Hornby - New tooling - Mk3 slide-door coaches

[Legend]

On ‎18‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 16:40, Scottish-Exile said:

Hattons have produced a chart showing the various configurations:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/NewsDetail.aspx?id=425&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=FacebookHornbyMk3SDFormationsDiagram#formations

 

 

Don't know how I missed this thread, however, I think the Scotrail TGFB  based on the TGS bodyshell is  wrong . It should be based on a FO bodyshell.  Possibly a revision after these coaches were announced by Hornby , but for Scotrail  the First, Buffet and Guards office are accommodated in the former First Coach not TGS.  I think the others are OK though.

 

[43055]

8 hours ago, Legend said:

 

Don't know how I missed this thread, however, I think the Scotrail TGFB  based on the TGS bodyshell is  wrong . It should be based on a FO bodyshell.  Possibly a revision after these coaches were announced by Hornby , but for Scotrail  the First, Buffet and Guards office are accommodated in the former First Coach not TGS.  I think the others are OK though.

 

I think it may be just a early representation of the livery on the coach. Looking at the XC and GWR liveries as well they both have full coaches on the TGS and the 'fade' to the gray on the other coaches. Also if you look closely you can see a first class logo and line on the standard scot rail coaches.

[Connor43002]

Does anyone know the current due dates for the GWR and XC versions please? The Hornby website is in a bit of a muddle with different coaches saying either autumn 2019 or Winter 2019-2020 and hasn't been updated for a while. Many thanks 

[159220]

I like to keep lists, this might help those interested in modelling the Mk3SD. Of course, until Hornby announce the actual coach numbers, we cannot really know for sure what 'set' to order. The GWR GW01-11 are pretty much fixed, with spares swapping within the sets. CrossCountry have several spares and shall swap these around maintenance, below are current formations. Scotrail are a little more fixed, with spares available. 

 

CrossCountry  operate 2+7 and not the 2+9 Hornby are currently offering!

 

I shall update others once released, if of interest - perhaps once the Hornby coach numbers are released? 

 

GWR -

2+4 to model, with Hornby offering two sets and three previous release HST power cars - to be renamed 'Castles' as 'GWR does not operate HSTs anymore'...

 

Powercar 

A - TGS (Wifi pods on roof)
B - TS
C - TSD 
D - TS (with ‘butterfly' external door)

Powercar

 

'L' is not used to identify as a lavatory, this appears to be a Scotrail only thing. 

 

GW01 TGS 49101 ‘A’, TS 48102 ‘B’, TSD 48103 ‘C’ & TS 48101 ‘D’
GW02 TGS 49102 ‘A’, TS 48104 ‘B’, TSD 48105 ‘C’ & TS 48106 ‘D’
GW03 TGS 49103 ‘A’, TS 48107 ‘B’, TSD 48108 ‘C’ & TS 48109 ‘D’
GW04 TGS 49104 ‘A’, TS 48110 ‘B’, TSD 48111 ‘C’ & TS 48112 ‘D’
GW05 TGS 49105 ‘A’, TS 48113 ‘B’, TSD 48114 ‘C’ & TS 48115 ‘D’
GW06 TGS 49106 ‘A’, TS 48116 ‘B’, TSD 48117 ‘C’ & TS 48118 ‘D’
Next GW07 GE(Wabtec)
TS 48131 (currently in GW04) is a spare until it fits into GW11, spare TGS 49112 is currently in GW02.

GW01 & 02 were different when introduced as the TSD were not yet available (GW01 featured 48111 vice 48103 & GW02 featured 48131 vice 48105).

 

CrossCountry -

2+7 to model, with Hornby offering two sets plus four 'spare' coaches and one release HST power car due 'Autumn'. The Previous HST power car is not suitable, as they have lost their exhaust diffusers.

 

Powercar

A - TFD
B - TCC
C - TS
D - TS
E - TS
F - TSD
G - TGS

Powercar

 

'L' is not used to identify as a lavatory, this appears to be a Scotrail only thing. 

 

(HST - original HST Mk3 builds / LHCS - HST Mk3 conversions which retain Mk3 LHCS roof vents)

 

XC01    TFD 41193 'A' (LHCS) TCC 45001 'B' (LHCS) TS 42342 'C' (HST) TS 42097 'D' (HST) TS 42377 'E' (LHCS) TSD 42374 'F' (LHCS) TGS 44021 'G' (HST)

XC03    TFD 41195 'A' (LHCS) TCC 45003 'B' (LHCS) TS 42370 'C' (LHCS) TS 42378 'D' (LHCS) TS 42036 'E' (HST) TSD 42376 'F' (LHCS) TGS 44052 'G' (HST)

XC04    TFD 41026 'A' (HST) TCC 45004 'B' (LHCS) TS 42051 'C' (HST) TS 42369 'D' (LHCS) TS 42375 'E' (LHCS) TSD 42366 'F' (LHCS) TGS 44012 'G' (HST)

 
Next XC02 GE(Wabtec)

 

Scotrail - currently in 2+4, with first 2+5 due by 'December'. Hornby offering two sets for either 2+4 or 2+5 and one release HST power car. 

 

Powercar

A - TGFB (formerly called by Wabtec as the TFC). Rebuilt from an ex-TF with a catering area and guards space. 
B - TSD (Wifi pods on roof)
C - TSB (B for Bike space)
D - TSL (with ‘butterfly' external door)

(Powercar - 2+4 sets)
E - TSL (2+5 GTi only with ‘butterfly' external door)

(Powercar - 2+5 sets)

 

HA20    TGFB 40616 'A'    TSD 42291 'B'    TSB 42577 'C'    TSL 42184 'D'
HA21    TGFB 40612 'A'    TSD 42055 'B'    TSB 42576 'C'    TSL 42276 'D'
HA22    TGFB 40608 'A'    TSD 42275 'B'    TSB 42571 'C'    TSL 42019 'D'
HA23    TGFB 40605 'A'    TSD 42345 'B'    TSB 42034 'C'    TSL 42075 'D'
HA24    TGFB 40604 'A'    TSD 42183 'B'    TSB 42559 'C'    TSL 42343 'D'
HA25    TGFB 40602 'A'    TSD 42292 'B'    TSB 42562 'C'    TSL 42045 'D'
HA26    TGFB 40601 'A'    TSD 42004 'B'    TSB 42561 'C'    TSL 42046 'D'
Next HA19 GE(Wabtec)

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by 159220

[159220]

As for what to buy, we are waiting for Hornby to confirm!

 

For GWR in theory you need -

R3696 GWR, Class 43 HST, Power Cars 43093 'Old Oak Common - HST Depot 1976-2018' and 43016 or R3510 Class 43 HST, Power Cars 43 187 and Power Cars 43 188

(R3685 is not entirely suitable as 43 041 named "Meningitis Trust for Life" shall be de-named)

R4896 GWR, TGS Coach A

R4895 GWR, TSD Coach C

Uncertainty -

R4915 GWR, Mk3 TS Coach ?

R4915A GWR, Mk3 TS Coach ?

Or is it R4915C, Mk3 TS to be coach D?

 

Scotrail is not clear, as you do not need coach E for a 2+5. But no indication which TSLs shall be TSB and which TSL coaches D and E -

 

R3698 ScotRail, Class 43 HST, Power Cars 43033 and 43183

R4907 ScotRail, TGFB Coach A

R4891 ScotRail,  TSD Coach B

Uncertainty -

R4937 ScotRail, TS Coach C? I assume, as Hornby do not label this as a TSL, this is in fact a TSB and thus coach C?

R4890 ScotRail, TSL Coach ?

R4890A ScotRail,  TSL Coach ?

 

I do not know where to start, you need 2+7 for XC -

 

R3808 Cross Country, Class 43 HST, Power Cars 43357 and 43304

R4942 Cross Country Trains,  TFD Coach A

R4941 Cross Country Trains,  TCC Coach B

R4939 Cross Country Trains,  TSD Coach F

R4938 Cross Country Trains, TGS Coach G

Major Uncertainty -

R4940 Cross Country Trains, TS Coach ?

R4940A Cross Country Trains,  TS Coach ?

R4940B Cross Country Trains,  TS Coach ?

You shall need two different types of TS for XC. HST and ex-LHCS - looking at EPs they have tooled both types. 

 

But, there are many other coaches Hornby are producing and no clarity on what numbers match what! So I have not ordered to avoid a disaster of A-G all out of place!

Edited September 14, 2019 by 159220

[Scottish-Exile]

8 minutes ago, 159220 said:

But, there are many other coaches Hornby are producing and no clarity on what numbers match what! So I have not ordered to avoid a disaster of A-G all out of place!

 

Same here. Got the Scotrail Inter7City Power Cars but awaiting to see what coaches go with them.

[Connor43002]

Now some of the XC ones are showing spring 2020 

[43055]

On 27/09/2019 at 16:58, Connor43002 said:

Now some of the XC ones are showing spring 2020 

Just looked and certainly the XC power cars and coaches now say Summer 2020.

[phil-b259]

On 07/05/2019 at 10:09, Grizz said:

 

Back in the real world, I am totally gutted that the opportunity to stand at an open window of an HST trailer coach whilst it is hammering up and down the 'Western' on a service train, especially along the sea wall through Dawlish and Teignmouth, will be gone for ever!!!!!!

 

IMHO, Plug doors, with sealed windows suck so bad! I s'spose that the occasional rail tour might still venture out and about with drop down windows........but it just won't be the same. Still that's progress.......LOL.

 

 

 

Please be aware that the ORR want ALL open widows that are large enough to potentially put a head out of BANNED from the national network - including charter train stock.

 

I quote:-

 

Droplight windows can be dangerous. GTR was recently fined £1 million for health and safety failings after a passenger lost his life when his head passed through a window on the Gatwick Express in August 2016.

 

Although some trains on the mainline railway use droplight windows, they are used more on heritage railways and we know that operators - and passengers - want to continue using Mark 1, 2 and 3 carriages, so we are working with heritage railways to ensure they can provide an authentic experience which passengers can enjoy in safety.

 

Mainline operators, and charter operators using heritage stock on the mainline, are already looking at ways to meet safety standards expected after December 2019, including fitting internal door handles and lockable windows. From 31 March 2023, we expect all heritage stock on the mainline to be fitted with internal door handles and lockable windows.

 

See https://orr.gov.uk/news-and-blogs/orr-blog/2019/safety-first-droplight-windows-on-heritage-and-charter-trains

 

and https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/21/steam-trains-could-forced-tracks-new-tougher-safety-rules-heritage/

 

Enjoy standing by open windows while you still can!

Edited November 18, 2019 by phil-b259

[adb968008]

On 14/09/2019 at 17:09, Scottish-Exile said:

 

Same here. Got the Scotrail Inter7City Power Cars but awaiting to see what coaches go with them.

just completed 3 sorties to Scotland (Edinburgh, Inverness and Glasgow) in the last 2 months, Ive seen 10 Scotrail HST rakes...

 

Did not yet see one with the plug doors.

 

Each formation was the same...

 

ScR Inter7City PC +  TGS+TSO+TSO+FO + ScR Inter7City PC

 

All were ex FGW dynamic lines, with “First Great Western” wording removed from the centre of the coach, though its quite visible.

 

 

Interesting in Cardiff, the same livery thrives with FGW power cars too..., though here they are 5 car sets..., seen 2 days later.

 

 

As 4 and 5 car sets, they have some fantastic acceleration !

 

As for modelling, its dual purposing my Dynamic lines coaches nicely !  

 

The absence of any ScR liveried mk3’s makes me wonder if they are running yet or if I was just unlucky on 3 occasions (Oct 22nd/23rd/24th and Nov 14th).

 

It does give Hornby a bit more time though, for plug coaches Ive only seen these on GWR & XC sets todate.

 

interior..

 

exterior...

Culloden Viaduct, (Just one of many sights that will soon never to be seen by passengers again)

 

2019 year of change, enjoy it whilst it lasts..

Edited November 20, 2019 by adb968008

[43055]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

The absence of any ScR liveried mk3’s makes me wonder if they are running yet or if I was just unlucky on 3 occasions (Oct 22nd/23rd/24th and Nov 14th).

ScotRail do post the upgraded sets diagrams on twitter. It is normally around 3-5 out per day.

[mdvle]

Painted samples have arrived at Hornby of the GWR version

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/princess-royal-mk3sd-xmas-comp

[Hilux5972]

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

Painted samples have arrived at Hornby of the GWR version

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/princess-royal-mk3sd-xmas-comp

And they look great. The detail picked out on the bogies and the disc brakes on the wheels are fantastic. 

[adb968008]

18 hours ago, mdvle said:

Painted samples have arrived at Hornby of the GWR version

 

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/princess-royal-mk3sd-xmas-comp

 

They look very cool, looking at things like the window seals, bogies, and carriage end underfloor details, it looks similar to Oxfords, though the roof looks to have a moulded grab handle at the ends, not a wire one like Oxfords mk3.

 

Either way it’s a step up in detail closer to Oxfords mk3a rather than the ex-Lima Mk3’s.

 

Maybe we’re going to get “class 255” power cars with the new Castle Names to go with them ? The new nameplates are very nice, with outlines of each castle they are named after as part of the plate.

 

XC is the version I want to see.

 

Edited December 21, 2019 by adb968008

[Legend]

Posted this in the Hornby 2020 Topic , but it might be more appropriate here

 

I see the catalogue now has the correctly identified Scotrail Inter7City mk 3s ,in particular the TGFB (R4907/A) seems correctly identified . I think last year when first announced it was assumed to be a TGS variant . So that's good

 

Still confused over formation though . Variants are R4937/A Which is a TS (marked coach C in illustration)   R4890/A/B/C  described as a TSL and marked as coach D and the aforementioned R4907/A TGFB marked as Coach A

 

It looks to me to get a 4 coach rake I need 1X R4907 , 1X R4937 and 2 X R4890 , but how do I know which of these R4890s is coach B?

 

Sorry if being dense . I think the issue is that Hornby have TGFB , TS and TSL versions  whereas from the actual coach formations there are TSD and TSB variations , which are possibly just TSs externally

[Hilux5972]

3 hours ago, Legend said:

Posted this in the Hornby 2020 Topic , but it might be more appropriate here

 

I see the catalogue now has the correctly identified Scotrail Inter7City mk 3s ,in particular the TGFB (R4907/A) seems correctly identified . I think last year when first announced it was assumed to be a TGS variant . So that's good

 

Still confused over formation though . Variants are R4937/A Which is a TS (marked coach C in illustration)   R4890/A/B/C  described as a TSL and marked as coach D and the aforementioned R4907/A TGFB marked as Coach A

 

It looks to me to get a 4 coach rake I need 1X R4907 , 1X R4937 and 2 X R4890 , but how do I know which of these R4890s is coach B?

 

Sorry if being dense . I think the issue is that Hornby have TGFB , TS and TSL versions  whereas from the actual coach formations there are TSD and TSB variations , which are possibly just TSs externally

The codes with letters do not correspond to the coach A B C etc. They are just the product codes. I’d say you will find that the R4937 & R4937A are coaches B & C and the R4890 & R4890A/B/C will be coaches D E F & G. 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Hilux5972
Correction

[MGR Hooper!]

From the KMRC facebook page

 

 

 

[ThaneofFife]

big fan of the overhauled mk3s from Hornby. theyve listened to customers and now got a fairly priced attractive model. 

[surfsup]

They do look very good, but, a minor negative, is the moulded tank handles which particularly stick out on the XC version. Perhaps if they were reduced in height a little they would look better. It's good to see that they've got the right window layout of the TS-D though. 

 

The ScotRail TFGB will be the most interesting to see modelled I reckon! 

[G-BOAF]

Any chance they will the Slam Door Mk3s to the same standard?

[MGR Hooper!]

3 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Any chance they will the Slam Door Mk3s to the same standard?

 

Hopefully!!

[43055]

The 2020 Hornby catalogue has vehicle numbers for each model except the Scotrail TSD's:

 

GWR:

TGS: 49104

TS: 48110, 48131

TSD: 48111

 

Formation being: 48110, 48111, 48131, 49104 (TS, TSD, TS, TGS) Set GW04?

 

Scotrail:

 

TS: 42561, 42562

TSL: 42046, 42045, 42343, 42184

TSD: No numbers on website, Not shown in catalogue.

TGFB: 40601, 40602

 

From this you can have two sets and two spare TSL's which could possibly be used to make a 5 car set:

TGFB, TSD, TS, TSL, (TSL)

HA25: 40602, 42292, 42562, 42045

HA26: 40601, 42004, 42561, 42046

 

Cross Country:

 

TGS: 44021, 44052

TCC: 45001, 45003

TFD: 41193, 41195

TSD: 42366, 42376, 42380, 42371

TS: 42342, 42097, 42377, 42370, 42378, 42036, 42051, 42369

 

From this you can make two sets and have a few spare vehicles:

TFD, TCC, TS, TS, TS, TSD, TGS

XC01: 41193, 45001, 42342, 42097, 42377, 42366, 44021

XC03: 41195, 45003, 42370, 42378, 42036, 42376, 44052

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, 43055 said:

The 2020 Hornby catalogue has vehicle numbers for each model except the Scotrail TSD's:

 

 

 

Cross Country:

 

TGS: 44021, 44052

TCC: 45001, 45003

TFD: 41193, 41195

TSD: 42366, 42376, 42380, 42371

TS: 42342, 42097, 42377, 42370, 42378, 42036, 42051, 42369

 

From this you can make two sets and have a few spare vehicles:

TFD, TCC, TS, TS, TS, TSD, TGS

XC01: 41193, 45001, 42342, 42097, 42377, 42366, 44021

XC03: 41195, 45003, 42370, 42378, 42036, 42376, 44052

 

As I've got XC01 represented with hinged doors, so I'm obviously after set XC03

 

I've managed to track down the catalogue numbers R4942A/XXXX/R4940C/R4940D/R4940E/R4939A/R4938A respectively

 

But XXXX - can anyone confirm if the TCC for set XC03 is R4941 or R4941A please? (Logically it should be The A suffix...……)

 

Ta.

 

Mick

[JackB95]

9 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

As I've got XC01 represented with hinged doors, so I'm obviously after set XC03

 

I've managed to track down the catalogue numbers R4942A/XXXX/R4940C/R4940D/R4940E/R4939A/R4938A respectively

 

But XXXX - can anyone confirm if the TCC for set XC03 is R4941 or R4941A please? (Logically it should be The A suffix...……)

 

Ta.

 

Mick

 

You've just saved me the chore of doing it as I was about to start converting the fleet numbers to R numbers. I've Tweeted Hornby to try and get our answer.

 

Cheers both.

[royaloak]

48 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

But XXXX - can anyone confirm if the TCC for set XC03 is R4941 or R4941A please? (Logically it should be The A suffix...……)

The set number is basically taken from the TCC so its 45003 in XC03.