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Hornby - New tooling - 59' Bulleid 'Short' coaches


Andy Y
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The loose brake composites were to diagram 2406 rather than 2405 as used in the 2 coach R Sets (as being produced by Bachmann). The interior was different on the loose coaches with the toilet located in the middle of the coach rather than the end.

 

edit just to say my post crossed with Tavy Man's above

 

Thanks Graham and Tavy Man, hopefully Bachmann will bring out the 2406 or maybe if its just the interior detail its something a bit of modelling can resolve with vent positions etc. were the windows the same position if toilet was moved?

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Thanks Graham and Tavy Man, hopefully Bachmann will bring out the 2406 or maybe if its just the interior detail its something a bit of modelling can resolve with vent positions etc. were the windows the same position if toilet was moved?

Sadly not. The 2405 config has the toilet betwen first and third class accommodation, the 2406 has the loo at the further end of the coach from the brake.

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Robert’s pic is very telling. Nearly 4 years after Nationalisation, how many coaches in that mainline train are in BR livery? I make it 3 out of 14. This supports everything we are told about Southern liveries in the 1950s - varnishing of green extended times before repaints. Only numbers and their location would have changed.

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The loose brake composites were to diagram 2406 rather than 2405 as used in the 2 coach R Sets (as being produced by Bachmann). The interior was different on the loose coaches with the toilet located in the middle of the coach rather than the end.

 

 

Though not a Southern/SR modeller myself, I recall that every time Bullied carriages are discussed in the modelling world, the single brake composites as used in the ACE are invariably the ones that everyone laments the manufacturers haven't produced - and it looks like here we go again!  Why do they keep missing this open goal?

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Robert’s pic is very telling. Nearly 4 years after Nationalisation, how many coaches in that mainline train are in BR livery? I make it 3 out of 14. This supports everything we are told about Southern liveries in the 1950s - varnishing of green extended times before repaints. Only numbers and their location would have changed.

And the only ones in crimson and cream are the three Mark Is that began life in that livery.

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Robert’s pic is very telling. Nearly 4 years after Nationalisation, how many coaches in that mainline train are in BR livery? I make it 3 out of 14. This supports everything we are told about Southern liveries in the 1950s - varnishing of green extended times before repaints. Only numbers and their location would have changed.

I remember travelling in Southern Green coaches when going on holiday to Swanage in 1953.

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Though not a Southern/SR modeller myself, I recall that every time Bullied carriages are discussed in the modelling world, the single brake composites as used in the ACE are invariably the ones that everyone laments the manufacturers haven't produced - and it looks like here we go again! Why do they keep missing this open goal?

Just for clarity the brake composites only apply to the 64ft versions not these 59ft versions that are the being produced by Hornby and the proper topic of this thread.

With respect to the 64ft versions just because a manufacturer did not include them in the initial announcement but opted to go for versions to make correct full sets does not mean they are not aware of the loose version for the future. Sometimes we just have to be patient rather than expect everything in one go ( it’s taken many months? conversations, planning, justification and research to get to what we have announced by all involved to date)

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Just for clarity the brake composites only apply to the 64ft versions not these 59ft versions that are the being produced by Hornby and the proper topic of this thread.

With respect to the 64ft versions just because a manufacturer did not include them in the initial announcement but opted to go for versions to make correct full sets does not mean they are not aware of the loose version for the future. Sometimes we just have to be patient rather than expect everything in one go ( it’s taken many months? conversations, planning, justification and research to get to what we have announced by all involved to date)

 

It is great that the 59ft versions will be made as I had always expected to be building these from kit. I was over the moon with hornbys announcement. 

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Looks like they've got some sort of lettering on the waist - so probably Dining Third / Kitchen / Dining First or vice-versa : I think the Southern only had one of each. 

Correct Wickham Green.  The Southern Region had just one of those 3 car MK1 dining sets - it consisted of D .36 RFO S 9 + D .700 RK S 80009 + D .56 RTO/RSO S 1006.  It was issued to them for the Royal Wessex train (one of the "Festival of Britain" trains) - but didn't stay in that train for long.

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I'm not convinced by your 'hint' of single batteries : each should be larger than half the early-style battery so the RH support for the near one shouldn't be central .......... but I hope you're right !

 

........... and I hope they find some NO SMOKING stickers for the appropriate windows. 

 On the prototype, the battery box cradle was hung at it's RH / inner end from the centre underframe cross member, thus the bolts would be on the centre-line. Note the Vee hangers are inboard of the U/f Truss angle, unlike those of the Maunsell P/P Driving Trailers.

 

post-7009-0-98258700-1547126298_thumb.jpg

 

This was drawn using measurements taken from BSK  Ex. S 2850 S whilst at Horsham yard in 1976.

The full drawings appeared in the MRConstructor Planbook No.1, published in 1983.

 

Regarding the 'No Smoking' triangles, these were only applied to the compartment quarter-lights, both inner and outer and not to the outer windows of the corridor.

 

HTH

Ceptic

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I remember travelling in Southern Green coaches when going on holiday to Swanage in 1953.

We might have been on the same train? Was it on a Saturday in August  - left at about 9/9.15am- got into Swanage at about 1.15pm? I was on that train every year from 1949 until 1960.  Always stayed at the Glenthorn Hotel in Ulwell Road.

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With the maunsell coaches helping lead into Hornby releasing the 2 Bil & 2 Hal what’s the chances that these Bullied coaches would help Hornby leading into the 4 Sub EMU.

 

Big James

 

 

We can but hope. Only two body mouldings required.

 

These early 59ft Bulleid coaches basically used the same underframes as the Maunsell ones, so it's very easy for Hornby as they do not need to make new designs.

 

The category 4-SUB covers a wide variety of different types, so it's hard to see what Hornby would pick. Have a browse through this Wikipedia page and you'll see what I mean!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4Sub

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The 3D print sample certainly suggests the former layout (twin batteries per side).

 

attachicon.gifpost-1-0-77279400-1545641091_thumb.jpg

 

Although, the CGI profiles hint at single batteries, diagonally opposed.

 

attachicon.gifpost-1-0-70047600-1545641328.jpg

 

Note also the different detailed sides for the two different eras. The latter having recessed door top-lights, differing commode handles and reinforcing beading over body panel joints.

If reproduced onto the models, it will be an astonishing attention to detail. Well done Hornby.

 

The 3D print samples are of the bodies only at this stage and simply sat on an available Maunsell underframe the differences with the battery boxes on the Bulleid versions are known and will be correct on the production models.

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They were frontline stock when built and certainly appeared in the ACE - there is a video of the ACE leaving Waterloo in SR days with two sets in the formation. Per Mike King by 1947 they were Waterloo-Salisbury and the Bournemouth-Weymouth line. As 64ft 6in stock came on stream they tended to be 'demoted' to main line stopping/semi-fast services. In Nov 1959 963-972 went to the S&D but returned to the SR proper for summer 1960 but from 1961 were allocated to the S&D for longer periods.

 

Chris KT

Interesting bit of continuity for the BR Southern liveried sets, as Hornby released models of the 3 coach set 399 before Christmas, in BR green livery. These are Maunsell low window stock, and according to a seperate post by Chris K-T were allocated to the S&D for the summers of 1959 to 1961, with the Bulleids replacing in the winter.

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This is great. Ideal for my Operation Build it layout that's coming this year. The 3D prints look like they are on Maunsell chassis. These give an idea of what they'll look like but lets wait for the decorated samples which should be wit us shortly to see what they'll be like/.

Edited by The Evil Bus Driver
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The April and May 2019 delivery estimates have now been restated as May and June respectively on the Hornby website and Facebook. It gives the wallet 4 or 5 weeks breathing space.

Martin

 

That sounds fast or optimistic, I would have thought we would be seeing decorated EPs at this moment if we were expecting delivery in June.

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