Hornby - New tooling - 57' Bow-ended suburban coaches

[chris45lsw]

Thanks for this clarification, Chris; it's a complex subject!  I'm currently half way through building a Comet flatend Collett 55 foot 3rd, diagram C65/75, which has 9' plate bogies; I was hitherto unaware of the previous 9' fishbelly bowenders!  Presumably the Hawksworths shared underframes and bogies with the gangwayed stock, but they are academic as AFAIK nobody even makes kits for them.

 

I will be building a Comet flatended B set as the Airfix B set I have is not correct for my location (central Glamorgan valleys from Bridgend) and needs to be retired.  The new Hornby coaches are not strictly accurate either, but are a less unlikely Rule 1 solution than the Airfix B set.  The Comet coaches are correct, and I will be indulging in an A44 'cyclops' auto trailer as well.  

I presume you mean C66/C75 (C65 was a TK).  Although they had the same linear dimensions, C75 had deeper windows than C66 so I imagine the Comet sides represent one or the other whatever 'it says on the tin'!

 

Chris KT

[chrisf]

I've said elsewhere, possibly using invisible ink, that the Comet kit is a hybrid.  The sides are those of a C66 [how many more times, Johnster?] but the ends and body profile belong to the C75.  If you can make, or have made for you, accurate ends - as near as dammit vertical above the waist - and flatten and remake the turnunder on the sides, an accurate model can be made.  I hope I live long enough to test this hypothesis for myself.  The task of deepening the windows to make them accurate for the C75 must be formidable.

 

Chris

[The Johnster]

My apologies, Chris, you are of course right, I am continuing a senior moment into a senior period, and you have indeed pointed this out before.  To be fair to Comet it states C66/C75 on the box.  At least I have progressed from calling it a C55; no idea where I got that from!  I am building mine with the kit parts according to the instructions and 'Building Coaches The Comet Way', as this is my first brass kit for many years and hence a bit of a learning curve, and thus the model will be a hybrid, but I have not yet decided what to number it.  This will depend ultimately on the roof's rain strips which Comet point out are the main visual difference between the diagrams.  Your comment about bodyside curves and end profiles is leading me to the conclusion that the coach will be best finished as a C66 with the wrong body profile; my view is that the window outline is more important to get right on this model

 

I am on the lookout for one converted to intermediate auto trailer and based at Tondu, but am not sure such a thing actually existed.  I have photo evidence of the 'cyclops' brake 3rds in the Tondu valleys, early enough to be in crimson livery, but not the intermediates, and I don't really know which profile the Tondu cyclops' were converted from; of course it may have been both.  As you know I am planning the 'cheat' of numbering it as an ordinary coach on one side and an intermediate trailer on the other. If I cannot find definitive information I will plough on regardless under Rule 1.

[gwrrob]

Seen at the Toyfair today. Apparently arriving next week. BR versions to follow.

 

Paul

 

Shirt button livery too, I'd missed that.

[chrisf]

Strictly speaking, folks, the posts about C66/75 belong in the "Johnster's Comet Colletts" thread.  I am as guilty as others to posting in the wrong place!

 

Chris

Edited January 23, 2019 by chrisf

[Clearwater]

Following up the discussion on strengthening and use of these sets, there's an interesting article by `John Copsey in vol 12 of the GWRJ detailing a 1946 summer Saturday service from snow hill to `Cardiff. A 15(!) coach service hauled by a Star incorporating Birmingham set 38 (D98 4946, E131 6233, 6231 D98 4945) alongside various other Corridor stock.

 

David

[Neal Ball]

Seen at the Toyfair today. Apparently arriving next week. BR versions to follow.

Paul

Given your post was 22nd Jan, presumably they will be with us in days....... must be about to arrive at Felixstowe or Southampton any moment now!

 

These will look great pulling into Henley on Thames

[9402 Fredrick]

I emailed Hornby about these and they said end of this month/earlt next month.

[Neal Ball]

That would seem to indicate they are already on the boat. 

[tomparryharry]

Late into Felixstowe apparently. The harbour authorities are holding the ship, pending the dispersal of froth.  Coastguard officials have quoted: "There appears to be a large accumulation of froth appearing near the harbour entrance. We haven't seen this much froth since the 8-wheel tank incidence some 5 years ago."

Captain Pugwash.

[The Johnster]

Was at Lord & Butler's day before yesterday and asked Peter to order a couple of BR carmines for me; he said he's expecting stock in March and that there will be a good supply; no need to order and he'll 'put them aside' for me.  Hornby are clearly going in all guns blazing with the new stuff; good for them!

If the GW versions are on the boat delayed by froth at Felixtowe (!), they must have been already produced and being packed when the announcement was made; this is a magnificent performance in terms of keeping the project under wraps and could presumably not have been achieved had the production taken place in the UK!

Edited February 2, 2019 by The Johnster

[Welchester]

The GW versions are starting to appear on the Bay of E. Are they here already?

[tomparryharry]

Extreme caution is required when buying via 'bay. Like others, I buzzed over there, to find lots & lots of models on sale & display. Closer inspection revealed that by & large, they are the corridor models, not our suburban desires.

 

Caveat Emptor: Let the buyer beware! Make sure you are sure of what you're buying!  It's an expensive enough game without being led astray. Mention anything Western, and dodgy 'Arthur-Daley' like characters will infest the market like never before. Check the Hornby 'R' number before you hand over the moolah.

 

It's the same with panniers & 56xx. Mr Daley will tell you :- "Corr, what a nice little runner, yours for £20 guvn'r" , whereas what you're buying is a 20 year Mainline model....

 

Enjoy your modelling, but watch your wallet....

 

Ian.

[Hilux5972]

I’ve seen a listing on eBay that states, these coaches will be ordered and sent “when they arrive in the country”. Not exactly something I’d be willing to take a gamble on! 

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

Extreme caution is required when buying via 'bay. Like others, I buzzed over there, to find lots & lots of models on sale & display. Closer inspection revealed that by & large, they are the corridor models, not our suburban desires.

 

Caveat Emptor: Let the buyer beware! Make sure you are sure of what you're buying!  It's an expensive enough game without being led astray. Mention anything Western, and dodgy 'Arthur-Daley' like characters will infest the market like never before. Check the Hornby 'R' number before you hand over the moolah.

 

It's the same with panniers & 56xx. Mr Daley will tell you :- "Corr, what a nice little runner, yours for £20 guvn'r" , whereas what you're buying is a 20 year Mainline model....

 

Enjoy your modelling, but watch your wallet....

 

Ian.

Couldn't have put it better myself, which is why I do not recommend 'Bay as a source of models to beginners; you need to have a bit of an idea what you are doing!  An Arthur Daley type will always claim that he acted in good faith and genuinely thought his Mainline 56xx was a Bachmann.  A good general guide for newbies is to familiarise yourself with the appearance of an NEM tension lock coupler, as it's a fair bet that any model fitted with these will be reasonably recent spec.  Avoid everything else unless you are specifically looking for it; some Mainlines are good enough as body donors but the mechs are always suspect.  

 

I actually have 2 Mainline mechs in working condition, a 57xx and a 56xx, but the 56xx is very worn and on borrowed time with an axle channel about to wear through, and in any case the Bachmann replacements are superior and much quieter performers.  

 

I got burned in a small way myself last year, with an 'as new' 56xx.  This model was in black BR unicycling lion livery but I should have spotted that the safety valve cover and chimney cap were painted over.  It turned out to have been sprayed black rather badly, with the buffer beams and spectacle plates oversprayed and bunker lamp irons missing.  The boiler handrail was bent on the side that did not show in the 'Bay photo as well.  I suspect it's provenance was that of a model returned to a dealer as faulty or damaged, but not supplied to him by Bachmann in the normal way, so a bit dodgy to start with; it had originally been in late G W R initials livery and had had unicycling lion transfers applied.

 

It was, and is, a good runner and was cheap, and I've been able to easily rectify the problems with it, so I'm happy enough but I won't be having anything from that particular dealer again, but a newbie might have been unable to do the necessary work to bring it up to scratch.

 

Caveat Emptor indeed!

Edited February 4, 2019 by The Johnster

[57xx]

On 01/02/2019 at 15:47, 9402 Fredrick said:

I emailed Hornby about these and they said end of this month/earlt next month.

 

Is that for all variants?

[9402 Fredrick]

43 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

Is that for all variants?

I emailed the about the GWR liveried ones, but from the coming soon section, it looks loke it also included the BR variants too.

[The Johnster]

BR variants as well, yay!  My wallet is getting nervous...

[sdh-stbriavels]

Hello

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but I'm looking for some guidance.

 

I want to change the GWR version from shirtbutton to the 'GWR and crest' livery (pre 1934). Is it as simple as removing the shirtbutton and adding GWR / crest, or are there additional things I would need to do?

 

Thanks in anticipation

[M.I.B]

With respect to the Hornby Part numbers - what is the difference between  R4877 A and  R 4877?

 

 

And why haven't these been made up into 4 coach packs?

 

Thanks.

[The Fatadder]

1 hour ago, sdh-stbriavels said:

Hello

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but I'm looking for some guidance.

 

I want to change the GWR version from shirtbutton to the 'GWR and crest' livery (pre 1934). Is it as simple as removing the shirtbutton and adding GWR / crest, or are there additional things I would need to do?

 

Thanks in anticipation

 

While it's not my period, I think I am right in thinking that shirt button is singled lined while the earlier livery had double lining (as per the post war livery)

[gwrrob]

2 hours ago, M.I.B said:

With respect to the Hornby Part numbers - what is the difference between  R4877 A and  R 4877?

 

Just the running numbers I think.

[9402 Fredrick]

5 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Just the running numbers I think.

That and the ones with A after the product number I think are the ones that represent the London suburban service ones.

[The Johnster]

I am starting to really look forward to these; I will be buying a carmine liveried BS and a C, and as they are to represent refugees from a broken up set will be chosen to deliberately not match any set to emphasise the point; they will not represent any vehicles that actually ran in South Wales but are there under the authority of Rule 1.  I can justify this on the '10%' rule; in order to work services on my Cwmdimbath branch Tondu would have had to have about 10% more stock than it actually had.  This equates to another 5 locos on the books; I don't know as much about coaches., but they'd have needed more than they had. 

 

My existing passenger stock is (with the exception of a Bachmann A38) entirely Airfix derived, a B set and several A28/30 auto trailers.  One of the trailers is numbered for a known Tondu allocation, so I am pushing Rule 1 a bit with the passenger stock.  The new Hornbys will enable the old incorrect B set to be withdrawn; they are to be eventually be replaced with Comet D117s, and their bogies can be used in an A27 conversion and possibly under a K's A31 which is my next project following the completion of a Comet C66/75 all third (I've a photo of one of these at Abergwynfi).  The A31 will be a Newport Division allocation; I have a photo of one of these in a train approaching Abergwynfi as well but no idea of the number!

 

So my passenger stock overall is very much a work in progress both in terms of Tondu prototypes and in general standards, and the arrival of the Hornbys will cascade several projects into action!

[M.I.B]

2 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

 

While it's not my period, I think I am right in thinking that shirt button is singled lined while the earlier livery had double lining (as per the post war livery)

 

I believe that you are.

 

Option 1 - change the logo, leave the lining - and weather liberally - after all these were in Suburban service - lots of smog and grot - especially post war with few carriage cleaners etc.

 

Option 2 - Change the logo and stand further away..............