Hornby - New tooling - Mk3 slide-door coaches

[Derails Models]

Hi all,

 

Just been doing some research on the GWR Mark 3's for a Ian H and with help from Paul Isles and using his data above (thanks very much Paul!) I've collated the following information regarding the GWR HST sets in an attempt to answer most of the questions about them in one single post. Thanks also to who gary_lner who deduced GW04 above which helped me along! Haven't had time to do a full infographic as things are pretty hectic here right now (we've had a 103% increase in order totals in three weeks!).

 

Edit on 08/04/2020: This post was edited to reflect information provided below, thank-you to everyone that has contributed to the thread on this! I've now updated the set's below using this information to reflect how the sets are currently running, and completely changed the section on power car allocations! 

 

What you need to order to make up the GWR coach sets

 

From the coaches Hornby are producing you can make two coach sets up, GW04 and three quarters of GW03 (details on why it's only 'most' of GW03 can be found below, but to cut a long story short, the sets have now been changed since the model numbers were finalised).

 

To make set GW04 you need to order as follows:

 

48112 Coach D             R4915A
48111 Coach C (TSD)  R4895A
48110 Coach B            R4915B
49104 Coach A            R4896A

 

To make set GW03 you need to order as follows:

48131 Coach D           R4915C (As a result of a set change since the models were finalised, as described by Simon Bendall in detail below, this is not the current running number of GW03, but instead as it was formed between May 2019 and August 2019)
48108 Coach C (TSD)    R4895
48107 Coach B             R4915
49103 Coach A             R4896

 

 

Matching them to your Hornby HST Power Cars

 

Regarding matching them up to your existing Hornby HST power cars, that's easy! As pointed out below, PC's are changed around between the sets all of the time so theoretically you can run any GWR liveried power car with any of the castle sets. Hornby have produced three sets of power cars, they are as follows and are still in-stock at some model shops (not us, before you ask!):

 

R3510 containing 43188 & 43187

R3685 containing 43041 & 43005

R3696 containing 43016 & 43093 'Old Oak Common'

 

Hope that helps, if anyone has any corrections please shout – but that's as I understand it. :-) 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Derails Models

[Class 158 productions]

Why do we need to re number, I thought the old oak common pack was correct for castle class work. I have been thinking of putting rail tec transfers of the Welshman on my 188/187 pack. May have to do this now. 

[Derails Models]

1 hour ago, Class 158 productions said:

Why do we need to re number, I thought the old oak common pack was correct for castle class work. I have been thinking of putting rail tec transfers of the Welshman on my 188/187 pack. May have to do this now. 

 

Hopefully there's someone out there who knows how the sets are formed right now and can clarify that, however using Pauls info from May '19 above, 43093 is paired with a different PC now to the one in the Hornby pack.

 

Happy to be proved wrong though, as it would save a lot of hassle! :-)

Edited April 7, 2020 by Derails Models

[Connor43002]

The powercars tend be swapped around every so often, think the first 2+4 set was run with 43093/016 which I'm assuming is why Hornby opted to do those powercars in the pack released last year along with the SD mk3s

[Class 158 productions]

1 minute ago, Connor43002 said:

The powercars tend be swapped around every so often, think the first 2+4 set was run with 43093/016 which I'm assuming is why Hornby opted to do those powercars in the pack released last year along with the SD mk3s

That’s what I first thought, I believe it was in early 2018

[Connor43002]

5 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said:

That’s what I first thought, I believe it was in early 2018

I filmed it at truro on its third day of testing, can't seem to copy the link from YouTube tho

[Simon Bendall]

The power cars swap over regularly enough, they aren't dedicated to any sets.  Those IDs for GW03 and GW04 are also not the final formations as running today, which are

GW03 48109 48108 48107 49103

GW04 48112 48111 48110 49104

 

So if you want a current day GW04, you want to buy 48112 not 48131.  48131 has been used as a spare vehicle for some months, recently renumbered as 48130 and now in the temporary three-coach GW93.   The second 48131 resides in GW10.

 

Current formations of the whole lot, excluding GW11 which isn't yet released, are

GW01 48103 48102 48101 49101

GW02 48106 48105 48104 49102

GW03 48109 48108 48107 49103

GW04 48112 48111 48110 49104

GW05 48115 48114 48113 49105

GW06 48118 48117 48116 49106

GW07 48121 48120 48119 49107

GW08 48124 48129 48122 49108

GW09 48127 48135 48125 49109

GW10 48131 48132 48128 49110

GW93            48130 48126 49112

[Derails Models]

Aha! This is exactly the sort of feedback I was after, thank-you everyone so much!

 

Firstly, thanks for the clarification on the power cars situation, that's super handy to know as it's been a most-asked question from customers pre-ordering these coaches.

 

Regarding the erroneous coach numbers - these numbers provided are ones provided from Hornby so no typos in my original post. It's a bit late now, but tomorrow morning I'll take a look back at the info provided above and ammend my post to the best of my abilities, however it looks like we may have an issue with an incorrect running number for at least one of the sets as they are currently marshalled vs what is being produced in model form.

 

Apologies for any erroneous information supplied and thanks for the feedback everyone, it's helpful for me especially when advising customers on what they need to purchase. I will get my post altered and try to show what we have vs what we can make in the best way possible!

 

Keep well! 

[Simon Bendall]

2 hours ago, 159220 said:

Is that a typo? Coach D (butterfly door) should be 48109 in GW03 and 48112 in GW04. 48131 is a spare,  

 

Its mentioned above that the running numbers are based on info provided by GWR as of May 2019. At this time, unfortunately both GW03 and GW04 were not in their correct formations and that's were the issue has arisen.

 

GW03 was assigned 48112 in place of 48109 between mid May and mid June 2019 as 48109 was allocated to static training duties, although it appears GW03 actually remained out of service at St Philip's Marsh throughout this time as 48112 was stopped for faults and an exam. GW03 didn't go back in traffic until 48109 was released.

 

GW04 had 48131 in place of 48112 between early May and early August 2019 as 48112 was as above and then sat spare until 48131 needed an exam.

 

So not a mistake, just unfortunate choice of sets and timing.

 

1 hour ago, Derails Models said:

Firstly, thanks for the clarification on the power cars situation, that's super handy to know as it's been a most-asked question from customers pre-ordering these coaches. 

 

In basic terms, any green power car can work with any Castle set now they all have the necessary modifications (traction interlock, door controls, etc). Blue power cars, when they were still around, could not work Castle sets, nor could 43002 and 43185.

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Simon Bendall

[Hilux5972]

Just a quick note about the older MK3 sleepers. It appears that parts of the newer chassis may be making their way onto the older coaches. This is the Sleeper pack from Kernows. Matt Slade just posted on his Facebook page and to me it looks like it has a close coupling NEM pocket and the new bogies. Perhaps I’m seeing it wrong. 

[TomScrut]

21 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Just a quick note about the older MK3 sleepers. It appears that parts of the newer chassis may be making their way onto the older coaches. This is the Sleeper pack from Kernows. Matt Slade just posted on his Facebook page and to me it looks like it has a close coupling NEM pocket and the new bogies. Perhaps I’m seeing it wrong. 

 

Looks that way to me, the new bogies look way better IMO.

[Hilux5972]

Finally be able to get some close coupling to those HST rakes.

[MGR Hooper!]

4 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Just a quick note about the older MK3 sleepers. It appears that parts of the newer chassis may be making their way onto the older coaches. This is the Sleeper pack from Kernows. Matt Slade just posted on his Facebook page and to me it looks like it has a close coupling NEM pocket and the new bogies. Perhaps I’m seeing it wrong. 

 

Looks like the normal bogie mounted NEM socket that's seen on the rest of Hornby Mk3 coach range. It was updated 2 years ago and the GWR Sleepers you've show have been around since last year with those couplings. Pictures attached below from KMRC and RoS (showing the HST trailers with the same couplings).

 

 

 

NOTE: The brand new Mk3SD coaches from Hornby don't have any interchangeable parts between each other. They're made at different factories also which is what I was told. IMO Hornby missed the trick with not having interchangeable parts as the chassis from the Mk3SD would've really made a huge difference to Hornby's current Mk3 range.

Edited April 8, 2020 by MGR Hooper!

[Ian Hargrave]

5 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Finally be able to get some close coupling to those HST rakes.

  
I first discussed this with Simon K when the then new Hornby 125 was released over a decade ago......Well I suppose better late than never....Mustn’t quibble too much though  because as things are finally shaping up it appears we’re about to receive a rather good new generation HST. Thanks to Little Dan also for following this through for me and others.Also to Simon Bendall for his contribution and of course Hornby’s Paul Isles

 

 

 

 

 

 

Something to cheer us in these very unsettling times I think 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Ian Hargrave
Additional text

[Class 158 productions]

3 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 

Something to cheer us in these very unsettling times I think 

Definitely, will bring some much needed joy! 

[Hilux5972]

3 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

  
I first discussed this with Simon K when the then new Hornby 125 was released over a decade ago......Well I suppose better late than never....Mustn’t quibble too much though  because as things are finally shaping up it appears we’re about to receive a rather good new generation HST. Thanks to Little Dan also for following this through for me and others.Also to Simon Bendall for his contribution and of course Hornby’s Paul Isles

 

 

 

 

 

 

Something to cheer us in these very unsettling times I think 

MGR posted above that they aren’t the new chassis with NEM and that the new ones are not compatible with the old ones. Will await an underbody shot before. 

[martin_l_jones]

The last release of GWR Mark 3s with slam doors all had NEM pockets.

 

The initial release did not.

 

Presume the bogies are the same so should be NEM fitted.

Edited April 8, 2020 by martin_l_jones

[TomScrut]

9 minutes ago, martin_l_jones said:

The last release of GWR Mark 3s with slam doors all had NEM pockets.

 

The initial release did not.

 

pPresume bogies are the same so should be NEM fitted.

 

Yes I think the debate here is about the spring loaded pockets for close coupling like the new ones have.

[martin_l_jones]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes I think the debate here is about the spring loaded pockets for close coupling like the new ones have.

I’m sure my coaches came with coupling hooks fitted and close couplers in the box.....

 

Like these ?
 

[TomScrut]

5 minutes ago, martin_l_jones said:

I’m sure my coaches came with coupling hooks fitted and close couplers in the box.....

 

Like these ?
 

 

No, what I mean is it looks like the new coaches have body mounted spring loaded NEMs, the older slam door ones have bogie mounted flexible NEMs. So the likelihood is that the new coaches should close couple. But the picture @Hilux5972 posted looks like the pocket is body mounted. Having said that it probably will be just the angle the pic was taken creating that illusion, as the evidence @MGR Hooper! presents looks solid!

[martin_l_jones]

18 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

No, what I mean is it looks like the new coaches have body mounted spring loaded NEMs, the older slam door ones have bogie mounted flexible NEMs. So the likelihood is that the new coaches should close couple. But the picture @Hilux5972 posted looks like the pocket is body mounted. Having said that it probably will be just the angle the pic was taken creating that illusion, as the evidence @MGR Hooper! presents looks solid!

Ok mate, thanks for clarifying.

 

Id be surprised to see that Implemented on these older coaches but it would be a positive step forward.

 

And looking back at the CAD images it definitely looks like this is the case on the three different types of coaches due out.

 

But looking at the pictures of the painted samples in December it does not look as though it has been implemented.

 

And it is definitely NOT on the Kernow GWR sleepers.

Edited April 8, 2020 by martin_l_jones

[JackB95]

Just had a load of emails from Hattons. The following carriages (with XC03's numbers) now have the following dates announced:

 

On or after Monday 20th April:

R4939A Trailer Standard Disabled

R4940C/D/E Trailer Standard

R4942A Trailer First Disabled

 

On or after Monday 1st June:

R4938A Trailer Guard Standard

R4941A Trailer Catering Composite

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by JackB95

[TomScrut]

40 minutes ago, JackB95 said:

Just had a load of emails from Hattons. The following carriages (with XC03's numbers) now have the following dates announced:

 

On or after Monday 20th April:

R4939A Trailer Standard Disabled

R4940C/D/E Trailer Standard

R4942A Trailer First Disabled

 

On or after Monday 1st June:

R4938A Trailer Guard Standard

R4941A Trailer Catering Composite

 

 

Likewise I have had one about R4890 ScotRail TSL being in stock on or around the 18th of May. No news about the other 3 I have ordered though.

[Derails Models]

Hi all!

 

As promised I've edited my original post from the information provided by those who replied - thank-you all for your contribution! Hopefully that info is as current as can be now! 

 

Isn't this the great thing about RMweb? We can take a confusing situation and with input and discussion from all sides, we can get a clear picture.  Keep well everyone, and thanks again for your help.

 

PS: if anyone has ordered their coaches from us based on my original post and would like their order changed to represent the current set numbers, please do get in-touch with me directly and I'll happily move your order around with no risk of you losing deposits, etc! 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Derails Models

[truffy]

11 hours ago, Derails Models said:

Isn't this the great thing about RMweb? We can take a confusing situation and with input and discussion from all sides, we can get a clear picture.

And sometimes the complete opposite! 

Edited April 9, 2020 by truffy