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Hornby - New tooling - 59' Bulleid 'Short' coaches


Andy Y
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Well, everyone, I’m glad you found the photo’s of help. I think I’ll wait and see if Lazerglaze can produce packs of replacement glazing for these otherwise lovely carriages at some future date. That would also solve the corridor handrail finish too. (The handrails are printed onto the inside of the corridor glazing).

Today I have two photo’s of the way I’ve close coupled the, for now, two BTK’s. I’ve used, slightly adapted, Bachmann Mk1 carriage close coupling ‘bars’. All I’ve found that had to be done with them was to trim the ends by about 2mm, and remove the tiny ‘lugs’ on the sides of them (those lugs were preventing them from going all the way into the NEM pockets). 

The result is pretty good as I hope the photo’s will show. It did not take long to do, about five minutes in total. I’ve prepared a second coupler for when the BR CK becomes available.

E5ED2A16-399A-4B33-BB59-491E02D144FE.jpeg.5d008f3af0b9c726e616ee6b48776fc2.jpeg

 

D4FC9CB6-AB2C-4165-8D27-B9EB00D2D297.jpeg.c8d3778bb73d2ed3b336588f11425080.jpeg

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

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Thought it would be useful to show a comparison of the windows between these new Hornby ones and the older Bachmann ones, which of course do not have flush glazing. They don't look too bad in comparison, especially when they're both running round the layout. I think we're perhaps being a bit too critical - after all these droplight windows are very small! 

 

Bull1.jpg.449b1d375f8d91ceb4f8dbb9f9da90a3.jpg

 

As far as close coupling is concerned, the best way of doing it is with the genuine Roco coupling which is a shorter version of the ones supplied by Hornby. These cause the corridor connections to be touching on straight track. 

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Guest Jack Benson

Just waiting to hear from KMRC and as soon as they pitch up, I intend to give them a buff up with Autosol, if only to lose the dull finish.

 

Cheers

 

Jack

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4 hours ago, Market65 said:

Well, everyone, I’m glad you found the photo’s of help. I think I’ll wait and see if Lazerglaze can produce packs of replacement glazing for these otherwise lovely carriages at some future date. That would also solve the corridor handrail finish too. (The handrails are printed onto the inside of the corridor glazing).

Today I have two photo’s of the way I’ve close coupled the, for now, two BTK’s. I’ve used, slightly adapted, Bachmann Mk1 carriage close coupling ‘bars’. All I’ve found that had to be done with them was to trim the ends by about 2mm, and remove the tiny ‘lugs’ on the sides of them (those lugs were preventing them from going all the way into the NEM pockets). 

The result is pretty good as I hope the photo’s will show. It did not take long to do, about five minutes in total. I’ve prepared a second coupler for when the BR CK becomes available.

E5ED2A16-399A-4B33-BB59-491E02D144FE.jpeg.5d008f3af0b9c726e616ee6b48776fc2.jpeg

 

D4FC9CB6-AB2C-4165-8D27-B9EB00D2D297.jpeg.c8d3778bb73d2ed3b336588f11425080.jpeg

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

Both 'bags' (Vac / Steam pipes) should be crossed-over (L to R & R to L) to be 'absolutely' correct.

P.S.

Many thanks for your informative pics. Nice ones Rob.

Edited by Ceptic
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Going slightly off-topic for a moment, if a Laserglaze product does become available for these Hornby coaches, I would also like to try the same glazing in two Bulleid-style EMUs I have, a 2 HAL and a 2 HAP. The window sizes should, in theory, be the same, but it would also depend on the accuracy of the kit manufacturer's drawings and master model, and the resin casting process and any subsequent shrinkage. I really would like to get a flush glazed effect on these two EMUs, but baulked at cutting and curving all those windows myself.

In the meantime, I have a BR 3-set of the Hornby models on order from Rails, with the two BTKs now on their way to Oz. I did build a set of the Ian Kirk kits some years ago, but found the appearance very unsatisfactory due to the use of the Maunsell side profile rather than Bulleid's continuous curve from cant rail to solebar level.

Edited by SRman
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On 22/06/2019 at 06:58, Market65 said:

Hello  everyone. I bought the two following Bulleid BTK’s from Rails earlier today, R4888B, and R4888C. They are very good models, but I think the glazing is inset a bit much, as stated earlier, and is a little thick too. A couple of wonky steps, which I’ve straightened out, gives an impression of a rushed job to get them in the shops and sold. I’m considering options for the glazing. Maybe Lazerglaze if they release packs for these carriages.

Anyway, I’ve taken some photo’s.......

 

72803B6C-22B8-48AA-93CC-097DF8C82AB8.jpeg.f4964467587b3afd3f3ef7dbd5d0fcdd.jpeg

 

CF72653D-C6AF-44C9-8D7B-556A47419220.jpeg.7f14974b07d4268a4ec1846325793a74.jpeg

 

B2917CBB-DFD6-43DD-B343-1411D28512F0.jpeg.877bad59c0e374ed68338a267e63bfdd.jpeg

 

0B665959-6193-4A4A-9457-0D5DB3F80A63.jpeg.f8228af078296dbd5421defe9417019f.jpeg

 

FA14D813-DDF9-426F-AD55-94BB0B68EC52.jpeg.547d6ef06ed620c93bb058631197eff8.jpeg

 

6009B6DB-B036-4AF9-AD56-08686178F4C2.jpeg.10967de0a3dc03fb14858b3d6bdfc65e.jpeg

 

I hope the photo’s will help to clarify some things.

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

 

 

The door windows seem pretty accurate to this image posted earlier in the thread.

9CD5CFC0-355E-432C-AD8E-802AABD72867.jpeg

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16 hours ago, RFS said:

Thought it would be useful to show a comparison of the windows between these new Hornby ones and the older Bachmann ones, which of course do not have flush glazing. They don't look too bad in comparison, especially when they're both running round the layout. I think we're perhaps being a bit too critical - after all these droplight windows are very small! 

 

Bull1.jpg.449b1d375f8d91ceb4f8dbb9f9da90a3.jpg

 

As far as close coupling is concerned, the best way of doing it is with the genuine Roco coupling which is a shorter version of the ones supplied by Hornby. These cause the corridor connections to be touching on straight track. 

Please can you provide details of the Roco couplings that you are referring to. I have 24 inch radius curves on my layout. Would that be too tight for them? 

 

Thanks for your help.

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They are part number 40270 (2 pairs) or 40271 (25 pairs). Alternatively you can purchase them for £1.50 per pair from Keen Systems which is where I get them from. Scan down to Roco Auto Coupler. 

 

You should have no problem with 24-inch radius curves but do some testing, especially if you intend propelling the coaches. You can always have one coach with Roco and one with Hornby's longer version to provide a bit of extra clearance. 

Edited by RFS
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19 hours ago, RFS said:

Thought it would be useful to show a comparison of the windows between these new Hornby ones and the older Bachmann ones, which of course do not have flush glazing. They don't look too bad in comparison, especially when they're both running round the layout. I think we're perhaps being a bit too critical - after all these droplight windows are very small! 

 

Bull1.jpg.449b1d375f8d91ceb4f8dbb9f9da90a3.jpg

 

As far as close coupling is concerned, the best way of doing it is with the genuine Roco coupling which is a shorter version of the ones supplied by Hornby. These cause the corridor connections to be touching on straight track. 

 

The narrow top windows in the doors should be a lozenge shape. Bachmann’s look nothing like the originals - the Hornby ones are much better, although perhaps slightly too narrow.

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21 hours ago, gelboy45 said:

These do look superb.  As would a Bulleid 4 Sub like the one in the Hornby building!  Just saying........

 

Gerry

Keep saying it, Gerry.

A "Mary" would be ideal; but even a "Sheba" as Hornby already have the tooling for the cab front sheets.

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A quick question and apologies if this has been answered and apologies if this is a simple or idiot's question! As the brake coaches are not handed, which brake coach in each set has the corridor on the same side as the composite?

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38 minutes ago, ndg910 said:

A quick question and apologies if this has been answered and apologies if this is a simple or idiot's question! As the brake coaches are not handed, which brake coach in each set has the corridor on the same side as the composite?

However you put a set together, it will always appear as (L to R)

Compartment + Corridor + Corridor from one side and Compartment + Compartment + Corridor from the other.

 

i.e. because the vans are marshalled outmost, the compartment side of the left brake is always on show, along with the corridor side of the right brake. Turning the compo just reverses which side of the set is which visually.

 

If you mean which side of the lower-numbered brake matches the corresponding side of the compo, I've never seen it stated, so it may not have been laid down in the first place.

 

John

 

PS putting my old Kirk set together in the next room then coming in here to post, I initially got para 2 all A-about-F, but it's right now.:jester:  

Edited by Dunsignalling
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1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

.

If you mean which side of the lower-numbered brake matches the corresponding side of the compo, I've never seen it stated, so it may not have been laid down in the first place.

 

John

 

PS putting my old Kirk set together in the next room then coming in here to post, I initially got para 2 all A-about-F, but it's right now.:jester:  

Thanks. You were correct in what I was asking. Being GW orientated I didn’t want my inter regional train to look wrong by having the comp the wrong way round. I know it would niggle me if I hadn’t asked.

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On 06/06/2019 at 15:14, woodenhead said:

He mentioned the Short Bulleids entered service in the 30s - you'd think he would know his Maunsell from his Bulleid periods.

 

I hear they are planning a rebuilt West Country in Maunsell Green :o

 

 Wrenn got there before them. Malachite Green though. I think there was also a BR Blue version.

 

https://wrennmodelrailways.com/wrenn-locomotives/rebuilt-bulleid-pacific-4-6-2/wrenn-lyme-regis-southern-21c109-4-6-2-rebuilt-bulleid-pacific-w2237.html

 

 

 

 

Jason

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46 minutes ago, ndg910 said:

Thanks. You were correct in what I was asking. Being GW orientated I didn’t want my inter regional train to look wrong by having the comp the wrong way round. I know it would niggle me if I hadn’t asked.

 

As far as I know only the GWR was mad enough* to continue to produce 'left handed' and 'right handed' coaching stock after WW1 - certainly they were the only one of the big 4 to do so.

 

* Jut as with models, making 'handed' versons of the real thing inolves more work for the designers, extra components, different prodution jigs, etc. Is not as though it made any real practical differance in servce did it.

Edited by phil-b259
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3 hours ago, Right Away said:

Keep saying it, Gerry.

A "Mary" would be ideal; but even a "Sheba" as Hornby already have the tooling for the cab front sheets.

 

Forgot about the Shebas !! Really cool,,,,,

 

Gerry

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2 hours ago, ndg910 said:

Thanks. You were correct in what I was asking. Being GW orientated I didn’t want my inter regional train to look wrong by having the comp the wrong way round. I know it would niggle me if I hadn’t asked.

There are a couple of pictures around of at least the Brake and Composite in a set and you could try to identify what side the Composite is showing. Then you would have confirmation of what you have to set up. The next picture you see will, of course, have the Compo the other way around!:swoon:

Phil

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2 hours ago, ndg910 said:

Thanks. You were correct in what I was asking. Being GW orientated I didn’t want my inter regional train to look wrong by having the comp the wrong way round. I know it would niggle me if I hadn’t asked.

In operational terms, it wouldn't have made any real difference so there wouldn't have been any imperative for the order to be consistent.

 

However, one can make a reasonable assumption that all coaches would have been constructed with the corridor on the same side, so one of each pair of brakes had to be turned before its set could be made up. Only if either the lower or higher numbered brake of each pair was always the one to be turned, would a de facto "policy" be created, either by accident or design.

 

That said, my normal viewing distance means I can't easily see individual coach numbers so I'll not let it bother me. It will be, after all, the work of a moment to turn the composite should evidence of a uniform pattern come to light.

 

John

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There was a convention on the SR as to which end of the composite was nearer the lower numbered brake, but I cannot remember it off the top of my head. The SEMG or Blood & Custard websites may be of help here. Personally I am not too bothered as the coach numbers are all but unreadable at normal viewing distances, especially while the trains are in motion. 

Come to think of it, some of my converted Bulleid coaches (with Comet sides) don't actually have coach numbers at all ... round tuits, and so on! :D

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I don't know if it helps, but the Maunsell three car sets that were 'replaced' by these Bulleid sets were marshalled in a particular way, as referenced in the following two posts in the Southern Maunsell Coaching Stock thread:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93720-southern-maunsell-coaching-stock-discussion/&do=findComment&comment=3400080

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93720-southern-maunsell-coaching-stock-discussion/&do=findComment&comment=3400236

Edited by Ian J.
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2 hours ago, Ian J. said:

I don't know if it helps, but the Maunsell three car sets that were 'replaced' by these Bulleid sets were marshalled in a particular way, as referenced in the following two posts in the Southern Maunsell Coaching Stock thread:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93720-southern-maunsell-coaching-stock-discussion/&do=findComment&comment=3400080

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/93720-southern-maunsell-coaching-stock-discussion/&do=findComment&comment=3400236


Thanks for that, Ian. I had in the back of my mind that the first class end of the compo went towards the lower-numbered brake coach, but I was at work and had no access to any of my usual reference materials, so preferred not to just guess; the links you provided confirmed my notion.

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19 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

As far as I know only the GWR was mad enough* to continue to produce 'left handed' and 'right handed' coaching stock after WW1 - certainly they were the only one of the big 4 to do so.

 

* Jut as with models, making 'handed' versons of the real thing inolves more work for the designers, extra components, different prodution jigs, etc. Is not as though it made any real practical differance in servce did it.

 

The GWR actually persisted with handed coaches - composites and brake thirds - until pretty late; around 1935 iirc. The Centenary stock were the last to feature handed diagrams - the D120 brake thirds were definitely handed. 

 

There does seem to be an ongoing half-truth/myth that the handed coaches were built so as to ensure that the corridor was always platform side as Paddington Platform 1 to ease with rush-hour and summer Saturday loadings... a justification which makes partial sense but doesn't seem compelling enough to add the commensurate costs to the coach building process!

 

CoY

 

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