4979, 6390, 6416, 4980

27   4981, 6435, 6458, 4982

28   4983, 6468, 6469, 4984

 

Chris 

Hi Chris, where do you find this information, please? I am interested in Merthyr- based autocoaches, etc; but don’t know where to easily (emphasise, easily) the info. Dai Davies

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Bore da Dai!  I'm glad of something to take my mind off burnt koalas today.

 

It's not easy.  Much of what I know was culled from the pages of the Railway Observer.  Before his book on GWR coaches was published the late Michael Harris had a long running series in Railway World in the 1960s.  From those two sources it is possible to collate such information as exists, suppemented by photographs and in particular the RCTS collection.  It's not unlike putting together a jigsaw where all the pieces are the same shape and size.  The proper way of doing it, I suppose, would be to consult the rolling stock registers, wherever they may be.  John Lewis, author of the two books on auto trailers, knows his way round the system but is not infallible.  Much was not recorded.  John produced a list of London sets for a friend who is modelling Loudwater but it covers only the period up to the outbreak of WW2, when a state of flux prevailed.  I have more than a passing interest in the Cardiff Valleys, where substantial remarshalling took place ahead of the interval service introduced in September 1953 and continued for the next 10 years.  List?  What list?

 

By comparison, auto trailers are relatively easy to trace.  There are snippets in John Lewis's books and there are photographs.  Rightly or wrongly I associate Merthyr with the A27 type because I have seen pics of such things stabled at Merthyr.  The Merthyr - Abergavenny service was operated by autos from 1954 till it ended in 1958 and there was also the Hirwaun and Pontsticill services.   There was some inter-working between the three branches.  Before 1953 things were almost certainly different and I have a vague recollection that autos worked from Merthyr to Cardiff via the line through Aberfan which closed abruptly around 1951.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Chris

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2 minutes ago, chrisf said:

Bore da Dai!  I'm glad of something to take my mind off burnt koalas today.

 

It's not easy.  Much of what I know was culled from the pages of the Railway Observer.  Before his book on GWR coaches was published the late Michael Harris had a long running series in Railway World in the 1960s.  From those two sources it is possible to collate such information as exists, suppemented by photographs and in particular the RCTS collection.  It's not unlike putting together a jigsaw where all the pieces are the same shape and size.  The proper way of doing it, I suppose, would be to consult the rolling stock registers, wherever they may be.  John Lewis, author of the two books on auto trailers, knows his way round the system but is not infallible.  Much was not recorded.  John produced a list of London sets for a friend who is modelling Loudwater but it covers only the period up to the outbreak of WW2, when a state of flux prevailed.  I have more than a passing interest in the Cardiff Valleys, where substantial remarshalling took place ahead of the interval service introduced in September 1953 and continued for the next 10 years.  List?  What list?

 

By comparison, auto trailers are relatively easy to trace.  There are snippets in John Lewis's books and there are photographs.  Rightly or wrongly I associate Merthyr with the A27 type because I have seen pics of such things stabled at Merthyr.  The Merthyr - Abergavenny service was operated by autos from 1954 till it ended in 1958 and there was also the Hirwaun and Pontsticill services.   There was some inter-working between the three branches.  Before 1953 things were almost certainly different and I have a vague recollection that autos worked from Merthyr to Cardiff via the line through Aberfan which closed abruptly around 1951.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Chris

Yes, it does; and many thanks. Dai

ps. My brother in law had a koala in his garden, the first he had seen in over 30 years there. Whether it was escaping fires, he thinks not.

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On 26/11/2019 at 17:00, chrisf said:

Five of these sets were allocated initially to the London Division:

 

24   4975, 6370, 6376, 4976

25   4977, 6387, 6388, 4978.  This one was sent to Cardiff during the war

26   4979, 6390, 6416, 4980

27   4981, 6435, 6458, 4982

28   4983, 6468, 6469, 4984

 

Chris 

Thank you so much!

 

Connor

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On 26/11/2019 at 12:04, 88D said:

ps. My brother in law had a koala in his garden, the first he had seen in over 30 years there. Whether it was escaping fires, he thinks not.

Glad to hear the little guy is safe and well!  And the koala...

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On 26/11/2019 at 12:04, 88D said:

My brother in law had a koala in his garden, the first he had seen in over 30 years there.

They are pretty rare in wales.

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2 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

They are pretty rare in wales.

But not in New South Wales!

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Very common in the past in Wales.  We used to have hundreds of koala mines.

 

Oh, hang on a minute...

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On 26/11/2019 at 06:30, chrisf said:

Five of these sets were allocated initially to the London Division:

 

24   4975, 6370, 6376, 4976

25   4977, 6387, 6388, 4978.  This one was sent to Cardiff during the war

26   4979, 6390, 6416, 4980

27   4981, 6435, 6458, 4982

28   4983, 6468, 6469, 4984

 

Chris 

 

Ah well, I was only out by 20 in the number I made up when requesting custom set of transfers for the set ends then...

 

(Am adding an extra third to the set anyway as I think has been discussed was done post war.)

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