RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 Not expert on Chester practice, but in South Wales similar coaches were hauled by 56xx, rebuilt Taff Vale A and Rhymney P 0-6-2Ts, and BR standard Class 3MT prairies as well as 5101 large prairies. I have seen a photo of a 2251 hauling 2 5 coach sets through Cogan on an excursion from the Monmouthshire valleys but this was not typical practice. London area outer suburban work might produce tender locos such as Halls. Bit of a question mark of these particular diagrams in South Wales, but not enough to stop me buying a couple! Looks as if a passable 10 compartment all 3rd could be fairly easily cut and shut from a pair of composites. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 Can anyone confirm are the BR versions in crimson or maroon livery? I suspect they are in crimson livery from the artwork. Some may have been turned out between 1956 and 1958 in unlined maroon, but with all withdrawn by the end of 1960 I doubt very much that many managed to be in service in lined maroon; I certainly cannot remember the similar South Wales coaches in any other livery than crimson, but I was only a child then and would not swear to it now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 These were the coaches of childhood.In the late 40’s in chocolate & cream (By then fairly grubby) on trips to Cardiff via Abercynon.Later in maroon with ex TVR A ,56XX,41/51XX then Standard 82XXX..Bring on a great nostalgia wallow,complete with horsehair seats and lean-out-of-the-window smuts in the eye as you ran into Cardiff General over the main line to spot what was at Platform 2 on its way to exotic places like Paddington or Bristol. You're just a showoff...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 You're just a showoff...... Of course I am...lovely though.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn-on-the-platform Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) No. Three sets were involved on that sad day. One comprised Hawksworth E167 BC 6276, long BR standard second 46041 and Hawksworth C83 second 1841. Another was formed of Hawksworth D132 brake second 417, Hawksworth C83 second 2706 and Hawksworth E167 brake composite 7393. A third was made up of Collett E147 brake composite 6837, Hawksworth C83 third 2642 and Collett C66 second 4289, later augmented by Hawksworth E167 brake composite 7087 and Hawksworth C82 corridor second 831. Thanks so much for the reply Chris! I wonder if all your answers to this thread would be enough to get you an honorary degree at the University of Swindon? Interesting that three coaching sets were comprised of so many different types of carriage. Edit: A sad day indeed, I am only 27 so can only see what remains, but on any given day in Moretonhampstead, I always feel that its a great shame that a 57xx or similar isn't simmering away down the hill in the station, waiting to take its next happy load of passengers back to Newton Abbott/Heathfield, or even to the Lustleigh show! Edited January 7, 2019 by Torn-on-the-platform Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2019 Jon Some London sets worked beyond Oxford to Banbury and beyond but whether any Birmingham sets worked south of Oxford I am afraid I do not know. In any case, be careful of your period. From 1940 onwards the London sets were gradually reformed as five coach sets, known as Q sets, and from 1952 or thereabouts the Birmingham division moved to E sets, formed third, brake third, composite. Often these were made by diividing a four coach set into two and adding a third of a different type. Chris In the early 1950s there was one working with a London 5 coach set which did an evening Birmingham District working of Oxford - Banbury, Banbury - Leamington, Leamington - Birmingham. The following morning it did Birmingham - Leamington, Leamington - Oxford, Oxford - Didcot, then Didcot - Paddington. In the notice I have been reading I couldn't find Birmingham Non-corridor sets getting past the Oxford area or Princes Risborough, but they appear to have been booked on the Wellington - Market Drayton - Crewe service as well as to Cheltenham and Hereford. Most of the longer workings possibly being done in a series of short hops then wait for the next express to pass? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 The S. Wales brake coaches also had one less compartment than these I think. Will have to get my scratchbuilt set finished before these hit the shelves. At least they are not likely to do the 1927 livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Looks as if a passable 10 compartment all 3rd could be fairly easily cut and shut from a pair of composites. Perhaps you mean 9 compartment. At least they existed ... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) I'm in the habit of adding things I've researched to spreadsheets. I'm afraid I've forgotten the source of my spreadsheet pasted below. It was either kindly provided by an RMWebber or I've transcribed, any errors down to me, it from the GWRJ however I thought it would be useful to add he1re. I think GWRJ 5 has an excellent article on these coaches. Happy to attribute source if someone knows1 David Edited January 7, 2019 by Clearwater 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synch Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 So these were marshaled in sets of 4, were multiple sets put together depending on the service? I'm mainly interested in GC/GW joint line services and don't know a huge amount about GWR coaches! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 So these were marshaled in sets of 4, were multiple sets put together depending on the service? I'm mainly interested in GC/GW joint line services and don't know a huge amount about GWR coaches! I think the sets were strengthened on an ad hoc basis with other coaches rather than two sets coupled together. However, I think these units were used for the summer Saturday services. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I apologize if I have missed some 'invisible' ink, but when were these coaches first built? Is the shirt button livery the one they were first turned out in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Gough Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I apologize if I have missed some 'invisible' ink, but when were these coaches first built? Is the shirt button livery the one they were first turned out in? 1927.No - the double shield crest with 'GWR' in gold letters above. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinian Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Actual first sets were in plain choc and cream with Garter crest an supporters of the official photographs are to be believed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted January 7, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2019 Silly questions time: Did any of these get cascaded onto general services around the Bournemouth area towards the ends of their lives? Had they all been withdrawn by 1961? I ask because I wonder if a few might have appeared in the rakes that got to that area on services from Oxford or Weymouth in my chosen timeframe (c. 1961). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 What locos, if any, other than large prairies were used to haul these 4 coach sets? I am most interested in Chester 1947 Regards from Vancouver John 43XX Mogul 2-6-0s were common at Chester. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I apologize if I have missed some 'invisible' ink, but when were these coaches first built? Is the shirt button livery the one they were first turned out in? 1927. First batch came out with Garter crest to bodyside. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) On the whole Hornby/Dapol thing, are these the same diagram as Lionheart make in 7mm? Have they missed a trick by not shrinking to 4mm? David Not the same - the Dapol/Lionheart set is d109 and e141. Slightly different overall length, Guard’s doors, grab handles, spacing of compartments and the positioning of the 1st class section but basically similar. I only know this as I’ve been pouring through Russell to see what corridor stock I could convert the Lionheart ones into! But doesn’t alter that Dapol could have shrunk theirs theoretically! Edited January 8, 2019 by Hal Nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I apologize if I have missed some 'invisible' ink, but when were these coaches first built? Is the shirt button livery the one they were first turned out in? 1927. No - the double shield crest with 'GWR' in gold letters above. Actual first sets were in plain choc and cream with Garter crest an supporters of the official photographs are to be believed. 1927. First batch came out with Garter crest to bodyside. Thanks for the inputs. These coaches look really nice. I'll look forward to an earlier livery than the shirt-button.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2019 These carriages look great - 2019 looks to be an expensive year at Henley :-) Two sets of carriages, plus a couple of 61xx Thank you Hornby. Someone earlier asked about the possibility of the sets getting to Bournemouth - I would say unlikely - It would have to be an S & D service which by the time of these carriages would have been LMS worked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 These carriages look great - 2019 looks to be an expensive year at Henley :-) Two sets of carriages, plus a couple of 61xx Thank you Hornby. Someone earlier asked about the possibility of the sets getting to Bournemouth - I would say unlikely - It would have to be an S & D service which by the time of these carriages would have been LMS worked. BUT..... there is published photographs, taken in the 1930's, of TWO sets of these non corridors on an excursion to Bournemouth from the Midlands with a Hall at the front. 200 miles without a toilet! Mike Wiltshire 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
217 RIVER FLESK Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 So from reading through the above comments, would I be correct in thinking that these carriages wouldn't have been seen down in Somerset / Devon, bar perhaps a one off working on an excursion? (Period 1950s) My heart hopes that they might have appeared, but my wallet has a differing view Cheers, Mike C 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2019 BUT..... there is published photographs, taken in the 1930's, of TWO sets of these non corridors on an excursion to Bournemouth from the Midlands with a Hall at the front. 200 miles without a toilet! Mike Wiltshire Blimey! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clearwater Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 BUT..... there is published photographs, taken in the 1930's, of TWO sets of these non corridors on an excursion to Bournemouth from the Midlands with a Hall at the front. 200 miles without a toilet! Mike Wiltshire I’m dredging my memory banks for which book that’s in- I don’t think it’s in a Geen album is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted January 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2019 BUT..... there is published photographs, taken in the 1930's, of TWO sets of these non corridors on an excursion to Bournemouth from the Midlands with a Hall at the front. 200 miles without a toilet! Mike Wiltshire The reference is ‘Window On The Great Western ...An Album Of Everday Scenes From The 1930’s & 40’s’ by MF Yarwood. On page 27 there is a photo of 4993 Dalton Hall taken at Hinton Admiral hauling a 12 coach train with seats for over 850 passengers reporting number 079.formed of 3 Birmingham Division sets. A useful book in many ways this.Enjoy... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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