Hornby - New tooling - 59' Bulleid 'Short' coaches

[truffy]

7 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

The only problem with that option was Hattons wouldn't reserve stuff when it came in stock. Thus the potential existed for the items you wanted to sell out and none be available by the other bits you had ordered arrived from the manufacture.

I stand, or rather sit, corrected. Other retailers offer the option to wait until all items are in stock before sending, implication being (if not directly stated) that items in stock will be placed in reserve. I thought I recalled that Hattons did the same. Perhaps not, or ta least no longer. Boo Hattons!

[Big James]

I just ordered 2 BR brake thirds I’ll get the third coach as soon as it becomes available. I doubt any ever made it to my fictional marshlink branchline.  So I’ll use rule 1. But I bet they will look magnificent behind the Hornby H class. 

 

Big James

[ed 66 plant]

Big James --you will not be disappointed my friend --I picked my two BTK,s up from Rails today--excellent models.I await the Composite coach due by Sept. latest?

I am going to run my set 968 + PBV  on stopping trains --Soton /Bournemouth /Weymouth, Bournemouth --Salisbury and Bournemouth West  to Bath.

Well done Hornby.

I have fitted the shorter Roco style close couplers (40271) and these seem to be ok on my minimum 3 feet rad. curves-- strangely I had to use Roco and pair with the longer Hornby version on Maunsell coach couplings.

regards,

Ed

[RFS]

21 minutes ago, ed 66 plant said:

I have fitted the shorter Roco style close couplers (40271) and these seem to be ok on my minimum 3 feet rad. curves-- strangely I had to use Roco and pair with the longer Hornby version on Maunsell coach couplings.

 

 

I have quite a lot of the Maunsell coaches now, and they are all configured in sets. Internally coaches have the shorter Roco coupling on both coupled coaches even though my tightest curves are about 28 inches. So not sure why you found a problem.  Currently running my pair of brakes with a Maunsell composite temporarily to form a 3-car set - no problems with the shorter coupling.

 

Silly question, perhaps, but you have removed the corridor end covers from the Maunsells?

[bigherb]

15 hours ago, Big James said:

I just ordered 2 BR brake thirds I’ll get the third coach as soon as it becomes available. I doubt any ever made it to my fictional marshlink branchline.  So I’ll use rule 1. But I bet they will look magnificent behind the Hornby H class. 

 

Big James

They do.

[SRman]

I have been playing around with couplings on my set, with a temporary Maunsell composite in the centre until the proper Bulleid version arrives later. I tried the Hornby close couplings and the coaches were much too far apart for my liking. Next I tried the Bachmann rigid imitation pipes from their mark 1 coaches, and that was no better.

I don't have any Roco close couplings spare at present, although some are on the way from Modellbahnshop-lippe. So, I went for my more usual couplings for use within fixed formation sets, the good old Kadee. I tried #17s first (too short!), then #18s, which gave the best result, and matched what I already had on the Maunsell coach as well.


P_20190630_210026_vHDR_On by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr


P_20190630_210058_vHDR_On by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr

[RFS]

With the short Roco coupling on both coaches this is how they look on straight track. No problem going round 24" curves.

 

 

 

[Pteremy]

The sprung buffers must help. 

[ed 66 plant]

Robert/ RFS ---Your postscript ref. removal of corridor end covers is obviously relevant--I did not appreciate that they could be removed (easily).From early attempts to remove the board it appears as though the corridor connector wants to leave as one with it.I have done as you have done and temporarily inserted a Maunsell CK  between the 2 Bulleid BTK,s.

I have found that the Maunsell fits in with Roco short couplings  at  both ends--and with end boards still in place.

This too shows very little daylight between the corridor connectors.

I,ll look further into this with all Maunsell coach rakes-the key objectives being close coupling and ability to take the layout curves.

regards and thank you for your 2 pennoth,

Ed

[Wickham Green]

On 28/06/2019 at 13:53, Oldddudders said:

The Hornby malachite has long been under review for accuracy. A decade or so ago, 10800 of this parish published a pic showing it to be identical to Hornby BR( S) green, which was not what many wanted to see. 

 

Here is a pic showing a Hornby Bulleid next to a Derek Lawrence-made kit painted by Larry Goddard. The difference is clear. 

 

 

Here we go again ............Once upon a time - way back in the year of our Lord 1970 - there was produced a book called LSWR/SR Livery Register and it included a sample of a colour it called malachite green - and all the model paint manufacturers threw up their hand in glee saying 'yes, we now know what colour to put in our range' and they did so ......................................... but twenty years later the publishers of said document printed an addendum throwing more than a little doubt on the veracity of said colour sample as representing malachite green at all - and the paint manufacturers took not a blind bit of notice.

 

( Said publishers are currently working through various 'periods' of Southern livery but, unfortunately the 'grouping' period is not yet complete ............ the samples with the B.R.(S.R.)  volume should, though, be more reliable for comparison than any non-contemporary model, whatever it provenance.) 

[bigherb]

42 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

all the model paint manufacturers threw up their hand in glee saying 'yes, we now know what colour to put in our range' and they did so

 

 

Well nearly, all the malachite and southern region green colours from the model paint manufacturers, some sadly gone. which is correct?

[talisman56]

34 minutes ago, bigherb said:

Well nearly, all the malachite and southern region green colours from the model paint manufacturers, some sadly gone. which is correct?

 

All of them? It depends how fresh the paint is, which depot mixed it, the lighting, etc, etc, etc.....

[phil-b259]

On 28/06/2019 at 21:39, truffy said:

I stand, or rather sit, corrected. Other retailers offer the option to wait until all items are in stock before sending, implication being (if not directly stated) that items in stock will be placed in reserve. I thought I recalled that Hattons did the same. Perhaps not, or ta least no longer. Boo Hattons!

 

What some retailers* will do if you ask them is take payment immediately (thus securing your item) and the hold fire on posting it till the remainder comes in.

 

There are two caveats to this however:-

 

(1) if your item has a defect, you won’t find out for a while thus potentially meaning there won’t be a replacement available.

(2) We are talking a matter of weeks here, not months - the retailer won’t want paid for stock taking up space in their strore room for too long.

 

* Rails of Sheffield have done this for me in the past.

[phil-b259]

17 hours ago, ed 66 plant said:

Robert/ RFS ---Your postscript ref. removal of corridor end covers is obviously relevant--I did not appreciate that they could be removed (easily).From early attempts to remove the board it appears as though the corridor connector wants to leave as one with it.I have done as you have done and temporarily inserted a Maunsell CK  between the 2 Bulleid BTK,s.

I have found that the Maunsell fits in with Roco short couplings  at  both ends--and with end boards still in place.

This too shows very little daylight between the corridor connectors.

I,ll look further into this with all Maunsell coach rakes-the key objectives being close coupling and ability to take the layout curves.

regards and thank you for your 2 pennoth,

Ed

 

The Maunsell corridor connection covers are a clip fit - but can be a tight fit - so tight on one coach that the gangway started coming away from the coach during removal (though that’s probably due to insufficient glue being applied at the factory).

 

What you need is long finger nails - slip one behind the gangway cover and the gangway, then work it round the edge applying pressure. The gangway cover will start to flex and eventually it will unclip from the gangway.

 

I would certainly recommend removing the covers when using the close coupling mechanism and roco couplers as the gangway has a smooth face allowing each coach to slide as per the prototype. The gangway covers have some slight raised detail which could catch and produce a ‘notchy’ / wobble as the coach enters / leaves corners.

[ed 66 plant]

Phil---thank you for your comprehensive response--much appreciated.

Ed

[Robin Brasher]

In reply to Big Herb's post I think spoon 1 is malachite green and spoon 3 is BR SR green.

 

The BR brakes from set 968 seem to be selling best from Hattons with R4888 their 15th best seller and R4888A their 16th best seller.

 

The Swanage Railway shop has sold out of the BR brakes and R4882 the Southern malachite green composite.

 

I am waiting for all the coaches to come out before buying a complete set so if the brakes from Set 968 sell out I hope to buy Set 972. I don't think that the malachite green coaches will sell as well as the BR coaches so I should be able to buy Sets 965 or 973.

[truffy]

35 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I am waiting for all the coaches to come out before buying a complete set so if the brakes from Set 968 sell out I hope to buy Set 972. I don't think that the malachite green coaches will sell as well as the BR coaches so I should be able to buy Sets 965 or 973.

It seems pretty lame of Hornby to release these to the market at different times, or to not have some as boxed sets.

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎29‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 17:20, Big James said:

I just ordered 2 BR brake thirds I’ll get the third coach as soon as it becomes available. I doubt any ever made it to my fictional marshlink branchline.  So I’ll use rule 1. But I bet they will look magnificent behind the Hornby H class. 

 

Big James

Probably not, they spent most of their lives on ex-LSWR and S&DJR metals, though some migrated to the Oxted line in the sixties.

 

I do the converse with my Bachmann Birdcage set, which looks superb behind a T9.

 

John 

[Dunsignalling]

52 minutes ago, truffy said:

It seems pretty lame of Hornby to release these to the market at different times, or to not have some as boxed sets.

Very true, they ran for almost all their working lives as 3-sets, so why not sell them as a pack?

 

I thought it odd that Hornby packaged their first run of "Somerset & Dorset" Maunsells as a set but not the subsequent batch.

 

Bachmann sold their Birdcage 3-set individually too and the way Hornby sell their Brighton Belle is just bizarre.

 

In all those examples, I'd think a nice big sleeve should make a better eye-catcher in a shop display than just a few more standard size coach boxes added to the stack....

 

John

[Ceptic]

2 hours ago, bigherb said:

Well nearly, all the malachite and southern region green colours from the model paint manufacturers, some sadly gone. which is correct?

 According to my memory. 

 

Firstly, the obvious, being born in 1943, I have no memory of pre-war colours.

 

Of the richer coloured greens of the 'Southern's post-war years', I do.

 

If you're looking for post-WW2, LHCS / EMU S.R. Malachite*, then, none of these jog.

If you're looking for post-1956 B.R.(S) LHCS / EMU Green,  then,  maybe No.6 with a bluer tint, or a glossy No.8**.

 

The remainder would look better adorning a WW2 Allied fighting aircraft / vehicle and / or G.W.R. Loco / B.R. Loco / DMU.

 

 * Phoenix Paints are producing / have produced, over the years, one pre-WW2 S.R. Malachite Green, and three post-war variants, S.R.LHCS Malachite, S.R. EMU (Electric) Green and the post 1956 B.R.(S) Green colour.

      Having tried and tested all of these, the head-scratching  continues.

 

** Passenger coach sides are, in the majority of cases, always the shiniest part of any everyday UK railway train. Why not model / paint them as          such ?

 

 

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

The Maunsell corridor connection covers are a clip fit - but can be a tight fit - so tight on one coach that the gangway started coming away from the coach during removal (though that’s probably due to insufficient glue being applied at the factory).

 

What you need is long finger nails - slip one behind the gangway cover and the gangway, then work it round the edge applying pressure. The gangway cover will start to flex and eventually it will unclip from the gangway.

 

I would certainly recommend removing the covers when using the close coupling mechanism and roco couplers as the gangway has a smooth face allowing each coach to slide as per the prototype. The gangway covers have some slight raised detail which could catch and produce a ‘notchy’ / wobble as the coach enters / leaves corners.

The gangway cover issue doesn't seem to arise with the Bulleids - mine didn't come with any.

 

I've therefore added a couple of surplus ones from my fleet of Maunsells to the van ends.

 

John

[Steamport Southport]

If you want to know what colour Malachite was then look at 21C123 Blackmoor Vale. 

 

 

 

Jason

Edited July 1, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[Graham_Muz]

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

If you want to know what colour Malachite was then look at 21C123 Blackmoor Vale. 

 

 

 

Jason

Ignoring the fact that 21c123 was painted malachite during preservation so no guarantee of accuracy,  locomotives were not varnished so despite being technically the same colour it was visually different to the carriages that were varnished and therefore appeared darker even with just one initial coat of varnish.  

[phil-b259]

23 minutes ago, Graham_Muz said:

Ignoring the fact that 21c123 was painted malachite during preservation so no guarantee of accuracy,  locomotives were not varnished so despite being technically the same colour it was visually different to the carriages that were varnished and therefore appeared darker even with just one initial coat of varnish.  

 

Also folk shouldn't dismiss the effect the yellow 'go faster stripes' (to borrow a boy racer term) has on the green.

 

Just as scientific research has shown the size and colour of a dinner plate can radically alter how we perceive otherwise identical foodstuffs to taste*, or when presented with two squares of the same size one can look larger than the other due to the colours present, so it is that the Green on the loco will always look lighter thanks to those stripes.

 

*https://flavourjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2044-7248-2-27  https://www.livescience.com/17046-plate-color-flavor-psychology.html

Edited July 1, 2019 by phil-b259

[roythebus]

I'd say the definitive answer on paint shades could be Williamsons Paints up north. They've been providing transport paints for an awful long time now. I wanted some London transport bus red for a real Routemaster. They helpfully sent me 6 different shades of London bus red, 4 shades of chiswick cream for the interior, and 2 lots of Indian Red for the wheels.

 

People should realise that paint batches vary depending on the temperature, quality of the pigment, ageing, undercoat, how many top coats, varnish, preparation and light. 

 

I needed to match paint for my 1952 BEA coach and found some almost mint condition samples on bits of hidden panels. williamsons matched them to a tee.

 

But then what looks right on the real thing may not look right on a model. I suggest we stop arguing about the exact paint shade, it doesn't exist. enjoy your new models and be thankful you have them.