Hornby - New tooling - 59' Bulleid 'Short' coaches

[Wickham Green]

26 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

 

I hear they are planning a rebuilt West Country in Maunsell Green 

To be honest Maunsell Green's a lot closer to the right colour than the 'pseudo malachite' that Wrenn put on some of their rebuilds ........................................... and if the National Railway Museum can put Maunsell-era lettering on a malachite green 'Nelson' .............................................. AAAAGH !

[No Decorum]

26 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

He mentioned the Short Bulleids entered service in the 30s - you'd think he would know his Maunsell from his Bulleid periods.

 

I hear they are planning a rebuilt West Country in Maunsell Green 

That sort of thing helps to explain the odd colour of my Lord Rodney. It would serve as well as an unsatisfactory rendering of Maunsell green as it does of BR green.

[Mallard60022]

23 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

Sounds like they're reintroducing something they know to be inaccurate .................. surely not something they'd want to shout about !

Could you elaborate please on what was wrong (inaccurate) with the Bulleid Range of SP kits as I have never seen a full kit one? I did have an all door 63' one with plastic, pre print coloured sides that were at the bottom of a SP storeroom box, made up with the spare SR/Bulleid parts still available. The printed colour green is awful compared to a decent SR green from (say), Railmatch?

Thanks,

Phil

Edited June 6, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Godfrey Glyn]

I do remember when these were first introduced, I think I was at a meeting at Keen House when this happened. At the time they were the only Bulleid coaches that were readily available and I bought quite  a few from Dave Cleal's Mainly Trains when he was still in Eastleigh. I found them very easy to build, they followed the structure of the old Triang/Hornby Mk I coaches and the early ones came with printed sides which you had to stick onto the clear plastic sides. Later they came already attached. SP used the same floor on the Mark Is which he brought out later but these had cut out printed side which gave more relief. Some people didn't like them because the method produced a much more flush glazed appearance - probably much more prototypic than other RTR coaches on the market at the time. Having just measured the bogie centre dimension it would appear that it is about 189mm, when they should be 186mm (46' 6").  He produced a huge range and I think its a great shame that he has not been able to upgrade them. I suspect that the long wait for Bachmann to do theirs has put him off investing in new tooling. Certainly the tooling was good for its time but they could have benefited from an upgrade and in my opinion would have sold. Whether sufficient to justify the investment is of course a different matter. Carefully weathered the originals pass the three foot test in my opinion but clearly they are not as good as a well made brass kit.

His website is certainly worth a look and he does produce quite a few unusual coaches and of course SR EMUs.

 

However, back to the Hornby versions, its great to see that they are on their way and I am looking forward to picking mine up from Alton in two weeks time.

 

all the best

 

Godfrey

Edited June 7, 2019 by Godfrey Glyn

[Wickham Green]

18 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Could you elaborate please on what was wrong (inaccurate) with the Bulleid Range of SP kits as I have never seen a full kit one? I did have an all door 63' one with plastic, pre print coloured sides that were at the bottom of a SP storeroom box, made up with the spare SR/Bulleid parts still available. The printed colour green is awful compared to a decent SR green from (say), Railmatch?

Thanks,

Phil

Sorry - should have emphasised "Sounds like they're reintroducing something they know to be inaccurate" ......... the shortcomings of the printing process that produce windows, door 'gaps', grap handles, hinges, etc almost completely flush with the bodyside are touched upon by Godfrey, above, but I wouldn't class them as 'inaccuracies' - maybe they're referring to the bogie centres error ?

[Phatbob]

Southern Pride kits with Bachmann bogies and Comet brass sides come-up lovely. :-)
Well, good enough for me anyway.
Far better than the existing Bachmann RTR ones anyway.
If the Hornby shorties are as good as their Maunsels, that'll do nicely too.

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, Phatbob said:

Southern Pride kits with Bachmann bogies and Comet brass sides come-up lovely. :-)
Well, good enough for me anyway.
Far better than the existing Bachmann RTR ones anyway.
If the Hornby shorties are as good as their Maunsels, that'll do nicely too.

I've yet to do that mix as ICBA to sort out the SP parts bar sides. I know that sound awful but I am not at the stage where I need to replace the Bachman (originals) at this time. Thanks for the tip though.

4 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

Sorry - should have emphasised "Sounds like they're reintroducing something they know to be inaccurate" ......... the shortcomings of the printing process that produce windows, door 'gaps', grap handles, hinges, etc almost completely flush with the bodyside are touched upon by Godfrey, above, but I wouldn't class them as 'inaccuracies' - maybe they're referring to the bogie centres error ?

No probs; I didn't realise there was a bogies center problem so that tip helps thanks. Yes, the printed sides are so 'flat'. If I were more certain about the decent paint finish I'd be doing as Phatbob does as the Comet (or Mousa and Worsley) sides are far superior and I enjoy soldering them up with the hinges, garbs and handles etc.

I always assumed that was why SP stopped their full Bulleid kit range as the brass sides available from Comet et al were superior. 

Cheers both,

Phil 

[Mallard60022]

18 hours ago, Godfrey Glyn said:

I do remember when these were first introduced, I think I was at a meeting at Keen House when this happened. At the time they were the only Bulleid coaches that were readily available and I bought quite  a few from Dave Cleal's Mainly Trains when he was still in Eastleigh. I found them very easy to build, they followed the structure of the old Triang/Hornby Mk I coaches and the early ones came with printed sides which you had to stick onto the clear plastic sides. Later they came already attached. SP used the same floor on the Mark Is which he brought out later but these had cut out printed side which gave more relief. Some people didn't like them because the method produced a much more flush glazed appearance - probably much more prototypic than other RTR coaches on the market at the time. Having just measured the bogie centre dimension it would appear that it is about 189mm, when they should be 186mm (46' 6").  He produced a huge range and I think its a great shame that he has not been able to upgrade them. I suspect that the long wait for Bachmann to do theirs has put him off investing in new tooling. Certainly the tooling was good for its time but they could have benefited from an upgrade and in my opinion would have sold. Whether sufficient to justify the investment is of course a different matter. Carefully weathered the originals pass the three foot test in my opinion but clearly they are not as good as a well made brass kit.

His website is certainly worth a look and he does produce quite a few unusual coaches and of course SR EMUs.

 

However, back to the Hornby versions, its great to see that they are on their way and I am looking forward to picking mine up from Alton in two weeks time.

 

all the best

 

Godfrey

I have several SP MK 1 Restaurant/Dining kits to provide my SR dining fleet. One is all plastic with printed sides and the rest are all plastic without the stick on sides and use the etched ones he produces that I rather like (the Etchmaster range.....excellent IMO.

So the new coaches  are about to appear then?

Phil

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Rails include the BR brakes and SR composites in their update for 'new arrivals for the week commencing 10th June 2019 through to 23rd June 2019.'

 

Interesting combination of availability! But soon!

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/groups/2733/new-Hornby-arrivals

[Godfrey Glyn]

6 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I have several SP MK 1 Restaurant/Dining kits to provide my SR dining fleet. One is all plastic with printed sides and the rest are all plastic without the stick on sides and use the etched ones he produces that I rather like (the Etchmaster range.....excellent IMO.

So the new coaches  are about to appear then?

Phil

 

Well Paul at Alton Model Centre told me that he had been advised by Hornby that some of the Bulleids will be arriving at the shop within the next two weeks. Looking at the Hornby website some are down for availability in June, the remainder in July so it may be that they are arriving in two separate deliveries from China. I got the impression from Paul that Hornby are pretty reliable when they inform their retailers of a two week notice of delivery. Other shops seem to be saying the same thing.

 

Re Southern Pride, I have also used brass sides on their carcass, and a southern region green livery makes that pretty easy thing to do. You could of course paint some Bulleid coach sides maroon, off the top of my head I can't remember which ones but some were sent to Scotland and repainted in Maroon.

 

I live in keen anticipation of the shorties!

 

all the best

 

Godfrey

[Mallard60022]

8 hours ago, Godfrey Glyn said:

 

Well Paul at Alton Model Centre told me that he had been advised by Hornby that some of the Bulleids will be arriving at the shop within the next two weeks. Looking at the Hornby website some are down for availability in June, the remainder in July so it may be that they are arriving in two separate deliveries from China. I got the impression from Paul that Hornby are pretty reliable when they inform their retailers of a two week notice of delivery. Other shops seem to be saying the same thing.

 

Re Southern Pride, I have also used brass sides on their carcass, and a southern region green livery makes that pretty easy thing to do. You could of course paint some Bulleid coach sides maroon, off the top of my head I can't remember which ones but some were sent to Scotland and repainted in Maroon.

 

I live in keen anticipation of the shorties!

 

all the best

 

Godfrey

Maroon ones were away from my area but thanks. Also my era ends 1964 except for Rule 1 occasions. May I ask which paint you use and how you apply it.

Many thanks for the info.

Phil

[SVR C & W]

19 hours ago, Torn-on-the-platform said:

Rails include the BR brakes and SR composites in their update for 'new arrivals for the week commencing 10th June 2019 through to 23rd June 2019.'

 

Interesting combination of availability! But soon!

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/groups/2733/new-Hornby-arrivals

At least it gives the wallet time to adjust between both BSKs and a CK in BR livery.

 

[Godfrey Glyn]

8 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Maroon ones were away from my area but thanks. Also my era ends 1964 except for Rule 1 occasions. May I ask which paint you use and how you apply it.

 Many thanks for the info.

Phil

 Hi Phil,

 

It is some years since I did some SP coaches with the brass sides. I seem to remember that I started by simply using a Railmatch spray can of Southern region coach green applied once the sides had been rolled to the correct profile. I then brush painted the inner sides with a thin coat of light cream before sticking them onto the clear plastic sides. I remember applying some very thin strips of sellotape to the sides of some to represent the beading that was applied later to cover the panel joints, that was done before I started to paint them and at the time I was quite pleased with the effect. I toyed with the idea of cutting into the plastic sides at points which correspond to the door windows to represent an open window but I chickened out on that one! I think they look very much better if you add the internal details rather than running them empty.

 

I have had a very swift skim through David Gould's book on the Bulleid SR Steam passenger Stock and cannot find a reference to which coaches were transferred away from the south. He does however state that the ones transferred to the Scottish and Eastern Regions lasted a year or so longer than the ones on the Southern which were finally withdrawn between October and December 1968. He has a photo of a lined maroon one, an open second, which was taken at Clapham (Yorkshire) on the 16th June 1968. According to him the Open Third 1482 went to the Bluebell Railway in maroon and ran for year in that livery. 

 

On page 74 of Roy Hobbs' book 'On Southern Lines' there is a colour photo of what looks like a Bulleid Brake Composite in maroon, coupled to a Thompson designed coach, emerging from Honiton Tunnel with an Unrebuilt West Country on 5 September 1964 up front. It would appear that maroon Bulleid coaches could be found all over the place!

 

I note from the Bachmann Times which arrived this morning that their longer versions are still at the Drawing Stage so I may very well reconsider the Southern Pride kits for a small batch of brass sided versions and see if they could be made to look good enough to run alongside the Hornby ones.

 

Hope that helps

 

all the best

 

Godfrey

 

 

 

 

[Brentor95]

I have seen a photo of a maroon Bulleid coach on the WR Plymouth - Launceston branch but can't place it at this time. There is another photo on the branch which included a 'chocolate and cream' Mk 1 coach; that I believe was taken by Peter Gray near Mary Tavy Halt.

[Mallard60022]

Actually, on reflection, I think I have a 1964 pic in one book with a Teddy Bear Tank (Standard 4 2.6.4.) with a Thompson Brake and a Maroon Bulleid Composite or Second, both looking ex works, somewhere in north Cornwall or possibly north west Devon. So, thanks for those mentions chaps. I wonder if that might be the pair emerging from Honiton Tunnel; might even be on the same day or they were borrowed if they were heading for Exeter? I like the Honiton Tunnel option. I shall try to seek a copy of that particular picture in the book mentioned by Godfrey (many thanks).

Ref the SP plastic sides; on a MK1 D25 Restaurant/Buffet I'm doing I have cut one of the SP Plastic Sides as I would a RTR donor coach sides, in that I have cut a rectangle out leaving a fairly wide base (about 5mm below the lowest window), a bit at the ends and a thin strip along what will be the roof edge of the brass side and that is a bit tricky to get right. It means I have to glaze that side as one would a conversion or kit build, but that is easy really once the side is painted and one can have open/semi open droplights if required. The other side is all 'white windows', bar one, it being the Kitchen side. I shall be fitting that side to an unsullied SP plastic side having applied the white paint to the plastic.

Phil

Edited June 8, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Wickham Green]

On 06/06/2019 at 15:14, woodenhead said:

I hear they are planning a rebuilt West Country in Maunsell Green 

..... well, if you can have a B.R. Standard 4 in Maunsell Green ........                  ( a.k.a. Spot the Difference )

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green said:

..... well, if you can have a B.R. Standard 4 in Maunsell Green ........                  ( a.k.a. Spot the Difference )

Ah but, yea but, no but....that's Mauledsell's unimproved Green.....honest!

Is that the old shed, or new shed, or whatever shed? I have not been down there for a couple of years?

P 

[phil-b259]

29 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Is that the old shed, or new shed, or whatever shed? I have not been down there for a couple of years?

 

The 1970s era running shed - but given a good clean and with an interactive educational facility installed at the station end (part of it can just be seen behind the E4).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-pKo8rZaK0

 

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green said:

..... well, if you can have a B.R. Standard 4 in Maunsell Green ........                  ( a.k.a. Spot the Difference )

 

 

Well back in the 1970s Hornby couldn't tell the difference!* If it was BR green it had Orange lining - if it was Mansell Green it got White lining.

 

 

(* in reality, obviously they could - but it wasn't worth the bother given the rather crude standard of RTR models at the time)

[Mallard60022]

8 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The 1970s era running shed - but given a good clean and with an interactive educational facility installed at the station end (part of it can just be seen behind the E4).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-pKo8rZaK0

 

Thanks Phil. That is an improvement.

P

[Bulleidboy100]

The new coaches have arrived and are in the post.

[ed 66 plant]

Thank you for the update--do you know if the delivery includes all coaches reqd. to make up the 4 sets?

Good news indeed for me.

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎08‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 06:57, Mallard60022 said:

Maroon ones were away from my area but thanks. Also my era ends 1964 except for Rule 1 occasions. May I ask which paint you use and how you apply it.

Many thanks for the info.

Phil

The Western region repainted a handful of (63') Bulleids in maroon after they took over the WoE at the end of 1962.

 

John

Edited June 18, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Wickham Green]

44 minutes ago, ed 66 plant said:

Thank you for the update--do you know if the delivery includes all coaches reqd. to make up the 4 sets?

Good news indeed for me.

"4 sets" ? ...... that's inflation - they only ever ran in 3-sets. ( until disbanded )

[ed 66 plant]

4 sets of 3 coaches per set.

Ed