Heater or dehumidifier for my garage?

[TEAMYAKIMA]

I have just moved house and have a concrete garage to store my exhibition layout.

 

I have sealed all possible gaps around the roof/door/windows and had a professional standard end wall with door built - see photo

 

 

So now do buy a heater with thermostat or dehumidifier?

[chris p bacon]

No matter how much heat you put into a building like that, it will make no difference as there isn't insulation to retain it. The dehumidifier will be powering away trying to dry it out but for the same reason it won't make any difference.

 

I admit it's not much help, but there are limited options with sectional buildings such as these unless they are updated with a second insulated skin and roof.

[njee20]

Also if you seal every single gap there’ll be no ventilation, and you’re asking for damp.

 

I’ve got a conventional single skin garage which has some loft insulation and insulation backed plasterboard on the walls, and find a dehumidifier slightly more effective, and cheaper to run.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

No matter how much heat you put into a building like that, it will make no difference as there isn't insulation to retain it. The dehumidifier will be powering away trying to dry it out but for the same reason it won't make any difference.

 

I admit it's not much help, but there are limited options with sectional buildings such as these unless they are updated with a second insulated skin and roof.

 

Thanks.  A second skin is an option later down the line but for the next few weeks I am only storing the layout and want to prevent as much damage as possible. For the first few days he fiddle yard boards were out in the open just under a roof to keep the rain off - this must be better than that - hopefully!

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Also if you seal every single gap there’ll be no ventilation, and you’re asking for damp.

 

I’ve got a conventional single skin garage which has some loft insulation and insulation backed plasterboard on the walls, and find a dehumidifier slightly more effective, and cheaper to run.

 

 

I've seen dehumidifiers from about £15 to £400 - any recommendations please?

[5 C]

I've seen dehumidifiers from about £15 to £400 - any recommendations please?

 

My first domestic dehumidifier was an Ebac. British-made and based on the positive experience of a similar model used by my parents. It soldiered on for nearly twenty years without issue until it finally expired.

 

Replacing it with another Ebac therefore appeared a no brainer. Unfortunately, the quality seemed to have deteriorated in that time. The new one was significantly noisier than the one it replaced and was prone to springing leaks of extracted water all over the carpet. After the third replacement unit in as many months I gave up and asked for a refund.

 

It was replaced with a De Longhi which I haven't experienced any problems with.

[dhjgreen]

I use an Ecoair DD128 (about £160) which keeps my garage under 55% winter and summer.  I modified the holding tank to drain outside as it fills in less than a week when it is damp.

 

The unit is a desiccating dehumidifier as the the compressor type stop working at low temperatures.  I use the unit in economy mode and the small amount of heat it produces mostly keeps the garage above freezing.

[TEAMYAKIMA]

I use an Ecoair DD128 (about £160) which keeps my garage under 55% winter and summer.  

 

Please forgive my ignorance of such matters, but is there the equivalent of a thermometer to show me the humidity in the garage? 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Looking at the picture in the O.P., the wall looks like unpainted wood. If you haven't done so already, it would be a god idea to get it painted...

 

A device that measures humidity is called a hygrometer. Not sure what current technology provides, but you used to have to whirl them round and round to take a reading!

[njee20]

You get digital hygrometers now, most desktop weather stations will have them, or you can get smart ones if you’re into such things and want to check remotely.

 

I’ve also got an Ecoair DD122, which I think is just a slightly older version of the 128. It’s excellent though.

[Nearholmer]

Without insulation and trickle ventilation, you are in grave danger of setting out to dehumidify or heat the entire universe.

 

You may be better not attempting either, and letting it get on with it.

 

I’m always surprised by how very well things get on in my shed, which is weatherproof but by no means sealed. With what amounts to free ventilation there isn’t even much surface rusting of things like garden tools, and seed packets seem to last without going soggy or crumbling.

 

I left an unfinished layout in the shed for years upon years, and it didn’t really suffer at all - scenery might suffer, but plywood egg-crate base-boards with copperclad track didn’t.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Nearholmer

[dhjgreen]

Please forgive my ignorance of such matters, but is there the equivalent of a thermometer to show me the humidity in the garage?

 

I have a number these in various places

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07CCZM69Y/ref=dp_prsubs_2

I have a number of card kits that I was worried about which is why I got the dehumidifier. It stops mould growth too so the homegrown garlic and onions go in there too.

 

Edit: the vice stopped rusting too.

Edited December 24, 2018 by dhjgreen

[Stentor]

I can recommend the EcoAir DD322 Desiccant Dehumidifier.

 

Not cheap at £230 from Amazon but stunningly effective, mine has been used every day for the last 3 years and is as good as the day I bought it.

 

You can use it with its 10l tank or more relevant for this situation it comes with a pipe to drain the water directly to the outside.

 

//Simon

[Enterprisingwestern]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KAIR-RECOVERY-SILENT-EXTRACTOR-ANTI-CONDENSATION/dp/B004VW3RGW

 

As i have mentioned elsewhere before, these are the piece of kit to go for.

 

Mike.

[hayfield]

Presumably if you are expelling moist air then it will be replaced by air from outside, which no doubt will also be cold and damp. Sadly the wrong time of year not to have insulation in an outside shed

 

I planned to have an outside workshop/railway room when we moved, when I looked into the cost we decided to increase the size of our planned extension as the costs were much the same, but the heating bill is a fraction of what it would have been, even I had built a fully insulated shed.

 

In my previous house we had an attached garage, I fully insulated it and had no damp issues over two winters. As it was a temporary solution I used electric heaters which were expensive to run, had I been staying there I would have added it to our central heating system 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Presumably if you are expelling moist air then it will be replaced by air from outside, which no doubt will also be cold and damp. Sadly the wrong time of year not to have insulation in an outside shed

 

Hence the reason for my post.

 

Mike.

[rab]

As a matter of interest, what is the ideal humidity,

and what are the acceptable variations from the ideal.

[jonhall]

We have a couple of store sheds (similar size to your garage) at work, both were a bit susceptible to condensation forming on roof and walls, which made everything damp and caused cardboard to go mouldy, we have a couple of small greenhouse tubular heaters out there now and that's solved that problem- they won't heat to comfortable, but it does mean the difference between a +ve and -ve temp.

 

https://www.greenhousepeople.co.uk/products/8061/610mm-tubular-heater-80w-green-with-thermostat/

 

 

Jon

[brianusa]

We have a similar sized shed originally to house a rider lawn mower.  Never really worked as it was subject to mould and damp all year, no doubt a lot to do with our location in the PNW and under trees, at the bottom of our garden.  Certainly wouldn't keep anything like our trains in one!

 

Merry Christmas.

Brian.

[hayfield]

Brian

 

At this time of the year there is a lot of moisture about, the shed will protect its contents from the worst of it but damp penetrates most areas. Just look at houses which have been left unoccupied. I think we have got far more aware of dampness as we insulate our houses and try and keep all rooms warm. As a child we had no heating upstairs, had to light a fire when we got up, single glazed and had air bricks to aid the open fires etc. My old garage ended up far more insulated than the house I was born in, let alone warmer

[davetheroad]

I have a single skinned garage which is insulated including moisture barriers and the humidity in there was over 85%. A recently mostly card constructed station canopy warped so I bought a Ecoair DD! Classic MK5 desiccating humidifier from amazon. I have been running it foe a week or so and for the last few days 24 hours a day in Eco mode. I also have a watterladen thermometer/hygrometer, also from amazon. Daily water extraction starter at 1. 2 litres and has dropped over 4 days to 0.7L The cost per day has dropped from 60p to 51.5p The relative humidity has varied between 47% and 51%.

 

It appears the Ecoair is sucking more moisture out of the air than is being added. There is a lot of wood, unsealed plasterboard, cardboard etc in there and this only releases its excess moisture slowly so eventually the water extracted should stabilise as the only source is atmospheric through the trickle ventilation or opening the door and me breathing. When this happens I can experiment with running the unit for less than a day. My target was maintaining the humidity below 60%

 

Desiccating humidifiers are best for cold rooms as thy work down to 1C 

 

Check out Meaco  dehumidifiers as well

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post replies here.

 

There is a regular damp patch along the line where the wall joins that base and my builder says that the base was built without a damp course and so he is recommending adding one.

 

I must say that several of these options discussed in this thread are more expensive than I had expected. Just to clarify, this is just storage - I will not be working on the layout or operating it in this garage and so in normal circumstances it might stay closed/locked for 3 or 4 months at a time - ie between exhibitions. I now see that I might need to visit regularly to deal with the dehumidifiers. I was originally thinking I just needed to keep the temperature above zero.

 

Does this being used purely as storage  change the advice - ie make cheaper options possible?

 

Apologies for my lack of knowledge in this matter

Edited December 26, 2018 by TEAMYAKIMA

[newbryford]

How llarge is the layout when packed?

Rather than investing in insulation/dehumidifier/heater etc.

It may be worth storing it in many of the 24 hour access units that are quite common these days - such as this lot.

 

https://www.storefirst.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiAx4fhBRB6EiwA3cV4KpfljnUnb4SXY6dl6SdPJ9qOVVCDv-RN54hbVqj64jEWDmKvCGHXvBoCQD8QAvD_BwE

 

My Mrs has some of her volunteer "stuff" in one and it's very good.

Edited December 25, 2018 by newbryford

[Neil]

Dehumidifier, Ebac and get a big one. I used to live in a converted chapel and own/run a couple of stone built holiday cottages in a temperate rainforest (yes really) in mid Wales. They had no insulation and were built into a rock face at the back which increased the damp problems. At first we let them out long term to tenants; when they went away on holiday for a couple of weeks, even though the heating was left on at frost setting, there was mould growing on their leather sofa when they got back. When we let them out later as holiday cottages there could be two or three week gaps between bookings especially in the winter months but as we had a big dehumidifier for each they remained as dry as a bone with again the heating just on the frost setting. Get a dehumidifier that measures and responds to the damp. If your garage is reasonably well sealed once the dehumidifier brings the damp levels down to reasonable it won't be on all the time, probably only needing the tank emptying once a week if our experience is anything to go by.

[chris p bacon]

There is a regular damp patch along the line where the wall joins that base and my 'professional' says that the base was built without a damp course and so he is recommending adding one.

 

The type of building you have do not have damp courses. They are sectional concrete and are intended to sit flat on a concrete base with a fillet of cement on the inside, This is sufficient to keep ground level moisture out. It is near impossible to install an injected DPC into these buildings and installing a PVC dampcourse will only detach the building from the concrete base. 

Should you wish to upgrade the building I would think seriously about dropping the garage and replacing with a timber framed building which is easier to insulate and ventilate.