No Decorum Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 How would it be if Bachmann were to retool the N, designing it carefully to be adaptable to the U, N1 and conjugated and unconjugated U1s? Perhaps that’s too easy. Should we ask for a River class too? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Godfrey Glyn Posted May 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 21, 2019 Hornby have stated on their Facebook page this evening that this Friday’s Engine Shed will be covering the development of the Bulleid coaches. Very much looking forward to these arriving and hopefully they will sell well and encourage Bachmann to get theirs out sooner rather than later. all the best Godfrey 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor7598 Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Godfrey Glyn said: Hornby have stated on their Facebook page this evening that this Friday’s Engine Shed will be covering the development of the Bulleid coaches. Very much looking forward to these arriving and hopefully they will sell well and encourage Bachmann to get theirs out sooner rather than later. all the best Godfrey I couldn't have put better myself !. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted May 22, 2019 Share Posted May 22, 2019 19 hours ago, No Decorum said: How would it be if Bachmann were to retool the N, designing it carefully to be adaptable to the U, N1 and conjugated and unconjugated U1s? Perhaps that’s too easy. Should we ask for a River class too? Remaining off topic - the difference in wheelbase between the N series and U series would be a problem ....... the differences in boiler height possibly less so - less still the cab cosmetics though there were a LOT of variants. My vote would really be for the one you don't mention - the W ......... though fitting those steps over the valve gear might be challenging ! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickham Green Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Update on these coaches in the new 'Engine Shed' : https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/bulleid-59-usa-flying-scotsman-club-locos I wasn't aware that the B.R. addition of beading to the sides resulted in smaller windows - I hope they've got that right. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) Smaller windows because of the beading ?? *. This is the first time I've heard of this ! Also the outer Vee hangers are still shown as being outside the truss angles. They were inside, as shown below. * P.S. Edit. Compare the depth of the windows in both this pic and that of Hornby's. https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/wagons-coaches/passenger-coaches/sr-bulleid-59-coaches.html In both pics the level of the windows' bottom edge is the same in comparison with that of the doors. Also the doors' stops are mounted on the beading when this is in the horizon position. Edited May 26, 2019 by Ceptic Additional evidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted May 24, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, Ceptic said: Smaller windows because of the beading ??. This is the first time I've heard of this ! Also the outer Vee hangers are still shown as being outside the truss angles. They were inside, as shown below. this ! An interesting picture as it would appear the corridor handrails are not chrome? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted May 25, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) On 24/05/2019 at 16:00, RFS said: An interesting picture as it would appear the corridor handrails are not chrome? When was the picture taken though ? the coaches look to be Southern green, but the extra “S” would suggest this is in BR days. Was the chrome finish an “as built” luxury that faded away ? That said, the BR image, at the top of the page on Hornbys website make those handrails look shiny too. https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/wagons-coaches/passenger-coaches/sr-bulleid-59-coaches.html Either way, Ive touched the models in the flesh... This is by far a must have coach, silver or brown... they are whats been missing for years.. a decent Bulleid coach, even if its a short one. Edited May 25, 2019 by adb968008 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted May 26, 2019 Share Posted May 26, 2019 16 hours ago, adb968008 said: When was the picture taken though ? the coaches look to be Southern green, but the extra “S” would suggest this is in BR days. Was the chrome finish an “as built” luxury that faded away ? That said, the BR image, at the top of the page on Hornbys website make those handrails look shiny too. https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/wagons-coaches/passenger-coaches/sr-bulleid-59-coaches.html Either way, Ive touched the models in the flesh... This is by far a must have coach, silver or brown... they are whats been missing for years.. a decent Bulleid coach, even if its a short one. It appears (to my eyes at least) that in the early pictures, including the 'official' S.R. pics of these coaches, the hand rails are duller (wood ?). When pictured in B.R. Green the hand rails appear shiny (chrome). In the early years possibly due to post war austerity. Later upgraded when funds became available. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor7598 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 On 24/05/2019 at 12:38, Wickham Green said: Update on these coaches in the new 'Engine Shed' : https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/news/the-engine-shed/bulleid-59-usa-flying-scotsman-club-locos I wasn't aware that the B.R. addition of beading to the sides resulted in smaller windows - I hope they've got that right. I'm not sure where Hornby obtained this piece of nonsense from. The horizontal cover strip under the windows was added as the panel welds began to split. This did not involve any alterations to the window size. But full marks to Hornby for tooling the coaches as built, and then tooling for later bodyside mods. If Hornby ever produce a set in Blood and Custard, then the ' as built ' tooling should be used. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted May 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 27, 2019 On 20/05/2019 at 09:44, Right Away said: This picture has put me in a quandry! In terms of building up a set of coaches for my East Devon branch line, I needed a 3-set 'L' Bulleid set according to the carriage working notice. I had assumed that the relevant coaches were the Bachmann sets which they announced. However, it seems the 3-set 'L's were both 59' Bulleid stock and 63'! And this picture shows they were definitely in East Devon! But which to choose??? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) John. Find a picture with the Set number in the location you are modelling then check the size of coach from that number. If you don't have the Info for that, let me know the number and I'll check for you. Without being 100% certain I'd say east Devon was much more a 63' set area. Phil Edited May 27, 2019 by Mallard60022 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted May 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 27, 2019 Thanks Phil - it was the photo of the Radial dealing with the shortie main line set at Axminster which made me question myself! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted May 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) If Mike King's book 'An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches' is to be taken as a reasonably authoritative work on these Bulleids, and that Hornby would be expected to have it in their library, then maybe Hornby didn't read/look at it properly. While the drawing for the underframe on page 129 has the v hanger on the outside of the truss on the underframe, not one photograph in the illustrations shows that arrangement. Also, there appears to be no indication that the windows were made smaller, either in the pictures or the drawings. I can't really comment on the text as I haven't read it all through carefully, but when he mentions the later British Railways period, no mention is made of windows being resized, either the glass or the frame. So I'd be interested to know why Hornby thought the windows were smaller after the beading was added. Edit: Mike King's detail on these coaches in their later lives isn't that exhaustive, so it's entirely possible that a detail like a tiny change to the window aperture size could have been missed. Edit 2: Looking at pictures of earlier Maunsells in Mike King's book, it appears they had the outside truss v hanger, so if Hornby have kept their underframe from their earlier Maunsells, then maybe, as a cost effective way of getting these coaches done, they haven't modified the underframe to take account of this difference. Hopefully it's something we as modellers are capable of rectifying. Edited May 27, 2019 by Ian J. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor7598 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, JohnR said: This picture has put me in a quandry! In terms of building up a set of coaches for my East Devon branch line, I needed a 3-set 'L' Bulleid set according to the carriage working notice. I had assumed that the relevant coaches were the Bachmann sets which they announced. However, it seems the 3-set 'L's were both 59' Bulleid stock and 63'! And this picture shows they were definitely in East Devon! But which to choose??? I'm not entirely sure of my facts, but I think the reference to the 63' stock refers to the four sets that were built on 63' underframes in identical style to the 59' sets. The major difference being an extra 3rd class compartment in each coach. For coach diagramming purposes they may have each been classed as the same type irrespective of length. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 The samples on Engine shed look really good imho. Must have a rake, I think. The Hornby Maunsell coaches were very good, best detailed ones I've got, these look in same category. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted May 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 27, 2019 1 hour ago, trevor7598 said: I'm not entirely sure of my facts, but I think the reference to the 63' stock refers to the four sets that were built on 63' underframes in identical style to the 59' sets. The major difference being an extra 3rd class compartment in each coach. For coach diagramming purposes they may have each been classed as the same type irrespective of length. No, I am referring to the standard Bulleid coaches that wernt built on the Maunsell underframes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted May 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, JohnR said: This picture has put me in a quandry! In terms of building up a set of coaches for my East Devon branch line, I needed a 3-set 'L' Bulleid set according to the carriage working notice. I had assumed that the relevant coaches were the Bachmann sets which they announced. However, it seems the 3-set 'L's were both 59' Bulleid stock and 63'! And this picture shows they were definitely in East Devon! But which to choose??? I've just re-read the relevant section in Gould (Pages 6-7) headed "The 1945/6 3-coach Sets" and at no point does he refer to the 59-footers as "3-Sets L". First mention of that classification is on page 11, headed "Introduction of first 3-coach Sets L" which, to summarise, covers an announcement made in January 1947 to the effect that 24 such sets were under construction and that the first to enter traffic was numbered 771. My interpretation is that neither the "shortie" sets 963-980 nor the basically similar 63' sets 981-984 were classified as such. Indeed, there is mention of efforts being made to restrict both types to stopping services from as early as 1949. The later versions without compartment doors were to be favoured for more prestigious services, though I'd guess such good intentions probably wavered somewhat on Summer Saturdays. John Edited May 27, 2019 by Dunsignalling 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted May 27, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 27, 2019 This is from page 20 of the 1959 Carriage Working Notices. And here, from the Appendix to the 1960 notices, reference to 3-set (L) being used on through services to the East Devon branches. So they were certainly described as such by that point, even if not originally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 5 hours ago, trevor7598 said: I'm not sure where Hornby obtained this piece of nonsense from. The horizontal cover strip under the windows was added as the panel welds began to split. This did not involve any alterations to the window size. Elsewhere on the internet (Model Rail Forum) there is a posting from Adrian Swain, who has confirmed with Mike King that the corridor side windows were slightly shallower after the beading was added. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted May 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2019 4 hours ago, Ian J. said: If Mike King's book 'An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches' is to be taken as a reasonably authoritative work on these Bulleids, and that Hornby would be expected to have it in their library, then maybe Hornby didn't read/look at it properly. […] Also, there appears to be no indication that the windows were made smaller, either in the pictures or the drawings. I can't really comment on the text as I haven't read it all through carefully, but when he mentions the later British Railways period, no mention is made of windows being resized, either the glass or the frame. So I'd be interested to know why Hornby thought the windows were smaller after the beading was added. Edit: Mike King's detail on these coaches in their later lives isn't that exhaustive, so it's entirely possible that a detail like a tiny change to the window aperture size could have been missed. Would the SR/BR have countenanced two slightly different window pane sizes for the beaded and unbeaded coaches, meaning two sizes to be held as stock in depots? Could it have been that the raised beading was very slightly over the top of the window glass (creating a sort of lip) which made the window look slightly smaller without changing the size of the frame or pane? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevor7598 Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, DavidH said: Elsewhere on the internet (Model Rail Forum) there is a posting from Adrian Swain, who has confirmed with Mike King that the corridor side windows were slightly shallower after the beading was added. I find that very hard to believe. Think about the amount of work involved. How do you make a window shallower?. New glass , new sheeting around the window, new two part metal/rubber fixing to hold glass in place, alterations to interior wood work around window. I take my hat off to two very knowledgeable gentlemen, but on this occasion I think some proof is needed. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2019 Beading is below the window line and the windows retain their original size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidH Posted May 27, 2019 Share Posted May 27, 2019 But that's not the same type of coach 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 27, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 27, 2019 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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