Hornby - New tooling - 59' Bulleid 'Short' coaches

[Steamport Southport]

The "handed" coaches were built like that as they were meant to be kept in fixed sets. The non corridor side was meant to face South for enhanced viewing and daylight. The reason they started building Sunshine Stock.

 

Fixed sets was something all the British railways stopped apart from the Southern. It was only a few of the prestige trains that kept fixed sets on the other railways.

 

 

 

Jason

[Wickham Green]

15 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The "handed" coaches were built like that as they were meant to be kept in fixed sets. The non corridor side was meant to face South for enhanced viewing and daylight. The reason they started building Sunshine Stock.

 

Fixed sets was something all the British railways stopped apart from the Southern. It was only a few of the prestige trains that kept fixed sets on the other railways.

 

 

 

Jason

Even the southern weren't daft enough to build indivisible twelve-car sets - we've has to wait for Thameslink for that !

[Godfrey Glyn]

Well I managed to get over to Alton at lunchtime and pick up the first of my Bulleid 'shorties' from Paul. I must admit to being very impressed with them, they certainly live up to my expectations! I was particularly interested to see the photograph posted on the previous page by Hilux5972 which clearly shows that the glass was not flush and I think Hornby have got this feature correctly modelled. I hope these will be as popular as the Maunsell ones. Gould in his book ' Bulleid's SR Steam Passenger Stock' suggests that by the 1950s some sets had been painted in crimson lake and cream but that all were green again by 1960. It would be nice to see some in Crimson/Cream if it is possible to identify which were painted in that combination. Many thanks to those very much more knowledgeable than me for their contributions above, clearly it isn't just Bulleid tenders that are a minefield! I do hope Bachmann can pull their finger out, noting that their 64' versions are still only at the drawing stage. BTW Paul at Alton Model Centre seems to have a very good supply of the ones released by Hornby this week. Congratulations to Paul Isley and his team.

 

best wishes

 

Godfrey

 

 

Edited June 25, 2019 by Godfrey Glyn

[truffy]

18 minutes ago, Godfrey Glyn said:

by the 1950s some sets had been painted in crimson lake and cream but that all were green again by 1960. It would be nice to see some in Crimson/Cream if it is possible to identify which were painted in that combination.

If Bachmann are to be believed (and Graham Muspratt was involved, so they are) the later c/c coaches had 15" vents rather than the earlier 10" ones. So it might not be so easy as a simple repaint.

[Mallard60022]

A large supplier in Sheffield has sent me a Brake but then phoned to ask if it would be OK to hold on until both the other *Brake and the *Compo were in the store (for *Set 968). This is sensible as it saves them postage for the minimum cost of a phone call.

The one I have is superb on first inspection. 

Phil

[Mallard60022]

7 minutes ago, truffy said:

If Bachmann are to be believed (and Graham Muspratt was involved, so they are) the later c/c coaches had 15" vents rather than the earlier 10" ones. So it might not be so easy as a simple repaint.

I think Godfrey was talking about the 59' sets?

Phil

[Godfrey Glyn]

8 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I think Godfrey was talking about the 59' sets?

Phil

 

Yes indeed I was, thanks Mallard, I was trying to find any reference to the Crimson/Cream 59' Bulleid coaches in any other books but I think we are going to have to bow to the expertise of people like Mike King and Graham Muspratt (others are possibly available!).

 

all the best

 

Godfrey

[truffy]

38 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I think Godfrey was talking about the 59' sets?

Phil

Oh, b****r, so he was! 

[Ian J.]

I've just received my Brake Ends, and the glazing looks better in the flesh than photos, which are doing it an injustice.

 

However, while the prototype glazing wasn't entirely flush, it was almost so, and shaped to the side of the coach. Hornby's glazing isn't curved to the coach side shape, and shows its mould shape at the edges, something that on these coaches in particular is somewhat apparent. It goes to be said that the moulding shape is visible on all their other coaches (and for that matter Bachmann's as well), though to a lesser apparent extent.

 

So, if someone like Shawplan do eventually do an aftermarket replacement, I'll certainly be looking at it as a possible upgrade, even if they can't get it curved to the bodyside shape.

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, truffy said:

Oh, b****r, so he was! 

I do that all the time truffy and then see what I've done too late. I call it Brain fog and it is actually a symptom of Coeliac Disease and in my case, enhanced by being knackered most of the time.

Ref the coaches, I shall see what they look like under the carp lighting and the at least 3' test of my loft layout. I love kit coaches and very much enjoy never finishing ones I almost build, however when we can get a fully finished items like this, for less than the cost of a kit, I am sorry but I am just going to open the bl##dy box. 

Hoorah!

Philth

[RFS]

3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

A large supplier in Sheffield has sent me a Brake but then phoned to ask if it would be OK to hold on until both the other *Brake and the *Compo were in the store (for *Set 968). This is sensible as it saves them postage for the minimum cost of a phone call.

The one I have is superb on first inspection. 

Phil

 

Got the same phone call and did the same. However, noticed they'd billed my credit card for said brake and one of the compos.  As they're likely to be coming in a few weeks anyway I'm not too bothered. 

[Robin Brasher]

Perhaps it would have been better if Hornby had sold the 59' Bulleid coaches in sets of three as most people would want to purchase a rake of three coaches.  My local shop at Swanage Station has sold out of the BR brakes and I bought there last R4882 Southern composite number 5711 from Set 965. I don't think that the 59' Bulleid coaches ever reached Swanage but a set of three coaches looks good on a small Southern layout.

 

I enclose some pictures to compare the shades of green Hornby have used for the Bulleid Southern 59' coaches, the Maunsell Southern coaches, the old Southern coach and a Bulleid Pacific. They are all different colours but they should all be the same colour. I think that the new Bulleid coaches are the correct shade and it will be interesting to compare the shade with the Southern coaches on the Isle of Wight steam railway and the Bluebell line and some parcels vans on the Swanage Railway.

 

One problem with these new coaches is how to get rid of the old coaches. I paid £14.50 for my R4009C old Southern coach. After trying to sell them at a three day exhibition I sold them to a dealer for £5 each. He said they will be hard to sell but someone will buy them eventually. The new coaches are a huge improvement.

[truffy]

9 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I enclose some pictures to compare the shades of green Hornby have used for the Bulleid Southern 59' coaches, the Maunsell Southern coaches, the old Southern coach and a Bulleid Pacific. They are all different colours but they should all be the same colour.

The Bulleid and Maunsell look pretty close in colour IMO, within the limitations of aging and batch variation. But that third one, oh boy!

 

The one thing that bothers me about the Bulleids is the apparent 'lensing' of the glass towards the door frame. I get that this is an attempt to make it flush, but it stands out. Possibly just the lighting (not a criticism of your photo, others have already shown it).

[Robin Brasher]

Yes there is a prism effect in the Hornby Bulleid's glazing and I thought that Hornby had overcome this problem. I noticed that there were only two no smoking compartments in the carriage which brings back memories of passive smoking on train journeys in the 1950s. Times have changed. I thought that in Southern days the smoking compartments had red lozenge smoking signs and the non-smoking compartments had green lozenge non-smoking signs. I thought that the triangular signs only came in under British Railways. I think the detailing of the coach is superb. I can almost lower the window and undo the handle to get off the train in comparison to pulling a strap on the Maunsell coaches. I notice that the first class seats are blue and the third class seats are red.

 

I have not seen any magazine reviews of the Hornby Bulleid coaches yet. Perhaps we need to wait for the August editions.

[Ian Hargrave]

24 minutes ago, truffy said:

The Bulleid and Maunsell look pretty close in colour IMO, within the limitations of aging and batch variation. But that third one, oh boy!

 

The one thing that bothers me about the Bulleids is the apparent 'lensing' of the glass towards the door frame. I get that this is an attempt to make it flush, but it stands out. Possibly just the lighting (not a criticism of your photo, others have already shown it).

 

The eternal problem with rtr Bulleid stock.True flush fitting glazing would probably make it at a cost beyond most pockets.An opportunity for after market accessories and modelling for those with nimble fingers and laser eyesight.Until then.....or until and whenever.....Bachmann produce something superior this is what you get.

 

Don’t hold your breath

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[truffy]

2 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Until then.....or until and whenever.....Bachmann produce something superior this is what you get.

 

Don’t hold your breath

H2 preorderer, present and correct, sah!

 

Yeah, I'm aware of Bachmann's timeline issues. It's like getting my management to make a decision and stick to it.

 

So, go with Hornby, and live with the lensing (or an A/M update). Or wait for Bachmann, which may or may not be better/worse, and potentially miss out on the Hornby.

 

I'm really only after something to go behind the KMRC Bulleid diesel, short/long doesn't bother me too much. I guess the one advantage of blue, should I live that long, is that they are producing 10"/15" green/c&c variants.

[Dunsignalling]

20 hours ago, truffy said:

If Bachmann are to be believed (and Graham Muspratt was involved, so they are) the later c/c coaches had 15" vents rather than the earlier 10" ones. So it might not be so easy as a simple repaint.

Only BR-built 63' Bulleids had 15" vents, so there's no potential issue with these Hornby models.

 

However, the 59-footers were only completed in 1946, and BR Southern Region were as notoriously "careful" with paint as their predecessor, I'd guess that very few of these sets ever saw Crimson/cream before Green was permitted again from 1956.

 

I'm fairly certain there was at least one, though, and I recall seeing a picture somewhere.

I've found the photo, a rather distant view showing a 3-set with the brakes in c/c and the compo green. However, inspected through the much better magnifying glass I use these days, I've concluded they look more like Maunsells. 

 

If I can find it, I'll post the set number if legible.

 

John

Edited June 26, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[truffy]

18 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Only BR-built 63' Bulleids had 15" vents, so there's no potential issue with these Hornby models.

 

However, the 59-footers were only completed in 1946, and BR Southern Region were as notoriously "careful" with paint as their predecessor, I'd guess that very few of these sets ever saw Crimson/cream before Green was permitted again from 1956. I'm fairly certain there was at least one, though, and I recall seeing a picture somewhere.

 

If I can find it, I'll post the set number if legible.

 

John

Thanks. But as Phil pointed out, I was confusing with blue's 63'ers.

[Wickham Green]

3 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

....... I thought that in Southern days the smoking compartments had red lozenge smoking signs and the non-smoking compartments had green lozenge non-smoking signs. I thought that the triangular signs only came in under British Railways. ......................

Originally, the Maunsell coaches followed pre-grouping practise and had etched 'SMOKING' lozenges on the appropriate windows - the coloured label Hornby used on their Maunsells / electrics / rebuilt LSWR coaches were introduced in the late thirties but were superseded by the red-on-black triangular 'NO SMOKING' labels before nationalisation ............... the familiar BR triangles are white-on-black and of a slightly different shape.

[RFS]

The BTF made a film called "Single Line Working" using the S&DJR as the location with station names changed. The passenger train used for the filming was Standard 4 75071 with what looks like set 972 which is in crimson and cream plus a Maunsell set also in crimson and cream. Footage begins about 26 minutes in and frustratingly you only get glimpses of the coaches...

 

It's on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F79R3Fg-pPY

[trevor7598]

Here is another example of Hornby's successful efforts with flush glazing, on their 2HAL.

And this model was produced in the ' Design clever ' era, I believe.

To my eyes, at least in photographs, the glazing on the Bulleids is unacceptable.

I'll reserve final judgement until my set arrives from Derails.

[Wickham Green]

41 minutes ago, trevor7598 said:

Here is another example of Hornby's successful efforts with flush glazing, on their 2HAL.

And this model was produced in the ' Design clever ' era, I believe.

To my eyes, at least in photographs, the glazing on the Bulleids is unacceptable.

I'll reserve final judgement until my set arrives from Derails.

............. but the handles on the Bulleids are better !

[trevor7598]

22 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

............. but the handles on the Bulleids are better !

I prefer handles that don't fall off ,or are very fragile and easily broken.

Moulded handles are not noticeable from several feet away when the train in running,

dodgy glazing is.

[Wickham Green]

I've never managed to loose a handle from any of my Maunsells ...................... obviously not trying hard enough !

[Steamport Southport]

Easily changed if you need. Roxey make them.

 

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/473/4a120-sr-maunsell-coach-grab-rails/

 

 

 

Jason