Hornby - New tooling - 59' Bulleid 'Short' coaches

[RFS]

25 minutes ago, Bulleidboy100 said:

Are the Roco couplings the same as the "close couplings" that come in a bag with Hornby coaches? They look the same.  I have used KD 18's at the end of my Maunsell rakes and loco tenders.

 

They're the same type but slightly shorter. With the genuine Roco couplings, these Bulleid (and Maunsell) coaches couple together with the corridor connections touching on straight track, but with Hornby's longer version there is always a gap. I have no problem with the Roco version on curves down to 24inch radius. If your curves are tighter you may be able to use one of each type on the connection.

 

The longer Hornby version is just right for the Bachmann MK1s.  

Edited July 19, 2019 by RFS

[ed 66 plant]

The Roco  (part 40271) are shorter and give an even closer coupling. You can couple them with the Hornby longer version if needed . I like both because they not only give a closer coupling ,they do not look and sound like a rake of loose coupled steam era wagons when moving off. They behave more like a coach rake.

Regards,

Ed

[Dunsignalling]

10 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

They're the same type but slightly shorter. With the genuine Roco couplings, these Bulleid (and Maunsell) coaches couple together with the corridor connections touching on straight track, but with Hornby's longer version there is always a gap. I have no problem with the Roco version on curves down to 24inch radius. If your curves are tighter you may be able to use one of each type on the connection.

 

The longer Hornby version is just right for the Bachmann MK1s.  

Don't worry about the shorter couplings not going round tighter curves, the links will just come out further to allow for it.

 

So long as they couple up when pushed together on straight track, there should be no problem.

 

I have come across some instances (Hornby LMS non-corridors is one) where I've needed to use one Roco and one Hornby to allow that.

 

John

Edited July 19, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[roythebus]

Going back to the colour shades, as a bit of an aside I'm currently repainting my 1954 Guy Special GS bus. It's maroon, a BS colour. It was last painted about 10 years ago. That has faded to a muddy brown. The latest maroon with the same BS number is a very rich maroon with a high gloss finish. the original maroon I used about 20 years ago was a lot brighter. All the tins are marked as the same BS541 maroon! (ot whatever the correct number is). 

 

So going back to my earlier post about colour matching, this proves what I said then.

[Dunsignalling]

3 minutes ago, roythebus said:

Going back to the colour shades, as a bit of an aside I'm currently repainting my 1954 Guy Special GS bus. It's maroon, a BS colour. It was last painted about 10 years ago. That has faded to a muddy brown. The latest maroon with the same BS number is a very rich maroon with a high gloss finish. the original maroon I used about 20 years ago was a lot brighter. All the tins are marked as the same BS541 maroon! (ot whatever the correct number is). 

 

So going back to my earlier post about colour matching, this proves what I said then.

Strange how things fade differently. I once had a Renault car that started off in a shade very close to maroon (that as used by Devon General, anyway).

 

The side regularly exposed to direct sunshine certainly changed over time, but rather than muddy brown, it went to a darkish pink.

 

I think the progressive replacement of toxic ingredients in paint with more benign compounds means that, even if a modern formulation starts off as a close match to one from the past, it will most certainly age differently.

 

John  

[RFS]

29 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

So long as they couple up when pushed together on straight track, there should be no problem.

 

With pairs of shorter Roco couplings these Bulleids and Maunsells do just about couple up on straight track when being pushed together. Occasionally they need a bit of jiggling, but I only use these couplings internally within sets so it's not a problem.

 

Different matter with the Bachmann MK1s when using Hornby's version of the Roco coupling: they don't couple up when pushed together, and you have to use a "shunter's pole" (aka a thin stick or screwdriver) to get them together. Once done, however, they work perfectly. Again I only use them within sets. 

[Robin Brasher]

In response to Dunsignalling's post according to page 38 of HMRS Livery Register no 3 LSWR and Southern malachite green was particularly long-wearing.  A 4 SUB motor coach was painted olive green and only twice subsequently until it was withdrawn in 1966. The first coats of malachite green were so resilient that they could be pared off with a knife without chipping.

 

On the preserved Swanage Railway using modern paint the colours deteriorate rapidly.  This is not helped by the absence of covered accommodation which is the Achilles heel of that railway. One grounded ex LSWR coach at Harmans Cross has kept its malachite green livery well but the Southern utility vans have faded badly. The coaches that are BR SR green do not seem to retain the colour well and seem to always be repainted.

 

This contrasts with my memories of the Southern Region electric trains which retained their BR SR green very well until they were repainted blue which faded very quickly.

 

At the meeting of the Wimborne Railway Society last night we thought that the shade of theBR SR Bulleid 59' coaches was too light.

 

[Bulleidboy100]

Thanks for the replies regarding the Hornby/Roco couplings.

[Wickham Green]

4 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 

Quite a while back they released 746 Pendragon in malachite. ...........

Unfortunately the earlier 'Arthurs', such as 746, had a Urie-nee-Drummond cab which was out of gauge for Central and Eastern Sections.

 

Hmm ... Paint Wars ! ........... there were a couple of guys promoting them in the High Street here a few days ago  ...... balls !

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, RFS said:

 

With pairs of shorter Roco couplings these Bulleids and Maunsells do just about couple up on straight track when being pushed together. Occasionally they need a bit of jiggling, but I only use these couplings internally within sets so it's not a problem.

 

Different matter with the Bachmann MK1s when using Hornby's version of the Roco coupling: they don't couple up when pushed together, and you have to use a "shunter's pole" (aka a thin stick or screwdriver) to get them together. Once done, however, they work perfectly. Again I only use them within sets. 

The requirement to jiggle seems to disappear once the Roco couplers wear in a bit. I've had a couple that needed it when first fitted but are OK now.

 

On older Bachmann Mk.1s, I found that, by sanding down the ends of the gangways a little, most tended to couple up OK without further "persuasion".

 

John

[Kirby Uncoupler]

Hi Everyone,

       Bought a BR Composite this afternoon in an overseas shop, which completes my 3-car set.

Very pleased, it looks very smart, but be careful to get the correct one for each particular set. They 

should be available everywhere this weekend.

                                                    Cheers, Brian.

 

[Kirby Uncoupler]

To explain, I bought the above composite coach from the excellent "Upstairs, Downstairs" model shop in Sandown, Isle Of Wight. Well that's overseas innit?      BK     

[Bulleidboy100]

I think it's been posted before, but the two BR sets are made up as follows:

 

Set 968 - R4886, R4888 and R4888A

Set 972 - R4886A, R4888B and R4888C

[Robin Brasher]

21 hours ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

Hi Everyone,

       Bought a BR Composite this afternoon in an overseas shop, which completes my 3-car set.

Very pleased, it looks very smart, but be careful to get the correct one for each particular set. They 

should be available everywhere this weekend.

                                                    Cheers, Brian.

BR Composites  and Southern brakes have arrived at Kernow but not at Hattons nor Rails nor my local shop. Pleased to see that they are available at Hornby and in Isle of Wight.

21 hours ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

 

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Robin Brasher
Posted in error. Simply intented to reply without quoting entire post.

[Mallard60022]

On ‎19‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 11:34, Bulleidboy100 said:

Thanks for the replies regarding the Hornby/Roco couplings.  

http://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/40271roco-close-coupling-bulk-pack-of-50-nem362-55743-p.asp

Have you seen this 'bargain pack?

John, are these really worth using for rakes of Maunsells or Bulleids that may need to be set up into and broken up from rakes, rather than being left as train sets in Fiddle loops? ( I don't have a lot of fiddle room you see).

Apologies for slightly OT yet again everyone.

Phil

Edited July 21, 2019 by Mallard60022

[RFS]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Have you seen this 'bargain pack? http://www.aandhmodels.co.uk/40271roco-close-coupling-bulk-pack-of-50-nem362-55743-p.asp

John, are these really worth using for rakes of Maunsells or Bulleids that may need to be set up into and broken up from rakes, rather than being left as train sets in Fiddle loops? ( I don't have a lot of fiddle room you see).

Apologies for slightly OT yet again everyone.

Phil

 

As I mentioned on an earlier post, Keen Systems sell them at £1.50 per pair, which works out at £37.50 for a pack of 25 pairs. £1 cheaper than A&H but you only need to purchase what you need rather than a pack of 25. 

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, RFS said:

 

As I mentioned on an earlier post, Keen Systems sell them at £1.50 per pair, which works out at £37.50 for a pack of 25 pairs. £1 cheaper than A&H but you only need to purchase what you need rather than a pack of 25. 

Sorry, didn't see that bit.

 

P

[Robin Brasher]

Coming back to the supply of the Bulleid 59' coaches I am pleased to see that they have arrived at Hattons and Rails.

 

Unfortunately they have not yet arrived at my local model shop so I am faced with a dilemma.

 

Should I support my local shop by waiting until they arrive, if they do, and risk them selling out at Hattons, Kernow and Rails or should I order them by post now?

 

I think that the BR SR set 968 may sell out but I expect there will be a surplus of Southern sets.

 

I got caught out with the Maunsell pull push sets by waiting, they never materialised at my local shop and I had to wait two years before Hornby produced another batch.

[Phatbob]

2 hours ago, Robin Brasher said:

Coming back to the supply of the Bulleid 59' coaches I am pleased to see that they have arrived at Hattons and Rails.

 

Unfortunately they have not yet arrived at my local model shop so I am faced with a dilemma.

 

Should I support my local shop by waiting until they arrive, if they do, and risk them selling out at Hattons, Kernow and Rails or should I order them by post now?

 

I think that the BR SR set 968 may sell out but I expect there will be a surplus of Southern sets.

 

I got caught out with the Maunsell pull push sets by waiting, they never materialised at my local shop and I had to wait two years before Hornby produced another batch.

 

Support your local model shop!
Give them a ring, make sure what you're after is coming and ask them to reserve it for you.  Maybe even put down a deposit?
Then they'll still be there when you need them.

[Ceptic]

On 22/07/2019 at 14:58, Robin Brasher said:

Coming back to the supply of the Bulleid 59' coaches I am pleased to see that they have arrived at Hattons and Rails.

 

Unfortunately they have not yet arrived at my local model shop so I am faced with a dilemma.

 

Should I support my local shop by waiting until they arrive, if they do, and risk them selling out at Hattons, Kernow and Rails or should I order them by post now?

 

I think that the BR SR set 968 may sell out but I expect there will be a surplus of Southern sets.....Snip.

 

 I'm in the same boat. My local shop's expected delivery got misdirected to someplace oop nurth....Hmmmm.

[Robin Brasher]

I took Phatbob's advice and waited until the remaining Bulleids arrived at my local shop today. The coaches arrived this morning and by the time I came in at lunchtime most of them had been sold leaving the two brakes for set 965, set 973 and a brake and a composite for set 968. As I already had the composite for set 965 I bought the two Southern brakes.

 

Without the second brake for set 968 the brake and composite are not much use to me so I might as well have bought them by mail order when they first came out. I noticed that the BR SR and Southern coaches are the same colour. Perhaps the BR coaches are supposed to represent coaches in Southern livery that BR re-lettered. Hornby does describe them as era 4 (1948 - 1956) to go with cycling lion locomotives.

 

The picture shows a T9 with set 965 crossing Corfe Viaduct on the way from Salisbury to Swanage. I don't know if these sets made it to Swanage but the formation of this train was normally a T9 and three Bulleid coaches.

[RFS]

1 minute ago, Robin Brasher said:

 

 I noticed that the BR SR and Southern coaches are the same colour. Perhaps the BR coaches are supposed to represent coaches in Southern livery that BR re-lettered. Hornby does describe them as era 4 (1948 - 1956) to go with cycling lion locomotives.

 

Exactly the same with Hornby's BR and SR Maunsells - same green, just different lettering. Only the SR Olive Green coaches were different. 

[Dunsignalling]

24 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I took Phatbob's advice and waited until the remaining Bulleids arrived at my local shop today. The coaches arrived this morning and by the time I came in at lunchtime most of them had been sold leaving the two brakes for set 965, set 973 and a brake and a composite for set 968. As I already had the composite for set 965 I bought the two Southern brakes.

 

Without the second brake for set 968 the brake and composite are not much use to me so I might as well have bought them by mail order when they first came out. I noticed that the BR SR and Southern coaches are the same colour. Perhaps the BR coaches are supposed to represent coaches in Southern livery that BR re-lettered. Hornby does describe them as era 4 (1948 - 1956) to go with cycling lion locomotives.

 

The picture shows a T9 with set 965 crossing Corfe Viaduct on the way from Salisbury to Swanage. I don't know if these sets made it to Swanage but the formation of this train was normally a T9 and three Bulleid coaches.

I think the 59' Bulleids were largely confined to the West-of-England main line until the mid-1950s, when (presumably as a consequence of more Mk1s becoming available for longer distance services) they began to spread onto the Bournemouth/Weymouth route (and probably the Old Road from Salisbury, too). By extension, that probably included at least occasional visits to Swanage. A bit later again, they began to turn up on the Somerset & Dorset line.

 

After the WR takeover "down west" at the end of 1962, a few sets went to the Central Section, being used particularly on Oxted line services.

 

John  

Edited July 23, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Robin Brasher]

Comparison of BR SR Bulleid coaches by Bachmann and Hornby.  The bodies seem to be in a similar shade of green which may be correct for the Hornby version in Southern malachite green with BR lettering for the early 1950s but is not correct for the Bachmann version which came out after Nationalisation and would have been painted in the darker BR SR green in the mid 1950s.

 

The Hornby version looks much more sophisticated with the flush glazed windows and painted seats.

 

I like the dark grey roof on the Bachmann model. In service coach roofs became almost black from smoke and brake dust. One of my friends used to repaint the model coach roofs as soon as he bought them.

[Chuffed 1]

1 hour ago, Robin Brasher said:

Comparison of BR SR Bulleid coaches by Bachmann and Hornby.  The bodies seem to be in a similar shade of green which may be correct for the Hornby version in Southern malachite green with BR lettering for the early 1950s but is not correct for the Bachmann version which came out after Nationalisation and would have been painted in the darker BR SR green in the mid 1950s.

 

The Hornby version looks much more sophisticated with the flush glazed windows and painted seats.

 

I like the dark grey roof on the Bachmann model. In service coach roofs became almost black from smoke and brake dust. One of my friends used to repaint the model coach roofs as soon as he bought them.

 

The shorty 59' coaches were all built by the Southern, and excepting those repainted into crimson and cream would have been in malachite until receiving the later BR green. Many would have had Malachite re-varnished until (if at all) repainted in the early sixties.

 

On this and other threads regarding BR (SR) green, my theory is that when BR started repainting the crimson and cream coaches they used a darker green, the better to hide the contrasting previous shades. Having repainted a Hornby Maunsell from C&C into green, I can testify that the contrasting colours show through unless several coats of mid-green (for want of a better description) are used.

Much has been made of the 'unreliability' of colour photos, due to chromatic change, sunlight-and-shadow, etc., but a Colour Rail photo in the April 2017 Railway Modeller of a BR mogul at Wimborne shows the infrastructure green faded almost to grey, whilst the (scabby) driving end of a P-P set is clearly very similar to the Bachmann (later) and Precision Paints BR (SR) Coach Green.

 

It all depends what era you are wishing to model. In the mid-to-late fifties the Hornby colour scheme is spot on; for the early-to-mid sixties, there would be a preponderance of darker green. This is a subject largely undocumented.

 

 As an aside, on the internet there are pictures of copies of the colour OPC postcard of Class 73 Electro-Diesels E6003 & 4 at Eastleigh, presumably taken in August 1962, when the latter had just been completed. The livery is mid-green with a mid-grey band along the lower body.  However, on the actual postcard the lower colour is clearly the lime green as used on the Deltics and baby deltics, according with my memories of some of the first batch. Incidentally, behind the locos is a presumably recently repainted Maunsell coach in dark green.

 

It all depends on when your era is set.  1955 would be different to 1965.

Edited July 26, 2019 by Chuffed 1
punctuation!