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Hornby - New tooling - Mark 2F coaches


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9 hours ago, andyman7 said:

I'm hoping Hornby produce some more SOs because there are going to be quite a few orphaned BSOs left on the shelf at this rate

 

Shades of Airfix Mk2's?

 

The same happened with them as they produced equal numbers of BSO/SO/FO. Hence during the noughties and early 2010s, 2nd hand SOs were fetching much higher prices than the matching FO and BSO.

 

(Not that I need any aircon Mk2s anymore as I have more than enough stashed to finish off my NwR yellow fleet and have quite a few spare...........)

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The Airfix problem was caused because the SO didn't appear until 1980 whereas the BSO and FO had been introduced with the range in 1976. It wasn't even a case of equal numbers, there were fewer SOs made. But in general Hornby have learnt the lesson (hence for example HST rakes with multiple TSOs to the FO/TGS/Buffet. Therefore I'm not quite sure what they were thinking of with the DRS releases!

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3 hours ago, andyman7 said:

The Airfix problem was caused because the SO didn't appear until 1980 whereas the BSO and FO had been introduced with the range in 1976. It wasn't even a case of equal numbers, there were fewer SOs made. But in general Hornby have learnt the lesson (hence for example HST rakes with multiple TSOs to the FO/TGS/Buffet. Therefore I'm not quite sure what they were thinking of with the DRS releases!


I’ll put my sales hat on and make a guess..

 

Hornby are smart,  they got it right first time with the Scotrail mk2f’s... i’m sure they knew what to do with DRS ones.

 

My guess would be its competitive:

1. Maybe it was a choice in production slots, more DRS or more Scotrail but not both ? To kill the Bachmann one they need to ensure the market is fully flooded with Scotrail mk2s before Bachmann get theres (its clear theyve achieved that, no ones talking about Scotrail coaches and there is no shortage, Bachmanns one isnt here and personally I think they’d be better off canning it myself at this stage). 

2. By making the BSOs, there is a rake in the market for DRS, and of the choices theres more chance people will buy another TSO in the future, than a second BSO. They can even take their time making a second TSO as the need has been met so they can leave it for a rainy day and demand will still be there.

 

3. Every BSO sold cheap is a demand created for more TSOs, where as the reverse wouldnt be true.

 

i’d buy the BSOs as in my mind theres less chance of more of them in future. Who knows if they made more TSOs, it may come with a DBSO.. then again as the whole lot are now in the DRS bin, Hornby may not repeat either and move on to Loram mk2fs and an Anglia / Network rail dbso instead.


I do think were coming close to saturation with mk2e/f’s. I think a break maybe worthwhile before doing mk2d’s as its much of a muchness. Ive decided to bin my mk2d’s.. theres only so many blue/grey & intercity coaches I need, so no rush to replace them.

 

Edited by adb968008
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On 25/09/2020 at 13:29, cessna152towser said:

As so often happens, I receive items quicker if I do not pre-order them.

I have Scotrail 6183 on pre-order from Rails.   Still showing today as part-shipped  (I already received the other item which I had ordered at the same time).  No notification that they won't fulfil the balance of my order, only what I have read on here.  Maybe they intend to acquire  some new Hornby stock via another retailer.

I have DRS 5937 on pre-order from Jadlam.

 

An update from last week's post.   My pre-ordered DRS 5937 from Jadlam arrived in the post today and this morning I received an e-mail from Rails cancelling my pre-order for Scotrail 6183.

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On 04/10/2020 at 23:04, adb968008 said:

First BSO is coming out of works...
 

9539, a regular on the Fife circle set..

019F67EB-53E2-4909-8EE4-3735F224D3AD.jpeg.656bbd2e78674d80ec99749ac842fbf4.jpeg

 

always looks better with lights, but the tables & seat rests needed colouring.

 

84D412B0-4212-4456-8783-D3FF18D207F7.jpeg

both of mine turned up last week to run with Accurascale Navy Nuclear wagons comming out soon (very nice indeed). out of interest what lighting did you use, looks brilliant.

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13 hours ago, jonnyuk said:

both of mine turned up last week to run with Accurascale Navy Nuclear wagons comming out soon (very nice indeed). out of interest what lighting did you use, looks brilliant.

Its a brilliant white LED strip off ebay, 12v (comes in 2m rolls, cut to size).

I also bought a 12v rectifier (not the easiest things to find in a small size), I obtained a dozen a few years ago, as I use DC (gives bi-directional lighting).

 

What I did was slightly position it, so all the leds are over the passenger / guards area, and first door way, and added a bit of black electric tape covering the void above the guards area to prevent bleed into the luggage area.
 

theres a nice picture here of the coaches under going overhaul back in 2015

http://www.arlington-fleet.com/drsmk2.html

 

Though my own “in service” TSO image is a bit more “used”  and tables & arm rests are blue not grey, and the grab knobs are silver not yellow compared with the Arlington overhaul image.

 

9C7F31D5-76D6-4D53-A4B8-62D6E9BC1AB2.jpeg.742d2adaaac3a9d7205a99eb9298a04f.jpeg
i’m going to crop it and stretch to get a carpet segment, then print it out and stick it in. Trying to decide if adding grey to the inner walls may make it too light inside.. but note the carpet is the same in the first two TSOs.. but darker in the third, just visible one.

 

by contrast the Rhymney Blue/Grey set.. was definitely darker inside.

B94C4A43-3516-4FF6-8011-8B9A2624927F.jpeg.307504b107b4a1b32f083d74f205ae54.jpeg
 

this one had orange seats..

848DE271-9D20-4DF8-8974-65C560EEC93E.jpeg.21a22d4e2d73f286dae70cff097c91f0.jpeg

 

so i’m going to use a bit of artistic freedom with each vehicle Interior in the rake

Edited by adb968008
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Fyi here is the guy with the rectifier

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-DC-Converter-6-12-24V-to-12V-Full-bridge-Rectifier-Filter-Power-Supply-Module/233614158232

 

I use the 6-16v one.
There not always in stock, it converts AC 12v to DC 12v, though in my case i’m using it as 12v DC in, which the polarity switches when reversing direction on my controller, and thus ensures continual correct polarity for my LEDs in either direction.

 

its not the smallest thing, but it will fit in the vestibule/toilets with the ocassional hack needed.

 

heres a mock up of it..

 

the croc clips are the track, the wire is wrapped around the bogie axles, runs upto the rectifier and onto the led strip.

ABF47293-8114-4DB6-84B9-F08986EA33C2.jpeg.28a064785ee028d5147c8b3ae9064a8a.jpeg


in implementation, i shorten the wires and solder them (rather than the connector blocks).

 

The pick ups on the bogies are made from wire twine off Campo Viejo (an ok wine, I reccomend odd years, not for the wire, but to drink).. but the wire as as you see is  useful..

F4A3A1EA-556F-4693-8791-AAE359D66A78.jpeg.e7a54ef536c91c22c126c6aabf77f77c.jpeg

It spins freely with little noticeable resistance

If both axles are insulated, a bit of solder from axle to one wheel over the plastic solves that issue.


 

The whole thing works out about £2.20 per coach, and you get the wine free.

 

if your really on a shoe string, one rectifier in the bso, then run two wires under the coach ends.. you can make a wire connector to join two coaches using a “n” gauge fishplate...

i. fit two coaches with leds, run wires out of the bottom of the bogie clip hole.

ii. crimp two ends of wires from two separate led strips into the two ends of the fishplate.

Iii. Cut the fishplate in the middle turn one upside down and slide it into the other to make the connection

(Repeat i-iii for the second wire).

Iv. Repeat at the other end of the coach, for each coach on the train...

v. To disconnect the coach, slide 1 half the fishplate out of the other.

vi. N gauge fisplates are tiny, and halves even smaller, to maintain polarity, colour them, 1 yellow, one red.. looks like Air brake pipes that way, and you dont get them confused.

 

costs around £2.20 to light the first coach, and less than £1 per each extra coach.

 

if that all sounds a bit too much like modelling, DCC concepts have an almost rtr solution, with 12 wheels for £24.... so works out around £6.50 per coach with the Rectifier and LEDs, though you still need to solder..

https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/quality-wheelsets-16-5mm-track-12x-14mm/

 

 

I learned this trick syncing the motors of Hornby 142’s 30 years ago to stop the two motors fighting each other, I still have those units and still works today.. I gave the idea to Hornby around 1990.. and the regional railways version had a variation of that fix in its release... so guaranteed to work for 30 years at least...ymmv.

Edited by adb968008
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On 01/10/2020 at 10:02, andyman7 said:

Therefore I'm not quite sure what they were thinking of with the DRS releases!

 

I think the expectation could have been that people will buy a pair of BSOs to run with Accurascale KUAs, even though they wouldn't be technically correct it makes an OK representation. A mate has bought 2 BSOs for exactly that reason.

 

I have bought 2 BSOs and 2 SOs, so I can run 2 BSOs with my KUAs or top and tail 4 coaches with 37/4s whilst I know its not entirely accurate in both counts making 2 decent enough looking trains for £125 isn't bad I don't think.

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@adb968008 for pick ups I use DCC concepts wound axle type, exactly the same principal as yours but without the hassle of having to wind wire round the axle as I’m lazy! 
 

as for the lighting unit I got something similar from layouts 4u for my IM stock, built in capacitor for flicker free running and LED dimmer, About £3.50 each at the time

 

 

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4 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I think the expectation could have been that people will buy a pair of BSOs to run with Accurascale KUAs, even though they wouldn't be technically correct it makes an OK representation. A mate has bought 2 BSOs for exactly that reason.

 

Exactly what i have done

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Popped up to dagfields earlier and got an extra DRS livery BSO purely with the intention of taking it apart!

 

About 5 years ago I bought a PH Designs DBSO conversion kit to do a NR DBSO, part of the kit is a jig to cut the windows

34A6D46E_2367_459D_B990_C3C7A875759A_IMG

 

it simply slots over the end of the coach and you drill/score the windows out, as well as scoring a new door on one side

 

first up was removing the body

7FEA12C8_243A_485E_95B1_FBE4F53BAEA3_IMG

 

and gangway

1EEB4342_2DEA_4B74_B330_50EAF29A7075_IMG
 

Then the raised end detail so the jig can sit flush on the end

496C832C_86F6_428A_9FEB_BEE72A41E67E_IMG
 

and carefully cut out the windows, the Most complicated bit Is the new door where there is a windows on the drivers side 

9EDC23A7_ED5B_4B91_B2D3_B74C9BF26C0F_IMG
 

And with the jig removed, prior to fling the holes a bit 

E95243E6_C78D_4290_816E_082BECAF22CE_IMG

 

Blanked up the end with some plasticard, again to be filed back slightly at the edges, you can also see where the new score lines in the drivers side create a new door, the thin slivers of plasticard are to narrow down the existing window hole to suit the door 

EF919285_6D00_4F34_A1A6_717E687E417C_IMG

 

Got to put a thin sliver of putty in the Small side window hole on top of the existing glazing then carefully rub back flush with the body before painting it as per a plated up window on the real thing 

87498415_BC22_486A_A4C0_85785BCC02F4_IMG
 

80F14EF7_9D59_424D_B7F1_DA3130C34CE1_IMG

 

That’s as far as I got before I had to go to work 
 

the original kit came with brass etched window frames and light clusters and a wonderfully executed fold up obstacle deflector all of which I’ve used on the original conversion and I’m in 2 minds whether to order another kit to get those bits or have a go at scratch building them out of plasticard

 

in all not a bad start for an hours work in my opinion, other than the yellow end and patch painting the window blank and frames the original decals and paint can be left alone, might even do another NR one too!

 

 

 

 

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Narrowed the front windows a bit 

001_IMG_5078.JPG
 

and primed

001_IMG_5079.JPG
 

Then hand painted, I just put some humbrol 18 blue on the window and door for now, will rub it back and put some DRS blue on instead

001_IMG_5080.JPG

 

001_IMG_5081.JPG

 

001_IMG_5084.JPG
 

and on the push pull rake

001_IMG_5083.JPG
 

001_IMG_5082.JPG

 

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On 18/10/2020 at 14:53, Craig1989 said:

I’m still waiting for my drs and network rail ones from ttc 

 

You will be lucky my friend !!!

 

Despite TTC placing a large pre-order for these DRS coaches many months ago, guess what ?

 

Hornby aren't able to send them any  (out of stock)

 

What is the point of retailers and also customers placing pre-orders in good faith if Hornby have no intention to supply.

 

I know of at least 2 other shops that have suffered the same fate.

 

Disappointing !!!

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Customers place pre-orders; retailers place orders. But until their allocation is confirmed they can't guarantee a customer's pre order. We don't know the ins and outs of what has happened here.

It's very easy for a shop to tell a disgruntled customer that they ordered said item and didn't get them without any insight into the account concerned and the reasons why this may have happened.

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6 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Customers place pre-orders; retailers place orders. But until their allocation is confirmed they can't guarantee a customer's pre order. We don't know the ins and outs of what has happened here.

It's very easy for a shop to tell a disgruntled customer that they ordered said item and didn't get them without any insight into the account concerned and the reasons why this may have happened.

 

Point taken, but it is still very frustrating when we customers show loyalty to our retailers, only to find that the models are not being supplied as planned.

 

We are then left with the task of obtaining the models else where, when most retailers have already sold out.

 

Frustrating  !!!

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35 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Customers place pre-orders; retailers place orders. But until their allocation is confirmed they can't guarantee a customer's pre order. We don't know the ins and outs of what has happened here.

It's very easy for a shop to tell a disgruntled customer that they ordered said item and didn't get them without any insight into the account concerned and the reasons why this may have happened.

 

Well, was there not the case of a retailer reporting to somebody that their pre orders could not be fulfilled yet they had been selling stock on eBay at the time of release? I think in this case there was a second wave of stock to alleviate but quite rightfully so questions were asked.

 

The pre orders with any particular retailer depends on the system they have in place to handle such things.

 

I had some ScotRail mk3s stuck in limbo with a certain stockist, I had 4 coaches of different codes to make a prototypical rake on order, 2 types turned up and 2 didn't until I asked the question and they said the stuff came in on different days (which I know to be true) but the second lot had got stuck in the system. Luckily they had enough stock to fulfill my order or I could have missed out on half my rake as a result of a supposed IT error.

Edited by TomScrut
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Chester model centre, a good half dozen or so DRS BSOs on the shelf £31.49 Each

 

(and Lots of various network rail coaches too) 

 

as of tomorrow’s lockdown they will be doing click and collect and mail order 

 

001_IMG_5339.JPG

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On 06/10/2020 at 23:47, adb968008 said:

 

 

9C7F31D5-76D6-4D53-A4B8-62D6E9BC1AB2.jpeg.742d2adaaac3a9d7205a99eb9298a04f.jpeg
i’m going to crop it and stretch to get a carpet segment, then print it out and stick it in. Trying to decide if adding grey to the inner walls may make it too light inside.. but note the carpet is the same in the first two TSOs.. but darker in the third, just visible one.

 

by contrast the Rhymney Blue/Grey set.. was definitely darker inside.

B94C4A43-3516-4FF6-8011-8B9A2624927F.jpeg.307504b107b4a1b32f083d74f205ae54.jpeg
 

this one had orange seats..

848DE271-9D20-4DF8-8974-65C560EEC93E.jpeg.21a22d4e2d73f286dae70cff097c91f0.jpeg

 

so i’m going to use a bit of artistic freedom with each vehicle Interior in the rake

 

Nice work with the interiors, I really find that painting them up (especially when they come / have lighting) really makes the difference.

 

If it helps, those interiors are as follows: 

Your image - Virgin West Coast (Green & Blue moquette) - Owned by Riviera

Dark Green / Yellow seats - Virgin Cross Country - Owned by Riviera

Orange / Pinky Red - Anglia Railways - Owned by Riviera

Dark Blue / refurbished - Direct Rail Services - owned by DRS 

Green with Blue flecks - First Great Western - There was one BSO which found use in the Fife Circle sets, later refurbished.  

ScotRail Saltire - Owned by Riviera 

Teal with Purple / Blue / Cream bars - Arriva Trains Wales  - Now owned by Riviera - also used on the Fife Circle. 

 

The impressive thing I noticed with those Fife Circle Mk2s was, despite finding use with numerous operators since, they were still carrying their old Virgin Trains route maps by the vestibule from the late 1990s / early 2000s. 

 

Edited by surfsup
Added ex Arriva Trains Wales / Riviera Mk2.
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